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      05-14-2008, 08:30 PM   #67
jeremyc74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckwheat986 View Post
yes...could be...

but it doesn't have to mean credit card...
Semantics. Their agreement says they accept credit cards in any amount, for any purchase. The only way they could disallow it would be to specifically state that on the buyers order, and that would violate the contract they signed. The dealer doesn't have a leg to stand on here, and that' just the bottom line. THEY agreed to the terms in the Visa contract, and there's nothing wrong with holding them to it. If it's cutting into their bottom line more than it's helping, they should stop taking credit cards altogether.
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      05-14-2008, 08:36 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremyc74 View Post
Semantics. Their agreement says they accept credit cards in any amount, for any purchase. The only way they could disallow it would be to specifically state that on the buyers order, and that would violate the contract they signed. The dealer doesn't have a leg to stand on here, and that' just the bottom line. THEY agreed to the terms in the Visa contract, and there's nothing wrong with holding them to it. If it's cutting into their bottom line more than it's helping, they should stop taking credit cards altogether.


you keep bring up the visa contract...i speaking about the contract signed with the dealer....


my question is...does checking off the box in the DEALERS CONTRACT saying your going to pay cash allow you to pay with a credit card?????
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      05-14-2008, 08:56 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckwheat986 View Post
you keep bring up the visa contract...i speaking about the contract signed with the dealer....


my question is...does checking off the box in the DEALERS CONTRACT saying your going to pay cash allow you to pay with a credit card?????

It doesn't matter! That's the part you're not getting. By agreeing to accept VISA cards, the dealer agreed to accept them as payment on everything they sell, in any amount, and they can't put restrictions on it. It doesn't matter what they print on the buyers contract, it's in violaltion of their agreement with VISA. It's simple.


If they were offering a cash discount, it would have to be spelled out in very clear terms.
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      05-14-2008, 09:03 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremyc74 View Post
It doesn't matter! That's the part you're not getting. By agreeing to accept VISA cards, the dealer agreed to accept them as payment on everything they sell, in any amount, and they can't put restrictions on it. It doesn't matter what they print on the buyers contract, it's in violaltion of their agreement with VISA. It's simple.


If they were offering a cash discount, it would have to be spelled out in very clear terms.


To you it doesn't matter...but if the OP marked down this was a cash deal and tries to pay with a CC the dealer IMO has every right to tear up the contract.

Cash to me is interpeted as money, or bank check or wire transfer. You may argue a CC is cash. Maybe? Maybe not?

Thats what the courts are for. But to say the dealer has no leg to stand on w/o seeing the buyers contract is ludircous.
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      05-15-2008, 09:48 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckwheat986 View Post
To you it doesn't matter...but if the OP marked down this was a cash deal and tries to pay with a CC the dealer IMO has every right to tear up the contract.

Cash to me is interpeted as money, or bank check or wire transfer. You may argue a CC is cash. Maybe? Maybe not?

Thats what the courts are for. But to say the dealer has no leg to stand on w/o seeing the buyers contract is ludircous.

UH,OHHHHH.....
You may have found the achilles heel in my plan!

Since you asked, I dug out my signed purchase agreement that has my $1,000 deposit with the dealer on it.

At the upper right hand corner of the form it reads:

"MOTOR VEHICLE CASH PURCHASE AGREEMENT"

And under the Total Price lines it reads:
Line 10: Total contract price: $44,199
Line 13: Deposit: $1,000
Line 14: Amount to be Financed: (left blank)
Line 15: Cash Due on Delivery: $43,199

Is that enough to kill my deal? But as you said, what is considered "cash"? If I deliver a "check" to pay for the balance due, that's not cash either.

Hmmmm.......my grand plan to save $1,700 in interest could be in jeopardy here. What do you guys think?

P.S.: This was never about me trying to screw the dealer for just getting "points" on my card or anything like that. It was about getting use of $40,000 free for one year through a deal my credit card offered me for 0% on new purchases for 12 months, which is $1,700 in real money savings to me.....not an insignificant amount of money to try to save if I can.
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      05-15-2008, 10:20 AM   #72
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You have my opinion. A cash deal is not a CC payment.

Others may disagree...but I don't see how VISA helps you here.

They have no more right to interpet the buyers contract as anyone else.
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      05-15-2008, 10:36 AM   #73
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One thing that would help you out on the buyer's contract is if there is a specific place for CC payment in the option of payments. If it is just Cash or Finance, then CC would fall under cash because that would be the closest option and they have to accept the CC for payment do to their contract with Visa. Does that make sense?
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      05-15-2008, 10:48 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Jewpac View Post
I would take cash to mean upfront payment, meaning the dealer is not supplying financing, not that you will be paying in cash.
I guess this is my point in a nutshell.

I left the dealer with him knowing I was not using BMW financing given their uncompetitive rates, and that I was handling the financing some other way. No attempts to hide anything here from either party....nothing shady....no lying or cheating or deceptions going on here.

Six weeks pass as my car gets built, and I begin to pursue what my financing options are as I prepare for the delivery of my car.

I arranged for a PenFed loan at 4.25% and planned to hand the dealer that check when I took delivery of the car.

Then VISA offers me an even better deal: 0% for 12 months, so I decide that this would save me $1,700 in one year's interest expense, so why not use the card to buy the car instead.

That's all that's happened here guys. No grand conspiracy theories here. No "unethical" behavior on my part, just a guy trying to buy a car and deciding what method is in my best monetary interest.:smile:
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      05-15-2008, 10:55 AM   #75
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Just my opinion here, but a cash agreement is just that, cash (or check). A check is considered cash as it is a direct draw from a bank with no usage charges. If both parties signed a "cash" agreement, and the terms of the contract are changing, the entire contract is void and now must be renegotiated.

While you may be able to hold the VISA agreement over the dealers head, in the long run, you are not creating a partner for the future. Any transactions, service or otherwise could be by the books, rather than with any "customer accomodation" in mind. You could jeopardize your future "bargaining chips" so to speak.

Again, just my opinion.
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      05-15-2008, 10:58 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremyc74 View Post
Right, and in this case they'd have to take that off MSRP, so he'd win either way.


I'm interested to see how this plays out. I want to put $4k on one of my cards this week and I haven't asked about it yet. I really don't want to go through a hassle over it, but I might if they're going to be a PITA.
It looks like I'll need to charge several thousand to my amex because the guy buying my old car happens to be coming today to buy it (with a cashiers check).. and my new car is at the dealership today. My bank will likely require several days for his check to clear so I won't have that $14k cash available for the new car. I already checked and my dealer doesn't have a problem with it. Of course, $6-8k is much different than $40k.
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      05-19-2008, 04:35 PM   #77
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Went to the dealer today to pick up the car, told the finance guy I wanted to put the down payment on my Visa, whipped out the merchant rules paper I took with me, he still said no.
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      05-19-2008, 08:21 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red135 View Post
Went to the dealer today to pick up the car, told the finance guy I wanted to put the down payment on my Visa, whipped out the merchant rules paper I took with me, he still said no.

No kidding...they wouldn't budge even when you showed them the merchant rulebook! Hmmmmm.....so much for my plan! I guess if they have your car and you want it, they have the advantage, even if they're technically breaking the rules with VISA.

Just curious: what exactly did the guy say? "I know the rules and we still won't do it". Wonder what VISA would do if you reported this to them?

On a positive note: you got the car, right ??!!!!:thumbup:
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      05-19-2008, 10:53 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pwillcutts View Post

Wonder what VISA would do if you reported this to them?
I will find out tomorrow.
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      05-20-2008, 03:01 AM   #80
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I think the reason the dealer's F & I guy nixed the cc down payment has more to do with credit requirements than anything else. Using your cc for the down is really 100% financing. In the eyes of the lender, the buyer/borrower has no skin in the game. Just not gonna happen these days, if you believe things are as bad as the liberals want us to believe. ;-)
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      05-20-2008, 06:44 AM   #81
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"No Surcharging": "Always treat VISA transactions like any other transaction;that is, you may not impose a surcharge on a VISA transaction. You may,however, offer a discount for cash transactions, provided that the offer is clearly disclosed to customers and the cash price is presented as a discount from the standard price charged for all other forms of payment"

This requirement seems to be met by the dealer offering a below-MSRP for a 'cash sale' but stating to VISA that it is willing to accept the card for the MSRP price. Perhaps some Sales Managers have approved CC purchases at some times in the past (end of the month; below quota; hangar queen they need to unload) but my sense is that dealers will be able to successfully reject CC purchases without losing their VISA Merchant status, provided the negotiated price is below MSRP.

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      05-20-2008, 09:26 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack in St. Pete View Post
"No Surcharging": "Always treat VISA transactions like any other transaction;that is, you may not impose a surcharge on a VISA transaction. You may,however, offer a discount for cash transactions, provided that the offer is clearly disclosed to customers and the cash price is presented as a discount from the standard price charged for all other forms of payment"

This requirement seems to be met by the dealer offering a below-MSRP for a 'cash sale' but stating to VISA that it is willing to accept the card for the MSRP price. Perhaps some Sales Managers have approved CC purchases at some times in the past (end of the month; below quota; hangar queen they need to unload) but my sense is that dealers will be able to successfully reject CC purchases without losing their VISA Merchant status, provided the negotiated price is below MSRP.

Jack
good point! My deal is $500 below MSRP, which I guess the dealer can now tell VISA is the "cash sale" special offer to me.

Then again, I'd be saving $1,700 in interest costs over the 12 months if the dealer will allow me to use my VISA (with my 0% interest offer for 12 months at VISA).

$500 versus $1,700..........hmmmm...

<gulp> I'd be better offer paying full boat MSRP wouldn't I ?:biggrin:
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      05-20-2008, 09:31 AM   #83
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I had the same issue with my dealer. However, I was informed that you can place as much as you'd like on a credit card IF you use a convenience check. That way the dealer does not incur a 2% surcharge. You may want to verify this with your SA.
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      05-20-2008, 11:09 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RastaGurl View Post
I had the same issue with my dealer. However, I was informed that you can place as much as you'd like on a credit card IF you use a convenience check. That way the dealer does not incur a 2% surcharge. You may want to verify this with your SA.
be careful sometimes those checks don't include promotional rates such as 0% so i would make sure before hand.
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      05-20-2008, 11:20 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pwillcutts View Post
good point! My deal is $500 below MSRP, which I guess the dealer can now tell VISA is the "cash sale" special offer to me.

Then again, I'd be saving $1,700 in interest costs over the 12 months if the dealer will allow me to use my VISA (with my 0% interest offer for 12 months at VISA).

$500 versus $1,700..........hmmmm...

<gulp> I'd be better offer paying full boat MSRP wouldn't I ?:biggrin:

You should also be advised that carrying a $40,000 balance on your card for a year will negatively impact your credit score. If your looking to buy a house or anything else that is credit dependent I'd think twice about this whole idea.
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      05-20-2008, 11:45 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by jdesclafani View Post
be careful sometimes those checks don't include promotional rates such as 0% so i would make sure before hand.
I'm buying cash, and rarely, if ever carry a CC balance. Just using the CC/convenience check for the miles. :smile:
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      05-20-2008, 12:02 PM   #87
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Just a heads up - in my experience those convenience checks are treated the same as cash advances. That means that interest starts accruing the day they're used, usually at a much higher interest rate than you'd get for normal CC purchases (like >19%). You might want to read the fine print on your account so you don't end up with a nasty surprise.
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      05-20-2008, 12:03 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by BullishMB View Post
You should also be advised that carrying a $40,000 balance on your card for a year will negatively impact your credit score. If your looking to buy a house or anything else that is credit dependent I'd think twice about this whole idea.
understood. thanks. Everyone needs to watch that carefully, credit cards will give you credit limits, but if you use too much of it, it looks bad on your credit score. Luckily, my credit limit gives me plenty of room to do this without negatively impact my credit score.
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