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      07-21-2019, 10:49 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by tranquility View Post
I don't get this move to rags, looks worse and for the Z4, the trunk is surprisingly smaller than the older version.
no f'n way

the trunk was useless in the hardtop Z4



the new has zero top up or down intrusion to the trunk... zero.

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      07-21-2019, 11:17 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Tuxedo View Post
no f'n way

the trunk was useless in the hardtop Z4



the new has zero top up or down intrusion to the trunk... zero.

Have you even seen both live? The new one is shallower and not as usable. Btw, what rag *has* trunk intrusions? That would be hilarious!

Disclaimer: I didn't measure it but eyeballed it. Still, it's laughable since it's a rag and still smaller for strange reason. Btw, ofc I'm comparing it w the old one w top up (old is bigger), w the old one's top down, *then* the sizes seem comparable and maybe the new one is bigger. Still, the new trunk's a joke. Makes me wonder why the heck is it so freaking small? A rag AND a crappier trunk? LMAO.

EDIT:
old top up 310l trunk space
down 130l
https://www.carbuyer.co.uk/reviews/b...1/practicality

new 281l
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/bmw/z4/practicality

In terms of usability, if you have stumpy widgets, I guess the new one is feasible (the shallow<height> dimension REALLY makes it seem much smaller and less practical), but if you have more reg proportioned luggage, etc, the old one's bigger and better dimensioned (ofc, w top up).

Last edited by tranquility; 07-21-2019 at 11:41 PM..
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      07-22-2019, 08:34 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by tranquility View Post

In terms of usability, if you have stumpy widgets, I guess the new one is feasible (the shallow<height> dimension REALLY makes it seem much smaller and less practical), but if you have more reg proportioned luggage, etc, the old one's bigger and better dimensioned (ofc, w top up).
I see your point-ish, I'm in BMW Sales and have sipped from the water cooler right next to the display Z4.

put 2 sets of golf clubs in the new one and 2 duffel or carry-on bags for couples weekend resort road-trip. Top down or up makes no difference. Impossible for the old and this is the reason for soft tops.
Challenge you to top down a new Z4 trip to Costco and fit bundles Bounty, Charmin and dishwasher & laundry soap, trash liners few other misc items and buy booze for the bet you'll lose if you don't think it'll fit.

Real world usage top down fun, trunk with zero intruding hinges, mechanics or partitions.

Last edited by Tuxedo; 07-22-2019 at 08:40 AM..
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      07-22-2019, 09:01 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuxedo View Post
I see your point-ish, I'm in BMW Sales and have sipped from the water cooler right next to the display Z4.

put 2 sets of golf clubs in the new one and 2 duffel or carry-on bags for couples weekend resort road-trip. Top down or up makes no difference. Impossible for the old and this is the reason for soft tops.
Challenge you to top down a new Z4 trip to Costco and fit bundles Bounty, Charmin and dishwasher & laundry soap, trash liners few other misc items and buy booze for the bet you'll lose if you don't think it'll fit.

Real world usage top down fun, trunk with zero intruding hinges, mechanics or partitions.
You're in BMW sales and didn't know the old one was bigger? Tsk tsk. jk

Ya, for sure, if you don't wanna worry about 'oh crap, will my top be up/down during my errand?', sure the new one is 'better' since there's no change. However, if we are talking about practicality (I know, a bit weird since it's a fun convertible car, *however* it is EXTREMELY practical for 2 ppl and I can personally vouch that), gotta go w the biggest size configuration and not only is the old one bigger, the dimensions are more usable. No one is putting a gun to my head saying top must be down always!!, esp if I'm making a Costco run or what have you lol.

I think there's no excuse that the rag's trunk is actually smaller than the old car, it's still laughable..where did all the saved space go???...that's the main pt of having a rag besides supposedly being lighter, cuz the trade-off is that it's not as good looking, secure, insulating, etc.
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      07-25-2019, 11:27 AM   #27
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The new Z4 has one of the largest trunks available; comparible with the Boxster's two and way bigger than an F type or an SLC/SLK (I've had both). The fact that the old Z4's trunk was marginally bigger (11%) doesn't make up for the fact that it is less than half as big with the top down. I don't know about you guys but I bought a convertible in order to drive with the top down and having to put it up just to get a decent amount of luggage stowed is a non-starter for me.

2 cents,
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      07-25-2019, 09:16 PM   #28
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It's almost as if the folks complaining about trunk space in a 2 seat sports car should've bought a Tahoe or Expedition instead given their requirements to store golf clubs, kitchen cabinets and tyrannosaur skulls in the trunk.

I had a hardtop Z4 and was disappointed with the replacement getting a soft top. But all this talk is pointless anyway after the C8 made the Z4 redundant, and guess what - the convertible gets a hard top.

Last edited by scoobysaurus; 07-25-2019 at 10:13 PM..
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      07-25-2019, 09:29 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by scoobysaurus View Post
It's almost as if the folks comparing about trunk space in a 2 seat sports car should've bought a Tahoe or Expedition instead given their requirements to store golf clubs, kitchen cabinets and tyrannosaur skulls in the trunk.

I had a hardtop Z4 and was disappointed with the replacement getting a soft top. But all this talk is pointless anyway after the C8 made the Z4 redundant, and guess what - the convertible gets a hard top.
T-Rex skulls? Username checks out

As a fan of the 4 seaters, I'm bummed out. Did sell the F82 M4, and may sell wife's 440i convertible to get them blended in an F83 before they disappear. The skulls will have to go in the X5.

Here is my pro/con list. Basically, if you're optimizing for weight or trunk space, you don't care about ragtop change, I would think. If you care about the other elements, this BMW choice sucks. What'd I miss?
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      07-25-2019, 10:06 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by BayAreaBimmers View Post
T-Rex skulls? Username checks out

As a fan of the 4 seaters, I'm bummed out. Did sell the F82 M4, and may sell wife's 440i convertible to get them blended in an F83 before they disappear. The skulls will have to go in the X5.

Here is my pro/con list. Basically, if you're optimizing for weight or trunk space, you don't care about ragtop change, I would think. If you care about the other elements, this BMW choice sucks. What'd I miss?
Haha yep I love dinosaurs.

I'd say your list is spot on and best of luck with the F83! Get one before they turn it into an abomination with a torque converter, 4wd and a tent instead of a roof.
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      07-26-2019, 12:00 AM   #31
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I'm also a dinosaur fan...they became great fuel haha

Being a Californian 3-person family, there's the requisite SUV for mom and baby (G05 X5), the fun, fast, weekend car (F83 M4) and dad's nostalgic "first love" - a 2001 E39 M5. Feels like a good use of my garage/driveway space to me.

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      07-26-2019, 10:42 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BayAreaBimmers View Post
T-Rex skulls? Username checks out

As a fan of the 4 seaters, I'm bummed out. Did sell the F82 M4, and may sell wife's 440i convertible to get them blended in an F83 before they disappear. The skulls will have to go in the X5.

Here is my pro/con list. Basically, if you're optimizing for weight or trunk space, you don't care about ragtop change, I would think. If you care about the other elements, this BMW choice sucks. What'd I miss?
Good point; as usual "best" depends on usage. For me, my Z4 is a summer only fun car and doesn't get daily driven. In our climate the roof it down almost always unless I happen to get caught in the rain. I also use the car for weekend or week long road trips. As such I consider the dynamic improvement of the weight loss and the trunk space to far outweigh the other items you mention......but I suspect if my car was a daily driver in a less 'vert friendly local, I'd think the opposite.

I can say that after owning both at the same time (My soft top F type and my hard retractable SLK) that I much prefer the soft top for what I do. I wouldn't have considered the Z4 if it was still a retractable hard top and would have gotten a boxster instead (you will never see a retractable HT on a Boxster as Porsche places too much value on weight and dynamics).

cheers,
Dave
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      07-26-2019, 11:54 AM   #33
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Convertible market has shrunk almost as much as manual market. I mean I know ICE is dying and everything, but it's still sad that anything fun in car world is on its way out. 4 pot X3 is the best selling BMW, whereas sport sedans, convertibles are almost endangered species at this point.
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      07-26-2019, 12:19 PM   #34
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There is not one good looking hard top convertible that I can think of outside of the Mercedes SL series... this is without a doubt a good decision.
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      07-26-2019, 12:32 PM   #35
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Quote:
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There is not one good looking hard top convertible that I can think of outside of the Mercedes SL series... this is without a doubt a good decision.
Whoa. Agree to disagree there. Ferrari 488 Spider is much better looking, if we're talking 2 seaters.

I get that the slanted lines of the coupe 4 series are generally regarded as "better looking" than the more bulbous F33/F83, but to flat out say they aren't good looking feels like fake news to me. Biased, as my wife owns one, but really don't see that. Do you feel like the soft top looks better, then?
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      07-26-2019, 12:33 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Cortexiphan View Post
Convertible market has shrunk almost as much as manual market. I mean I know ICE is dying and everything, but it's still sad that anything fun in car world is on its way out. 4 pot X3 is the best selling BMW, whereas sport sedans, convertibles are almost endangered species at this point.
It's true. Dying breed within a dying breed (Convertible 6MT M4? Must be nuts)
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      07-26-2019, 12:36 PM   #37
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
There is not one good looking hard top convertible that I can think of outside of the Mercedes SL series... this is without a doubt a good decision.
Whoa. Agree to disagree there. Ferrari 488 Spider is much better looking, if we're talking 2 seaters.

I get that the slanted lines of the coupe 4 series are generally regarded as "better looking" than the more bulbous F33/F83, but to flat out say they aren't good looking feels like fake news to me. Biased, as my wife owns one, but really don't see that. Do you feel like the soft top looks better, then?
Yes I do... please do not include 2 door exotics in the conversation where the weight penalty is negligable.
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      07-26-2019, 12:41 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BayAreaBimmers View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
There is not one good looking hard top convertible that I can think of outside of the Mercedes SL series... this is without a doubt a good decision.
Whoa. Agree to disagree there. Ferrari 488 Spider is much better looking, if we're talking 2 seaters.

I get that the slanted lines of the coupe 4 series are generally regarded as "better looking" than the more bulbous F33/F83, but to flat out say they aren't good looking feels like fake news to me. Biased, as my wife owns one, but really don't see that. Do you feel like the soft top looks better, then?
Yes I do... please do not include 2 door exotics in the conversation where the weight penalty is negligable.
Merely brought up because your comment was about looks and you used the SL (2 door, 2 seater) as reference. Obviously, looks are subjective, and you're entitled to your opinion.
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      07-26-2019, 12:46 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BayAreaBimmers View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
There is not one good looking hard top convertible that I can think of outside of the Mercedes SL series... this is without a doubt a good decision.
Whoa. Agree to disagree there. Ferrari 488 Spider is much better looking, if we're talking 2 seaters.

I get that the slanted lines of the coupe 4 series are generally regarded as "better looking" than the more bulbous F33/F83, but to flat out say they aren't good looking feels like fake news to me. Biased, as my wife owns one, but really don't see that. Do you feel like the soft top looks better, then?
Yes I do... please do not include 2 door exotics in the conversation where the weight penalty is negligable.
That's a pretty hot take. I only mentioned the 488 because you brought up another 2 door 2 seater as the "only good looking hardtop". Good news is, this is all subjective, and there's one less person in the market for what I want. HAGD man
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      07-26-2019, 12:50 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BayAreaBimmers View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BayAreaBimmers View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
There is not one good looking hard top convertible that I can think of outside of the Mercedes SL series... this is without a doubt a good decision.
Whoa. Agree to disagree there. Ferrari 488 Spider is much better looking, if we're talking 2 seaters.

I get that the slanted lines of the coupe 4 series are generally regarded as "better looking" than the more bulbous F33/F83, but to flat out say they aren't good looking feels like fake news to me. Biased, as my wife owns one, but really don't see that. Do you feel like the soft top looks better, then?
Yes I do... please do not include 2 door exotics in the conversation where the weight penalty is negligable.
That's a pretty hot take. I only mentioned the 488 because you brought up another 2 door 2 seater as the "only good looking hardtop". Good news is, this is all subjective, and there's one less person in the market for what I want. HAGD man
Again, BMW has one hardtop vert that I will say looks solid, the Z4... but again only because its small and the proportions are good.

The 4 series vert is almost offensively disproportional... The M4 even worse.... and they get a penalty of nearly 500 pounds lmao.
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      07-26-2019, 12:59 PM   #41
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Quote:
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There is not one good looking hard top convertible that I can think of outside of the Mercedes SL series... this is without a doubt a good decision.
Forums are always a great place to find people with completely opposite viewpoints.

I have never seen a rag top that I thought looked good. Hard tops verts just feel like the best of both worlds to me.

All that said, I'm not a vert guy, so whatever you guys are into is what I hope BMW keeps making.
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      07-26-2019, 02:14 PM   #42
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That's exactly why we should not sell our convertibles!
I love it that my car stands out in a sea of SUV's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortexiphan View Post
Convertible market has shrunk almost as much as manual market. I mean I know ICE is dying and everything, but it's still sad that anything fun in car world is on its way out. 4 pot X3 is the best selling BMW, whereas sport sedans, convertibles are almost endangered species at this point.
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      07-26-2019, 08:39 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soterios View Post
Forums are always a great place to find people with completely opposite viewpoints.

I have never seen a rag top that I thought looked good. Hard tops verts just feel like the best of both worlds to me.

All that said, I'm not a vert guy, so whatever you guys are into is what I hope BMW keeps making.
Agree wholeheartedly, that's the whole pt why they made hardtop verts. Rags are just an afterthought, like 'meh, we gotta make a cover for this car, so *poof*, have some fabric' lol.

That being said, ASAP makes some sense if it's true the wt penalty is 500lbs, that's just insane. Still, hardtop is better-looking, hard to see otherwise, metal vs a rag? Forget about it.

Anyway, I'm really a coupe guy, unless my next car has a carbon tub, then bring on the topless once more.
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      07-26-2019, 11:11 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tranquility View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soterios View Post
Forums are always a great place to find people with completely opposite viewpoints.

I have never seen a rag top that I thought looked good. Hard tops verts just feel like the best of both worlds to me.

All that said, I'm not a vert guy, so whatever you guys are into is what I hope BMW keeps making.
Agree wholeheartedly, that's the whole pt why they made hardtop verts. Rags are just an afterthought, like 'meh, we gotta make a cover for this car, so *poof*, have some fabric' lol.

That being said, ASAP makes some sense if it's true the wt penalty is 500lbs, that's just insane. Still, hardtop is better-looking, hard to see otherwise, metal vs a rag? Forget about it.

Anyway, I'm really a coupe guy, unless my next car has a carbon tub, then bring on the topless once more.
It is true — the 4 series hard top adds 510 pounds between the roof itself and the extra bracing.

I agree though - it feels much more like 2 cars in one. A stock M4 vert, even without a little work can still get you from 0-speeding ticket in a couple of clicks...almost no one would take one to a track day. Good mix of versatility, speed (yes, even fat it can still run), luxury, and refinement in my book
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