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      07-28-2015, 01:21 PM   #45
SteveInfante
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This is the reason that I don't go back to the Ring. There are a ton of people on TDD's that go with crap cars or rent a "race car" and think they can't drive the Ring like Sabine for a couple of laps. There are way too many of them there. Now the issue of European insurance companies not wanting to pay claims for vehicles damaged on the Ring anymore and that was enough for me to not go back there. I went last year and had a blast for 4 laps early in the morning when it first opened up so I could cruise and have maybe one or two people pass me the whole first lap.

Later in the day like around lunch you can forget about it. People who frequent the Ring know the fast laps are made early in the morning just after the dew has dried off the track. I prefer Hockenheimring because of the GP layout. Same rules apply there for Touristenfahrt days and just like the Ring, very few people follow the "rules". And there have been a couple of people who have been denied insurance claims there as well lately. The last time I went, early this month, there was a bike crash that ended up with one rider losing his life and two in serious condition. Not worth it anymore to me. I'm gonna spend a little more money and stick to HPDE's when I get back to the States next month.
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      07-28-2015, 01:32 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashmostro View Post
Def saw it coming, but I ride motorcycles so I assume everyone is about to make a bonehead maneuver.
I drive my car as if I'm riding my bike too. Pre-honk when people invade and high beam when I see them straying from their lanes lol. Force of habit for my own safety.
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      07-28-2015, 01:33 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AW335TT View Post
Rookie move, anyone who has taken any racing course should know the car in front has the racing line and if you want to pass you must go around, not squeeze in between. I don't think that is a pass a experienced driver would have done in that situation.
This.

The lead car is supposed to be able to drive the line. The GTR made a bad decision.
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      08-26-2015, 10:37 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gthal View Post
This is exactly why I'm very selective with run groups and track days... mixing experienced people with inexperienced folks is a recipe for disaster. Mixing skill levels is a bad idea IMO. Bad.

Experienced guy is thinking... "I have room to pass, he's far right, there's no way he'll move over" ... WRONG.

Inexperienced guy is thinking... "holy shit, holy shit, holy shit... off my line... moving over... it must be safe" ... WRONG.
I agree.
I ride a motorcycle. Everyone is an idiot in my book. That's how I stay alive.

Anyway. The guy in front didn't drive ANY line in that corner.
The guy behind probably shouldn't have passed, but I would venture that at some point the guy in front would have hit someone else.

He had just been passed by two other faster cars. Not looking in the rearview to see if something is there before you drift all over the track is a bonehead move.

Rearview mirrors work on the track too.
The guy in the rear is approaching a slower car and trying to pass on the inside.
Dumb. Dumb Dumb. Definitely not enough room to pass if the other guy doesn't hold a line. Assume he won't.
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      08-27-2015, 01:58 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techwhiz View Post
I agree.
I ride a motorcycle. Everyone is an idiot in my book. That's how I stay alive.

Anyway. The guy in front didn't drive ANY line in that corner.
The guy behind probably shouldn't have passed, but I would venture that at some point the guy in front would have hit someone else.

He had just been passed by two other faster cars. Not looking in the rearview to see if something is there before you drift all over the track is a bonehead move.

Rearview mirrors work on the track too.
The guy in the rear is approaching a slower car and trying to pass on the inside.
Dumb. Dumb Dumb. Definitely not enough room to pass if the other guy doesn't hold a line. Assume he won't.
Just come from the ring. TF have difference rules. Slower traffic to the right, faster traffic on the left. Even in the corners.

The ring trackdays are better - overtake on the left by consent. No overtaking in the braking zone and corners. Unfortunately racing cars on trackdays ignore this and over take anywhere including on the right
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      09-19-2015, 04:34 AM   #50
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Yeah- you just have to assume that nobody is checking their mirrors. Trying to steal the apex is definitely a risky move when the skill level of the driver you're passing is unknown.

This is exactly why I only participate in point by sessions on track days.
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      09-19-2015, 05:30 AM   #51
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It's a public road. Unless it was closed to "visitors" for a proper day, that was 100% the Clio's fault. The GTR could have exercised some caution, but the Clio cut him off, plain and simple.
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      09-23-2015, 06:53 PM   #52
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After watching it a few more times, with the benefit of hindsight, it seems that the clio might not even have seen the p-cars coming. He was following the line all the way through and then turned in. Had he fully expected the p-cars, he would have looked in his mirrors and known that there were three cars behind him.

That being said, the accident can be said to go either way. The clio was out of place and should have stayed to the right, but the GTR driver should have used judgement and a conservative philosophy.

Lastly, I remember that many drivers on the ring (not all, but many) use their indicators to signal intent - so perhaps the lack of it (+ rental car status) could have be a sign that the clio driver was in over his head.

All in all, it seems that he made a mistake that any of us could have made. I hate to admit, but I do, that I also could have misread the clio's intent to stay to the right.
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      10-05-2016, 06:58 AM   #53
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Sometimes it only takes a little oil or coolant to ruin one's day at the 'Ring...


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      10-05-2016, 08:04 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
And then there is the risk of cars loosing oil, coolant etc


I wonder how much of this is nurburgring gmbh's responsibility.

They advertise it as a one way toll road, but in general the road administrator holds a responsibility over the condition of the road, and it's partly their responsibility to keep it free from contarminents that can cause accidents.
There have been many cases (I dont know in germany, but at least where I live and I figure thats the same in germany) that the road administrator (usually the state) had to chip in to pay for the damage. They're only not liable when they didnt have the chance in reasonable time to clean up the mess.
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      10-05-2016, 10:18 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Railgun View Post
It's a public road. Unless it was closed to "visitors" for a proper day, that was 100% the Clio's fault. The GTR could have exercised some caution, but the Clio cut him off, plain and simple.
When public road is treated like a race track, public road rules do not apply any longer.
On a public road it would be Clio drivers fault, but as you can see on this video he was trying to take a race line towards the apex.
His fault was that he was not aware of the fast approaching car behind him(didn't check his mirrors)
GTR driver didn't have the right to overtake in the corner if he was not alongside the car he was overtaking(Clio).
Bottom line, both drivers made amateur mistakes and paid for it
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Last edited by Datka; 10-05-2016 at 10:23 PM..
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      10-06-2016, 01:43 AM   #56
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Clio's fault in this particular case, whatever theoretical rules may say, been there done that(not looking in mirrors properly when someone wants to pass you at the left legaly ) and I left without a scratch thank God (I was 'the Clio' in this case)

Cheers
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      10-06-2016, 08:21 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post


I wonder how much of this is nurburgring gmbh's responsibility.

They advertise it as a one way toll road, but in general the road administrator holds a responsibility over the condition of the road, and it's partly their responsibility to keep it free from contarminents that can cause accidents.
There have been many cases (I dont know in germany, but at least where I live and I figure thats the same in germany) that the road administrator (usually the state) had to chip in to pay for the damage. They're only not liable when they didnt have the chance in reasonable time to clean up the mess.
None really. They have to be notified first, then have some reasonable response time.
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      11-12-2016, 08:19 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
Let's see if you guys can spot the "event"... I'll leave it at that for now, then scroll down further AND discuss!


















Ok, so how many of you saw THAT coming? I didn't. Just some food for thought for you guys who want to do a Tourists Fahrt on the 'Ring.

Our friends over at BtG wrote up a great piece on this crash. I think Dale summed it up well. Take a look over at Dale's website...


GUIDE: How to roll a Clio in 3 easy to follow steps...
http://bridgetogantry.com/2/index.ph...o-follow-steps
This looks like a video game...... LOL
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