Budget N52 track/daily refresh build

[apexwerks]

Originally Posted by amg6975

This is not really true. The E9x rear hubs are 10mm narrower on either side and do help wheel fitment, and it is true that any E9x 335 wheel will clear the brakes but that does not mean they'll fit the E82 wheel wells. The E9x cars have a much lower offset.

Thanks- didn't realize that was the case. The stock offset for an E8x is 52 in the rear, it's 37 for an E9x. 10mm spacer puts you within 5mm... figured that would be close enough for clearance. Have you seen where E9x wheels will interfere?

[apexwerks]

Originally Posted by K9Leader

So, third time was the charm! Pulled the right wheel and fender liner and disconnected, cleaned the contacts, and reseated it making sure it was on completely (when I pulled it off, I could see that I had not plugged it all the way in). Reset the code and . . . success. Warning gone.

Awesome news! Glad to hear you figured it out the right way... I'll double-check mine next time I have the wheels off.

[apexwerks]

The "thunking" noise has been getting progressively worse. Initially, I was just hearing it when I was shifting, which made me think it was driveline related. But the noise was getting worse, and over time it started happening when hitting bumps or flexing the suspension. Thought I was saving money by using takeoffs from a friend's E93, but the noise was sounding more and more like a bad balljoint.

..and as long as I was doing it, might as well put M3 arms on there. FCP Euro had the full set to my door in 3 days.

Out with the old...



In with the new...



These TRW's aren't OE parts... they're BMW parts with the roundel ground off.



Getting her aligned tomorrow afternoon and we'll see if this did the trick. On the plus? side, I'm getting pretty good at taking control arms out. Had the whole job done in about an hour and a half.

[apexwerks]

Quick update here...

1. The M3 control arms are a no-brainer. It really wakes the steering up. It's amazing that little bit of camber can change the handling so much.

2. The thunking/knocking is still there. It's primarily happening when I shift, but occasionally if the suspension is flexed or I hit an odd bump. It's really hard to run down, because it's not a pattern I can tell... hard/sharp bumps are fine, but it's occasionally what feels like a small bump will generate a knock. It sounds like it's coming from my right front wheel area, but control arms, springs, struts, strut mounts, and motor mounts are all new. Maybe I have a strut mount in incorrectly? Or perhaps it could be a transmission mount or CSB?

I'm probably going to get an indy to help diagnose it rather than throw parts at it further.

[tracer bullet]

I've done suspensions on a bunch of cars but funny enough not our 1's. So this suggestion might not make any sense...

I had a persistent knock on an Eclipse that turned out to be the nut on the top of the strut shaft. I'd tightened it down, but - it wasn't threaded far enough from the factory. So where it met torque specs, it wasn't "tight" exactly as far as holding it to the car. It simply was that the nut had bottomed out on the threads that were available to it. Maybe there's a nut or bolt a little loose somewhere? Something that seems good but actually isn't?

I wonder if there's a way to find loose parts - maybe whack stuff with a plastic mallet and see if they move?

[djacinto]

Originally Posted by tracer bullet

I've done suspensions on a bunch of cars but funny enough not our 1's. So this suggestion might not make any sense...

I had a persistent knock on an Eclipse that turned out to be the nut on the top of the strut shaft. I'd tightened it down, but - it wasn't threaded far enough from the factory. So where it met torque specs, it wasn't "tight" exactly as far as holding it to the car. It simply was that the nut had bottomed out on the threads that were available to it. Maybe there's a nut or bolt a little loose somewhere? Something that seems good but actually isn't?

I wonder if there's a way to find loose parts - maybe whack stuff with a plastic mallet and see if they move?

I also find that coming back to the cars after a tough job (or just long) really opens our eyes.

Working with the vcg on my car and I realized in the morning I almost forgot to put the secondary air pump thing back on. It was there, just with no bolts holding it down!

But to apex's credit, he's absolutely locking this thing down. I hope it is something that simple but whatever it may be, I'm sure he'll find it.

For our sake when it's our turn!

[amg6975]

Originally Posted by apexwerks

Quick update here...

1. The M3 control arms are a no-brainer. It really wakes the steering up. It's amazing that little bit of camber can change the handling so much.

2. The thunking/knocking is still there. It's primarily happening when I shift, but occasionally if the suspension is flexed or I hit an odd bump. It's really hard to run down, because it's not a pattern I can tell... hard/sharp bumps are fine, but it's occasionally what feels like a small bump will generate a knock. It sounds like it's coming from my right front wheel area, but control arms, springs, struts, strut mounts, and motor mounts are all new. Maybe I have a strut mount in incorrectly? Or perhaps it could be a transmission mount or CSB?

I'm probably going to get an indy to help diagnose it rather than throw parts at it further.

You 100% sure you got the engine mount nuts/bolts all the way down? I had that happen once and caused a similar sound.

[apexwerks]

Originally Posted by amg6975

You 100% sure you got the engine mount nuts/bolts all the way down? I had that happen once and caused a similar sound.

Great question... yes, that was my first thought as well. I've double-checked and re-torqued all three bolts on both motor mounts, as well as all 6 mounting bolts for the subframe itself. All were torqued to spec.

Ideas I'm kicking around....

1. I got a bad motor mount? They're both new Beck/Arnley mounts, but it's not impossible that I could have gotten a bad one new out of the box.

2. Transmission mounts? Maybe by putting in new motor mounts and new diff/rear subframe bushings, I've exposed bad tranny mounts that weren't noticeable before.

[WrathOTM]

For the source of noise how about the guibo/u-joint? Or the center support bearing?

[apexwerks]

Originally Posted by WrathOTM

For the source of noise how about the guibo/u-joint? Or the center support bearing?

I'll double check them the next time the car is in the air. I don't get any noise loading/unloading the driveline with the clutch engaged, though. In first, clutch engaged, I can aggressively accelerate/decelerate and the driveline is silent. It's only on clutch in/clutch out and the odd bump. I'd think a bad guibo or CSB would make noise under load regardless of clutch position, but I'm totally open to the idea!

[hoki06]

Originally Posted by apexwerks

I'll double check them the next time the car is in the air. I don't get any noise loading/unloading the driveline with the clutch engaged, though. In first, clutch engaged, I can aggressively accelerate/decelerate and the driveline is silent. It's only on clutch in/clutch out and the odd bump. I'd think a bad guibo or CSB would make noise under load regardless of clutch position, but I'm totally open to the idea!

To me, that sounds like some sort of driveline or subframe mount. Double check everything is seated correctly and bolts torqued. Sounds like you've done a ton of this already.

I developed the habit during my racing days of using blue Loctite, torque to spec, and torque stripe on every suspension bolt. It makes pre-track inspections and visual checks quick and easy.

I'm a fan of this for torque stripping as it creates a bead of paint that is very easy to tell when the bolt moves.
https://www.amazon.com/DYKEM-Cross-C...1HC3QIGM/?th=1

[apexwerks]

Originally Posted by hoki06

To me, that sounds like some sort of driveline or subframe mount. Double check everything is seated correctly and bolts torqued. Sounds like you've done a ton of this already.

I developed the habit during my racing days of using blue Loctite, torque to spec, and torque stripe on every suspension bolt. It makes pre-track inspections and visual checks quick and easy.

I'm a fan of this for torque stripping as it creates a bead of paint that is very easy to tell when the bolt moves.
https://www.amazon.com/DYKEM-Cross-C...1HC3QIGM/?th=1

Thanks, Eric. I did some driving this morning and noticed it's really only when the car moves side-to-side or the clutch engages/disengages.... basically, if I hit a speed bump at an angle or coming into/out of driveways. That would certainly point to a mount somewhere, and a component rocking side to side that's not rocking front to back on direct bumps.

I've torqued and re-torqued so many things... your advice sounds wise. I need to do a guibo on the M3 this weekend, and then the E82 will be back up in the air and I'm checking/torquing everything again front to back. I might go ahead and do tranny mounts....

[apex_prd8r]

Originally Posted by apexwerks

Found a 3.73 from a 325i auto with under 100k miles on it for $100 locally. Degreased and power washed it, replaced the axle seals and the circlips, and used Permatex gray to re-seal the cover after checking out the gears.





And that's it for the rear end of the car... everything is back in, buttoned up and bled and she drives great. I have a few things to tweak, but all in all I'm really pleased with the results from the combination of bushings, shorter rear end and the sway bar.

I'm a bit surprised you didn't upgrade to an LSD while you were swapping out the diff. Other than the admittedly insane cost to add an LSD to these cars, do you have specific reason to avoid an LSD?

[apexwerks]

Originally Posted by apex_prd8r

I'm a bit surprised you didn't upgrade to an LSD while you were swapping out the diff. Other than the admittedly insane cost to add an LSD to these cars, do you have specific reason to avoid an LSD?

Just cost. The original intent was to keep this super low cost, but that's obviously not happening. I will eventually put an LSD in the car, and by doing the 3.73 swap I have my original pumpkin sitting in my garage ready to be sent off to Diffsonline.

[brake-fade]

Swaybar bushings or link would be my guess if not for the sound happening with clutch engagement or disengagement.

[apexwerks]

Originally Posted by tracer bullet

I've done suspensions on a bunch of cars but funny enough not our 1's. So this suggestion might not make any sense...

I had a persistent knock on an Eclipse that turned out to be the nut on the top of the strut shaft. I'd tightened it down, but - it wasn't threaded far enough from the factory. So where it met torque specs, it wasn't "tight" exactly as far as holding it to the car. It simply was that the nut had bottomed out on the threads that were available to it. Maybe there's a nut or bolt a little loose somewhere? Something that seems good but actually isn't?

I wonder if there's a way to find loose parts - maybe whack stuff with a plastic mallet and see if they move?

Well, sir, you get the gold medal today.

Short version: I seem to have had TWO different, but similar, noises. One is driveline and undiagnosed as of yet, but the other was a bad right strut mount.

Long version: I've been driving the car more regularly, and realized that the two noises were slightly different, and the noise on clutch engage/disengage was consistent but the noise on off-camber bumps was getting steadily worse. You could also start feeling something in the steering wheel when making sharp turns... it started sounding/feeling just like a strut mount gone bad.



Used a ratchet strap to suspend the strut so I could replace the mount without actually removing the strut from the knuckle.

The suspension sound is gone.

The clutch in/out noise is still there, but I don't see anything obviously wrong with the driveline. I'm thinking it's just the new subframe/diff bushings transmitting the clutch noise to the cabin, and nothing to worry about. Either way I'm going to put a few more thousand miles on it and if it doesn't change, not worry about it.

Really appreciate all the suggestions and help here... this is a really good community!

[apexwerks]

Quick update... it appears I have several different driveline noises. Most of them appear to be made much more noticeable by the diff/subframe bushings. The clutch in/out noise has been increasing, and I was able to get it up in the air today. Checked the driveline by moving the driveshaft back and forth and using a stethoscope, and the noise seemed to be coming from the rear end. Swapped the old diff back in, and 90% of the noise is gone.

[tracer bullet]

That sucks. That it's the replacement differential that is. Think you'll try to fix it, replace it, or forget about it? Or too early to say?

[apexwerks]

Originally Posted by tracer bullet

That sucks. That it's the replacement differential that is. Think you'll try to fix it, replace it, or forget about it? Or too early to say?

It is... it was a junkyard diff with about 90k on it, so I suppose I was rolling the dice. Just looks like there was lots of play in it. I think for right now, I'm just going to stick with the 3.23 and hold onto the junkyard diff as a core for an LSD at some point in the future.

For now, I'm mostly just trying to get everything buttoned up... I have a new project starting in a couple of weeks and need to have this car as a sorted daily for at least a few months.

Lessons learned from this experience.... I would not do the 95A subframe and diff bushings again. I was prepared for noise and vibration, figured I'd get more gear whine transmitted to the cabin. I did not think that every bit of driveline lash would be amplified... especially on a car with 120k miles on it, there's a lot of lash and thunking that is concealed by compliant bushings. Stiff springs + stiff bushings means every little noise gets to the cabin. Not such a big deal with a newer car, but 12 years and 120k miles means there's lots of noises to hear.

[AKA]

Super excited to say that this car is now sitting in my driveway in Massachusetts but unfortunately, I didn't get to purchase it right from Apexwerks.

I bought it sight-unseen from some corner lot in NC. I had a PPI done at Euromotion in Cary and they were enthusiastic.

So, to continue the car's story some info from the Carfax:

5/20/2022: Premier One Automotive (117,751)
-Clutch, flywheel, master, and slave cylinder replaced
-Transmission mount(s) replaced
6/02/2022: Johnson Lexus
-vehicle serviced (117,999)
6/14/2022: Johnson Lexus
-Rear differential replaced.
6/25/2022: Johnson Lexus
-vehicle serviced (117,999)
12/16/2022: Johnson Lexus
-vehicle sold at auction

FWIW, the only clunk I heard so far was resolved by removing two loose trunk struts that were banging around in the battery compartment.

apexwerks , did you trade it into the Lexus dealer or do you work there?

[K9Leader]

Originally Posted by AKA

Super excited to say that this car is now sitting in my driveway in Massachusetts but unfortunately, I didn't get to purchase it right from Apexwerks.

I bought it sight-unseen from some corner lot in NC. I had a PPI done at Euromotion in Cary and they were enthusiastic.

So, to continue the car's story some info from the Carfax:

5/20/2022: Premier One Automotive (117,751)
-Clutch, flywheel, master, and slave cylinder replaced
-Transmission mount(s) replaced
6/02/2022: Johnson Lexus
-vehicle serviced (117,999)
6/14/2022: Johnson Lexus
-Rear differential replaced.
6/25/2022: Johnson Lexus
-vehicle serviced (117,999)
12/16/2022: Johnson Lexus
-vehicle sold at auction

FWIW, the only clunk I heard so far was resolved by removing two loose trunk struts that were banging around in the battery compartment.

apexwerks , did you trade it into the Lexus dealer or do you work there?

I had been following Apexwerks build as I was/am also bringing a 128 back to its glory and found his info very helpful. I'm currently rebuilding 335i front brake calipers and 328 rears for my 128 and the information he posted has been very helpful. Props to him for his DIY powder coating. I'm just painting mine. After the brakes, the 3IM is next.





Unfortunately, he hasn't posted anything in over six months and stopped just before this car was, apparently, traded in to the Lexus dealer. Which is odd, considering it sounded as though he was planning to keep this car for a while. Ah well, circumstances and situations change, sometimes suddenly, so . . . something happened.

But, yeah, great that you have such detailed build information. These are such fun cars to drive - I drive mine so much that my wife says it has usurped my C5 Corvette in my heart and that my E91 DD is not really needed. I say there is room in every car guy's heart for more cars. Enjoy yours!

[AKA]

I found him over on an off roading forum (ih8mud.com).
I'd love to get in touch with him for a debrief but don't want to be too creepy in my online stalking.
It looks like he's knee deep in another project and also owns a new lexus, as well as his M3.
It looks like either he traded it in then Lexus decided to replace the clutch, transmission mounts, and diff, or he traded it in because it needed a clutch.
But I feel like if he needed a clutch, he had the know how to do it himself so I guess the latter? Regardless, he sold it right after his last post here but he's definitely alive and well.

If anyone knows him personally, send me a PM.