Suspension advice

[2008e92328i]

Is negative 2 degree camber to much for the street? I understand camber, but not caster and toe setting. Again, I need to learn that stuff, so I can understand how alignment work

[jcrane82]

Yes, -2 degrees is too much camber for the street. I have built track cars that perform well with under -2 degrees of camber.

Couple things to note....the Macpherson strut front suspension will have very little camber gain as the suspension compresses in a corner, so you usually want a larger static camber setting if you are tracking. A car like a Miata with a double wishbone front suspension can get away will little camber statically, as it gains camber in the corner as the suspension compresses.

Think of camber as setting the contact patch of the tire, caster as the tendency to self align, and toe as the amount the tire scrubs.

[Thunderguts]

Originally Posted by 2008e92328i

Have you ever driven an S2000? That car made you smile regardless how fast or slow you were going. S2000 felt like it was on rails. The turn in if that car was the best I've ever experienced so far. You turn the wheel a tiny bit and it just goes. I wonder how close I can get 128i to feel like an S2000. Interesting enough, my old 328i was my second favourite car after S2k. 328i is quite bit heavier but it still handled great and I had lots of fun in. The steering also for some odd reason felt much better than 128i. I know 328i had sport package and 128i doesn't. Does sport package really makes that much difference?

Nope, I've never had the opportunity to drive one, but they are one of the all-time great drivers' cars. I just wish they had made a true coupe version and not just a hardtop. I've often thought about getting one, but now they're too expensive. BMW is always changing steering ratios on cars. I happen to really love the steering on mine, both speed and communication. I've owned two cars with manual racks and the steering on my 128 seems every bit as direct.

So many things can contribute to steering feel. I don't know about the condition of your tires, but tires with uneven wear can create horrible steering feel. Once you upgrade your suspension and get an alignment, I'd be very surprised if you still preferred the feel of the 328.

[2008e92328i]

Originally Posted by Thunderguts

Nope, I've never had the opportunity to drive one, but they are one of the all-time great drivers' cars. I just wish they had made a true coupe version and not just a hardtop. I've often thought about getting one, but now they're too expensive. BMW is always changing steering ratios on cars. I happen to really love the steering on mine, both speed and communication. I've owned two cars with manual racks and the steering on my 128 seems every bit as direct.

So many things can contribute to steering feel. I don't know about the condition of your tires, but tires with uneven wear can create horrible steering feel. Once you upgrade your suspension and get an alignment, I'd be very surprised if you still preferred the feel of the 328.

Originally Posted by Thunderguts

Nope, I've never had the opportunity to drive one, but they are one of the all-time great drivers' cars. I just wish they had made a true coupe version and not just a hardtop. I've often thought about getting one, but now they're too expensive. BMW is always changing steering ratios on cars. I happen to really love the steering on mine, both speed and communication. I've owned two cars with manual racks and the steering on my 128 seems every bit as direct.

So many things can contribute to steering feel. I don't know about the condition of your tires, but tires with uneven wear can create horrible steering feel. Once you upgrade your suspension and get an alignment, I'd be very surprised if you still preferred the feel of the 328.

I went out yesterday to a twisty road here locally (actually really fun road, a little dangerous because it's narrower than normal lanes, but lots of turns and up down hills). I drive he car spiritedly, but not super hard by any means. I better understand the short comings of my car now a little bit more. First, the car has excessive body roll, I'd want it a bit more flat. Second, steering is slow. I guess for body roll, I need sway bars. Steering feel is okay, but I found out the steering ratio is 16:1 which makes sense why it feels "slow" to me. In my searching, I came across m3 steering rack that has 12.5:1 steering ratio. It seems like it's a straight swap. There are some issues I'm concerned about. People that have done the swap say it's SUPER heavy at low speeds. It's difficult to judge or get a sense of just how heavy it is at low speeds and if I would find it okay/manageable or if too much muscling around at low speeds. I don't want to fight the steering at low speeds. I don't mind "heavy" but I don't want too heavy. Second issue is steering won't be even on full lock, I definitely don't want that, I want each lock to have the same amount of turns (I'd that make sense)
Also, I found that e46 ZHP and even regular 330s have 13.7 ratio. I wonder if ZHP steering rack is possible to swap in vs m3 rack. I think this car with quicker steering would be phenomenal+ the suspension upgrades. I think it's a good platform, but I wonder if all the mods I'm planning of doing is worth the effort and money. I like the looks of the 1er and want to make it work. I definitely think this platform has a great potential, I just wonder if I'll be happy in the end. I don't much care for straight line speed, I'd rather have a phenomenal/neutral handling car that you have fun in regardless how fast you're going if that makes sense.
Thank you all, that have replied and contributed to my noob questions!

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by jcrane82

Yes, -2 degrees is too much camber for the street. I have built track cars that perform well with under -2 degrees of camber.

Couple things to note....the Macpherson strut front suspension will have very little camber gain as the suspension compresses in a corner, so you usually want a larger static camber setting if you are tracking. A car like a Miata with a double wishbone front suspension can get away will little camber statically, as it gains camber in the corner as the suspension compresses.

Think of camber as setting the contact patch of the tire, caster as the tendency to self align, and toe as the amount the tire scrubs.

No, -2 degrees is not too much on the street. I run -2 degrees 20 minutes, which is 2.33 degrees and I get perfectly even tire wear. Camber does not wear out tires, toe does.

No way you are getting decent track handling under 2 degrees. Need more like 3-3.5 degrees.

Tracks like Daytona we run 4.5 degrees.

[jcrane82]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

No, -2 degrees is not too much on the street. I run -2 degrees 20 minutes, which is 2.33 degrees and I get perfectly even tire wear. Camber does not wear out tires, toe does.

No way you are getting decent track handling under 2 degrees. Need more like 3-3.5 degrees.

Tracks like Daytona we run 4.5 degrees.

OK, let me clarify. By "track car", I really mean street car capable of track days. I do not mean full on race car. My apologies for that confusion.

The "street cars capable of track days" that I set up with 2 degrees of camber or less were double wishbone front suspension, with very good camber gain curves (NA Miata and RX-8). That is why I was making note of the different suspension types. If you read my post again you can see that I am stating that toe wears tires, not camber.

[Driven5]

Originally Posted by 2008e92328i

Is negative 2 degree camber to much for the street? I understand camber, but not caster and toe setting. Again, I need to learn that stuff, so I can understand how alignment work

The correct answer is "it depends". There are so many variables that there is no one-size-fits-all answer. What is great for a Miata or RX8 may not be for an E8X or E9X. What is great for coilovers may not be for stock suspension. What is great for 200 treadwear summer tires may not be for 400+ treadwear all-seasons.

Generally speaking, especially for strut suspensions: If you're driving miss daisy, -2* is overkill. If you're driving it like you stole it, -2* may not be enough.

[2008e92328i]

Thank you all for all of your advice and knowledge! I was gonna sell the car but decided to keep it! I still haven't done anything to the car. But, when I'm ready, I'll make sure to keep coming back to this thread as there are a lot good info in here. I understand more about the suspension now and different brands/options that are available for our cars. My car needs a lot of work for it to be "fun". I remember my old 328i had a sport package and it was a lot more fun to drive than base 128i. Can't believe how much noticeable difference a sport package makes.

[2008e92328i]

Well, I might get new suspension sooner than later. I just discovered/think I have a blown strut/shock on the passenger front side. That would make sense why my car is so bouncy and has too much body roll. When pressing down to the passenger side the shock/strut doesn't offer a lot of resistance and my car feels like a boat, too much bouncing! Might do the B12 kit if I can get it.

[Murx]

Highly recommend B12 kit , the eibach springs are a bit soft at the front and being progressive springs not linear imho so upgrade to a stiffer front arb to compensate, keeps it flatter in corners , less dive when fast cornering, better transitions - overall an improvement you can debate endlessly about stiffer arb vs stiffer springs / camber and grip ... ditch the run flats ASAP with a square 225 setup ps4 or similar and do poly rear subframe bushes- this will get you a decent neutral sweet handling machine, add trw m3 front control arms for added camber also

[dmytro98]

I actually had both a base model car and one with the sport package and there is a very noticeable difference. Mainly in being able to rotate the car which I'm guessing is due to the sport package including a rear sway bar, while the base model doesn't have one at all.

[Papa Popov]

Originally Posted by Murx

Highly recommend B12 kit , the eibach springs are a bit soft at the front and being progressive springs not linear imho so upgrade to a stiffer front arb to compensate, keeps it flatter in corners , less dive when fast cornering, better transitions - overall an improvement you can debate endlessly about stiffer arb vs stiffer springs / camber and grip ... ditch the run flats ASAP with a square 225 setup ps4 or similar and do poly rear subframe bushes- this will get you a decent neutral sweet handling machine, add trw m3 front control arms for added camber also

Which sway bar did you go with? That's the last thing I need to "complete" my suspension, but whether or not its worth it seems to be up in the air.

Currently running BMWP springs and considering the Eibach front bar since the my spring rates are pretty close to those of the prokit (BMWP:160/420, Eibach: 148/456). I've also eyed the E93 M3 bar but that seems to be a mild upgrade and is almost twice the price.

[Murx]

I went with the Whiteline 27mm solid bar, I did look at the Eibach it came down to price for me at the time, I imagine they'd be similar