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      05-13-2008, 10:08 PM   #1
pwillcutts
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Visa says Dealer has to accept my card as payment for my BMW. Anyone been told NO !?

I'm planning on paying for my car with a VISA card which offers me 0% interest for 12 months on new purchases.

On another thread we got into a discussion that Dealers won't accept VISA to pay for the whole car because they get hit with transaction fees from VISA.

Has anyone had a dealer refuse to accept a VISA card to pay for the whole car ? (not just the deposit) They may not like it, but they have to accept VISA as payment if they accept VISA cards at all (and who doesn't?).

At 0% for 12 months, paying by credit card saves me about $1,700 versus a $40,000 loan at 4.25%. Seems like the smart cash-management thing to do.:wink:

I did call Visa and they confirmed that the car dealer CANNOT refuse to accept a Visa card to pay for a car, and the dealer CANNOT place a Maximum (or minimum) Transaction amount limit per the "Rules for VISA Merchants":
http://usa.visa.com/download/merchan..._merchants.pdf
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      05-13-2008, 10:38 PM   #2
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I've had friends who paid for there house and cars with Amex just for the points and it has never been a problem. Like you said manager does not want to loose mone on the car.
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      05-14-2008, 12:38 AM   #3
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Most contracts to purchase a vehicle include HOW you will be paying. So even if at the last minute you tell them you tell them you will be paying 100% with Visa and inform them that they are required to accept your Visa they most likely will just not write up a contract to purchase... at least at the orally agreed upon price.
I doubt Visa would take any recourse against the dealer for refusing your business.

Also, do you really have a card with a 40K+ limit that will allow you to charge a single 40K transaction? Wow! I would think that transaction would get declined unless you have a history of high $ transactions on that card.
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      05-14-2008, 12:52 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1_UP View Post
Also, do you really have a card with a 40K+ limit that will allow you to charge a single 40K transaction? Wow! I would think that transaction would get declined unless you have a history of high $ transactions on that card.

40k limit isn't really hard to get nowadays, they offer it to anyone, probably even college kids :P
Also, if your card's limit will cover the price of your car, all you need is to call up VISA or whatever card you've and tell them you'll be making this purchase today or whatever, and tell them not to block it. It will work. I've tried it with my last purchase on a AMEX, not a BMW, but I think it doesn't matter what car you buy.
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      05-14-2008, 04:08 AM   #5
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I tried to do 10K, but they only let me do 2.5. Guess I should send them this link.

Similar experience at a different (non-BMW) when buying a car for my wife.
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      05-14-2008, 07:03 AM   #6
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The dealer is letting me charge $3000 on my amex. I'd like the points but I'm not going to fight it.
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      05-14-2008, 07:08 AM   #7
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I've tried to buy several cars on my Visa and the dealer has denied at the price we negotiated. They would have let me charge the car if I paid the 2% Visa charge that they would incur.
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      05-14-2008, 08:00 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kushalp View Post
I've tried to buy several cars on my Visa and the dealer has denied at the price we negotiated. They would have let me charge the car if I paid the 2% Visa charge that they would incur.

I agree...you can set a price and when its time to sign the papers the payment info will go on before all the contracts are signed...

if you try to pay completely with a CC they will just jack the price then.

So technically you can pay with a CC but IMO not at the price you think you are going to get.
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      05-14-2008, 10:13 AM   #9
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I put $3K on my Discover card (cash back!) when I bought my '99 M3. I had the cash anyway, but wanted the cash back since I was going to pay it off right away. I would have put more, but that dealer had a $3K limit for credit cards.
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      05-14-2008, 11:04 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckwheat986 View Post
I agree...you can set a price and when its time to sign the papers the payment info will go on before all the contracts are signed...

if you try to pay completely with a CC they will just jack the price then.

So technically you can pay with a CC but IMO not at the price you think you are going to get.
This is all in DIRECT VIOLATION of thier contract with VISA.

They might resist and threaten the buyer, but the Dealer knows that they have to accept the credit card.

You can't let the Dealer bully you into thinking he's right just because he "says so". Not accepting the credit-card as full payment is not an option for the dealer, his profit margins be damned: it is his obligation to accept the card whether he likes it or not!

Page 10 on that VISA Merchant Rules link state it very clearly:
http://usa.visa.com/download/merchan..._merchants.pdf

"No Surcharging": "Always treat VISA transactions like any other transaction;that is, you may not impose a surcharge on a VISA transaction. You may,however, offer a discount for cash transactions, provided that the offer is clearly disclosed to customers and the cash price is presented as a discount from the standard price charged for all other forms of payment"

"Convenience Fees": For merchants who offer an alternative payment channel for customers to pay for goods and services, a convenience fee may be added to the transaction amount.....<<BUT>>....the merchant MUST adhere to the following rules: THE FEE IS APPLIED ONLY TO NON FACE-TO-FACE TRANSACTIONS"

I have a signed contract already, and have paid $1,000 down already, but have not told the dealer yet that I'm using a credit card. If he doesn't like it, I'm handing him the 141-page VISA Merchant Rule book and getting VISA on the phone to enforce it.

Hey, the dealer could have offerred me more than $500 of MSRP but chose to make more profit off of me on my car, so I have every right to save $1,700 in interest expenses by paying by credit card !
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      05-14-2008, 11:11 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1_UP View Post
Most contracts to purchase a vehicle include HOW you will be paying. So even if at the last minute you tell them you tell them you will be paying 100% with Visa and inform them that they are required to accept your Visa they most likely will just not write up a contract to purchase... at least at the orally agreed upon price.
I doubt Visa would take any recourse against the dealer for refusing your business.

Also, do you really have a card with a 40K+ limit that will allow you to charge a single 40K transaction? Wow! I would think that transaction would get declined unless you have a history of high $ transactions on that card.
I've already alerted VISA to this possible siuation, and they are fully prepared to back me up and contact the Dealer to enforce thier contract with VISA to accept my card.

And yes, a $40k limit is not uncommon if you have good credit history, FICO scores, etc.

Let's not forget: people pay $50,000 tiution bills by credit card all the time. Why should the Dealer be able to act like a thug and deny us this right ?
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      05-14-2008, 11:11 AM   #12
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Technically, the dealer can't charge you a surcharge to use your card either. They can, however, offer a cash discount.

Many of the credit card rules/regulations are determined on exactly which cards a business accepts. If they accept Visa and Mastercard, then the same rules apply to Amex and Discover as well. Visa and Mastercard do not allow min/max transaction amounts, and they also forbid surcharges. (i.e., the local deli is also not allowed to tell you there is a $5 minimum or else they'll charge you a 50-cent fee - TOTALLY not within the Visa/MC regulations).

In most cases, you can spook a vendor by asking to see their vendor's agreement or license with the CC you're trying to use, and they'll bow to your request realizing if you report them they could lose the ability to accept the card (and possibly all merchant accounts - including TeleCheck check acceptance, other credit cards, and run into future problems with other electronic-based financial transactions).

Granted, it is a hassle, but if you have the purchasing power to buy a car on a credit card, you are legally able to do so and the CC merchants have no restrictions. Thus, your dealer can't either.

edit: beaten by others! too much time spent typing!
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      05-14-2008, 11:15 AM   #13
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If you really push this issue, the dealer has to cave in. They're under contract and they know it.

I used to deal with large transactions like this on a dialy basis, and we hated to get a $30k order and then have them pay with a credit card because we'd lose 2-3% right off the top, but the fact is you have to take it.

If they balk at this Visa will lawyer up on them so fast it will make their head spin, and probably revoke their right to accept the cards.

In the business I was in if we had a customer that always paid with a car we'd just quote him 3% higher to make up for it, but they can't do this on a car.
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      05-14-2008, 11:18 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G5Ti View Post
Technically, the dealer can't charge you a surcharge to use your card either. They can, however, offer a cash discount.

!

Right, and in this case they'd have to take that off MSRP, so he'd win either way.


I'm interested to see how this plays out. I want to put $4k on one of my cards this week and I haven't asked about it yet. I really don't want to go through a hassle over it, but I might if they're going to be a PITA.
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      05-14-2008, 02:26 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by jeremyc74 View Post

If they balk at this Visa will lawyer up on them so fast it will make their head spin, and probably revoke their right to accept the cards.
I doubt visa would go that far, as many cc transactions that take place at a dealership, it would hurt visa more to revoke them. Imagine all the income lost from fees. Dealers know this
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      05-14-2008, 02:34 PM   #16
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I doubt visa would go that far, as many cc transactions that take place at a dealership, it would hurt visa more to revoke them. Imagine all the income lost from fees. Dealers know this

Imagine all the deposits the dealer would loose, and the abilty for people to pay for parts and service with a Visa credit or debit card if Visa pulled their rights. The dealers are in the wrong on this by contract, and they know it. They'll never let it get to that point.
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      05-14-2008, 02:55 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremyc74 View Post
Imagine all the deposits the dealer would loose, and the abilty for people to pay for parts and service with a Visa credit or debit card if Visa pulled their rights. The dealers are in the wrong on this by contract, and they know it. They'll never let it get to that point.
That's exactly what Visa told me, that no way would the dealer want to risk losing their entire VISA priviledges by breaking these very clear rules on me. I now have the "VISA Merachants Rules" printed and ready to show the Dealer if they hassle me at all.

Once again, the dealer will get away with whatever they can to put dollars into THEIR pocket at the expense of MY pocket.

But I've got a signed contract with $1,000 deposit, so unless the dealer wants to give me more the the $1700 more off MSRP, I'm going to do this VISA card purchase and save that money via the saved interest expense over the year. :thumbup:

Too many people let the dealer push them around and believe whetever they say.

By the way, both Citi and First Bankcard (First National Bank Omaha) offer this 0% for 12 months on new purchases. It's worth looking into! It'll pay for that Boston leather upgrade !
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      05-14-2008, 03:05 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kushalp View Post
I've tried to buy several cars on my Visa and the dealer has denied at the price we negotiated. They would have let me charge the car if I paid the 2% Visa charge that they would incur.
Likewise.
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      05-14-2008, 03:07 PM   #19
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I'm dying to see how this one works out. Please keep us posted.
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      05-14-2008, 03:22 PM   #20
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Visa charging 2% fees is crappy in the first place and puts vendors in a precarious position. I guess all is fair in love and war, especially with car dealers that are scam artists almost by definition, but I think you are sort of screwing them.

And before I get yelled at, I mean car dealerships are shady places not necessarily all of the people that work there.
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      05-14-2008, 03:30 PM   #21
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While you're entitled to pursue this as far as you care to, I personally don't agree with it. I think it's unreasonable to assume that the dealer will eat an $800 charge to accommodate you. If you'd been upfront about your preferred payment method when negotiating the price, that'd be one thing, but that wasn't the case.

Just as we all hate it when dealers try to change the terms of an agreement with hidden fees, etc., I think the reverse is similarly unethical. You may be "right", in the sense that the Visa contract requires the dealer to honor it, but it doesn't pass my "fair and reasonable" test. That's as a fellow consumer.

All of the above is my OPINION. Good luck with your car purchase.

Edit: I see John beat me to the punch while I was slaving over the keyboard.
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      05-14-2008, 03:47 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremyc74 View Post
Imagine all the deposits the dealer would loose, and the abilty for people to pay for parts and service with a Visa credit or debit card if Visa pulled their rights. The dealers are in the wrong on this by contract, and they know it. They'll never let it get to that point.
Valid point, but it just proves that there are no winners between the dealer & visa. The dealer atleast will have the option of using other credit cards & such.

I agree with the above poster that the op is basically changing the deal by trying to force the dealer to eat that extra cash. Would it really be any different if the dealer suddenly raised an interest rate on a (done) deal? I'm sure the op doesn't care, but if it were me & at the last moment he decided to force a cc charge for the entire amount costing me money out of my pocket, I'd personally let him walk. It's more the principal with me. But it goes both ways. If I mess up pricing on a car & make a deal to sell for too cheap, I honor my deal.
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