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      06-26-2019, 11:44 AM   #23
mindspin311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdb View Post
Mid pack was exciting as always. Well done McLaren! I hope it is a sign of things to come.
Is this what F1 has resorted to? Being excited about mid-pack battles of cars that will never contend for the win?

Not sure about you, but when I watch a race, I'm concerned about who wins, not who takes P13.
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      06-26-2019, 03:54 PM   #24
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I enjoy the sport. I want to see more teams competing for the win. McLaren is a team with the history, engineering skills, and determination to be one of them.

You can stare at the first 3 places if you like but in years like this you will quickly grow bored.
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      06-26-2019, 04:41 PM   #25
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I enjoy the sport. I want to see more teams competing for the win. McLaren is a team with the history, engineering skills, and determination to be one of them.

You can stare at the first 3 places if you like but in years like this you will quickly grow bored.
Exactly, and I don't understand how the die-hard F1 fans are OK with it. MB has essentially dominated since 2014. So why isn't the fanbase clamoring for change?
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      06-26-2019, 07:21 PM   #26
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Ferrari dominated for almost 10 years during the Schumacher era.

Red Bull dominated for 5 years just recently, giving Vettel his 4 WDC's.

Go back into history to find similar runs for Alfa Romeo, Auto Union, Lotus, Williams. Others I'm sure, those are just from quick recollection.
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      06-26-2019, 10:32 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdb View Post
Ferrari dominated for almost 10 years during the Schumacher era.

Red Bull dominated for 5 years just recently, giving Vettel his 4 WDC's.

Go back into history to find similar runs for Alfa Romeo, Auto Union, Lotus, Williams. Others I'm sure, those are just from quick recollection.
McLaren had a 4 year domination 88-91, combo of the best car and amazing driver lineup(Senna/Prost).

Most dominated season in history...1988. They won every race but 1(93.75%).
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      06-27-2019, 12:46 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mindspin311 View Post
Exactly, and I don't understand how the die-hard F1 fans are OK with it. MB has essentially dominated since 2014. So why isn't the fanbase clamoring for change?
Because many "fans" don't give a damn about or enjoy watching hard racing, unfortunately. These are the same people arguing that Vettel should've received the penalty for unsafe re-entry. They seem to want technology to win races in clean drama free fashion, rather than with the drivers pushing over-the-limit in battle.
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      06-27-2019, 03:56 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Bartledoo View Post
Because many "fans" don't give a damn about or enjoy watching hard racing, unfortunately. These are the same people arguing that Vettel should've received the penalty for unsafe re-entry. They seem to want technology to win races in clean drama free fashion, rather than with the drivers pushing over-the-limit in battle.

Spoken like someone who doesn't like LH. LH wins because he's plainly faster than every other driver on the grid.


I read somewhere else that they should have a race with all the drivers in a Merc.
Doesn't have to be a Merc. I'm sure Williams would take the money to build 20 cars to have all the drivers in equal machinery.


once WDC and WCC are decided, everyone drives a Williams. Williams gets money, other teams can start work on next years car.




If you ask me, there are 2 fundamental things wrong with F1 right now.
1) aero - can't follow close enough. I'm no aero guy but at the speeds F1 reaches, aero is important to not crash, so smaller cars, because they punch a smaller hole in the air.


2) tracks. Paul Ricard is a test track not a race track. they should race at tracks more like Spa. I also like the A1 ring (but too short), Nordschleife (too bumpy for f1), Laguna Seca. organic tracks have a flow that drivers can drive by feel.


and refuelling is not the answer.
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      06-27-2019, 06:50 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madmax240 View Post
Spoken like someone who doesn't like LH. LH wins because he's plainly faster than every other driver on the grid.


I read somewhere else that they should have a race with all the drivers in a Merc.
Doesn't have to be a Merc. I'm sure Williams would take the money to build 20 cars to have all the drivers in equal machinery.


once WDC and WCC are decided, everyone drives a Williams. Williams gets money, other teams can start work on next years car.



If you ask me, there are 2 fundamental things wrong with F1 right now.
1) aero - can't follow close enough. I'm no aero guy but at the speeds F1 reaches, aero is important to not crash, so smaller cars, because they punch a smaller hole in the air.


2) tracks. Paul Ricard is a test track not a race track. they should race at tracks more like Spa. I also like the A1 ring (but too short), Nordschleife (too bumpy for f1), Laguna Seca. organic tracks have a flow that drivers can drive by feel.


and refuelling is not the answer.
There should have been no penalty. I'm a fan of neither.

Track's aren't the problem.

No one will know if X guy is faster than Hamilton or Bottas because their car (Renault, Williams, etc.) are all trash compared to the MB.

Total downforce needs to be dropped by 50%. FIA needs to get a target number and tell the team they can't exceed it. Reduce aero grip will force a rise in mechanical grip, racing will return.

DRS is farce and a band aide for a problem they don't want to admit they have.
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      06-27-2019, 07:03 AM   #31
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You're asking for....

Quote:
Originally Posted by mindspin311 View Post
There should have been no penalty. I'm a fan of neither.

Track's aren't the problem.

No one will know if X guy is faster than Hamilton or Bottas because their car (Renault, Williams, etc.) are all trash compared to the MB.

Total downforce needs to be dropped by 50%. FIA needs to get a target number and tell the team they can't exceed it. Reduce aero grip will force a rise in mechanical grip, racing will return.

DRS is farce and a band aide for a problem they don't want to admit they have.
A specification-race series....perfectly equal aero packages, perfectly equal power units, perfectly equaly race team research and development, perfectly equal race team budgets.

If this is the plan, find another series to watch.

F1 is, and should always be THE premiere motorsport formulae with massive innovation at it's core.

As noted by multiple posts in this thread, F1 historically has had dominant teams that succeeded for periods of time.
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      06-27-2019, 07:11 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racerbruce View Post
A specification-race series....perfectly equal aero packages, perfectly equal power units, perfectly equaly race team research and development, perfectly equal race team budgets.

If this is the plan, find another series to watch.

F1 is, and should always be THE premiere motorsport formulae with massive innovation at it's core.

As noted by multiple posts in this thread, F1 historically has had dominant teams that succeeded for periods of time.
Then have fun complaining that it's boring and being excited about 2 guys battling for P17.

I never said anything about spec power units. I said reduce their dependence on aero. 2 cars cannot RACE each other closely because all of their grip goes away in dirty air. Most passes are just via DRS.

I'll go watch endurance racing where the margin of victory is less than a minute after 24hrs.
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      06-27-2019, 07:29 AM   #33
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Presumption....

Quote:
Originally Posted by mindspin311 View Post
Then have fun complaining that it's boring and being excited about 2 guys battling for P17.
Presumption that complaining F1 is boring is inaccurate.
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      06-27-2019, 10:28 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racerbruce View Post
F1 is, and should always be THE premiere motorsport formulae with massive innovation at it's core.
Some would argue that WEC cars have been kicking F1's technical a** over the past few years. Hybrids, diesels, Delta Wing, cornering speeds equal or superior to F1... a lot to say there.
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      06-27-2019, 10:52 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdb View Post
Some would argue that WEC cars have been kicking F1's technical a** over the past few years. Hybrids, diesels, Delta Wing, cornering speeds equal or superior to F1... a lot to say there.
Well said.
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      06-27-2019, 12:18 PM   #36
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Quote:
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Spoken like someone who doesn't like LH. LH wins because he's plainly faster than every other driver on the grid.
Agreed, LH appears to be the best out there right now. I would've been upset if the roles were reversed though. However, that's a pretty unlikely scenario because Lewis is so much less likely to slide off into the grass while Vettel is chasing him. Pressure has the opposite effect on him vs Vettel.

I will admit to rooting for the clearly human competitor (Vettel) because Hamilton is just a machine when it comes to racing, and the Ferraris are pretty in red.
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      06-28-2019, 12:19 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mindspin311 View Post
I'll go watch endurance racing where the margin of victory is less than a minute after 24hrs.
Fake racing made by BoP adjustments.
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      06-28-2019, 06:30 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartledoo View Post
Agreed, LH appears to be the best out there right now. I would've been upset if the roles were reversed though. However, that's a pretty unlikely scenario because Lewis is so much less likely to slide off into the grass while Vettel is chasing him. Pressure has the opposite effect on him vs Vettel.

I will admit to rooting for the clearly human competitor (Vettel) because Hamilton is just a machine when it comes to racing, and the Ferraris are pretty in red.

I don't mind Ferrari as a team. But if they do improve, I will also be looking to see LeClerc do well and win.
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      06-28-2019, 06:34 AM   #39
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Fake racing made by BoP adjustments.
Yep you got me. No penalty here though...

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      06-28-2019, 08:12 AM   #40
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Quote:
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Fake racing made by BoP adjustments.
As opposed to F1, where everyone builds to an extremely restrictive ruleset And the cars are virtually identical?

I wouldn't call it "fake racing", but yes the regs are used to tighten up the field. I don't see anything wrong with that.
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      06-28-2019, 11:02 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mindspin311 View Post
Yep you got me. No penalty here though...
2 wheel out of white line is not illegal + GT race rules are different than open wheel rules + F1 is muuuch faster, things get spicy much easier + stewards decisions can vary just like in football etc.. so next year same thing can happen and no one might get penalty for it..
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