Anyone else having second thoughts due to the new software

[CAMike]

I tend to stay away from these he said/she said type arguments as we have no "real" proof...the butt dyno is good for somethings but not in an issue such as this. The way I see it, if BMW has advertised their cars as lag free (or virtually so) and is now changing things in the ecu that builds lag into the engine performance, then I should be able to cancel my order with a full refund as they are now trying to sell me a car that I did not agree to buy. I agreed to purchase the near zero lag car, not the some lag under 3k rpm car. That totally changes the characteristics of this car and one of the main selling points. This cannot be chalked up to first build year issues as this engine (in exact same form) has been around prior to this year. I am in no way saying that what has been reported is true or not true just that if it is true, they should be held accountable for the changes they have made.

My car is set to be delivered the last week of July. There will still be a pre-march built vert at my dealer (our dealer gets demo cars that they have to hold on to for 6 months so it should still be there). If I notice any lag, I will not hesitate to go drive the vert to compare. Would I have any legal recourse if there is now lag if it has changed the very nature and advertised selling point for the car? As a company built on a history of "driver's cars" I find it hard to believe that they would make such a major negative change to an engine's performance. I hope this all is not true but I worry now about getting a car that is dramatically different than the one I test drove.

Can someone that knows more than I do about turbos and such explain why BMW would be so concerned about "wastegate rattle" to the point of possibly building lag into the performance. This engine is their bread and butter, I am really trying to convince myself that they would not do something so stupid as to change the very nature of their biggest money maker but I guess stanger things have happened. I can only hope this is an isolated issue and not what I have coming in July. I will be EXTREMELY upset!!

Ok...I know I haven't added anything real to this discussion but needed to vent and share my concerns and hope I get a car that drives like the one I tested...no noticable lag at all...

[gargoyal]

I should be getting my car in a week or so. I do plan on test driving it before finalizing the paperwork. I have test drove the 135 3 time and a 335 2 in the last 6 weeks (thank god there a lot of dealers in so cal to keep me busy) so I think I will notice significant lag. If the lag is there I probably won’t pick up the car.

I still like the car, but reports like this, the ECU upgrade, BMW’s new monitoring, and the extra mile they are going to flag modded cars is make me a little squeamish.

It looks like BMW accidently jump into the tuner/enthusiast market with a highly modifiable force induction car and don’t know how to handle it. It seems like they are grasping to get things under control. It’s not unusual for a manufacture to have a love/hate relation with tuners/enthusiasts, but I don’t think BMW has figured out how to handle us and the N54 yet.

I think that BMW will get it right in the end, but I keep asking myself if I want to be part of the fun and games as they figure it out.

I’m thinking it may be better to lose a $1000 deposit and get my 135 next year once BMW has figured out the new market they have landed in.

[jrc]

^^^^^^^^^^^^ Why would you lose your deposit? Most are fully refundable -- mine was -- yours should be too.

[CAMike]

You might be right about just giving up the $1000 and waiting. To me, BMW is just wasting money trying to find ways to detect any mods. look how quickly people found a way around the new patch. they are spending time and money to defeat a small percentage of their owners. I bet if BMW came out with their own tune that even increased HP by 40 or so and allowed you to still have a full warranty, they would eliminate most competition. We would love the extra power of SSTT, PB3, etc but if we could get most of the power gains with zero worry about warranty I think most would pass up the extra 15-20hp for the peace of mind. Maybe not but I think most would. Like I said, I'm trying to keep the faith and hope like crazy that my car comes with zero lag!!

[CAMike]

The program with Military sales, the deposit is non-refundable as we deal directly with the factory and not a true "dealer" with a lot and cars sitting waiting to be purchased. Our program (here at least) is completely spec built with no inventory sitting around. Maybe it is different for others but my deposit is non-refundable.

[jrc]

Did not know taht about military sales. But AFAIK private sales through dealers in the US the deposit is fully refundable. Like I said before, mine certainly was.

Edit: --forgot to say that mine was "spec" built from the factory too.

[JC Jai]

it would make sense that spec built cars deposits aren't refundable, and it isn't here in Canada. Having said that, given this situation is true, then the car isn't the car you thought you ordered and they have no choice but to give you back the deposit.

[clerkpalmer]

I gave my SA a call to see if they had any reported complaints regarding the V29 lag issue. He said that he has heard of no complaints on the 1 series (which they've sold all but 2 of). I asked him if the same held true for the 335. His answer was very strange. He said that it wouldn't matter because the 335 and the 135 have "different engines". When I pressed him on this statement, he retracted and said that they were "tuned" differently and therefore a comparison with a 335 would not be relevant with a 135. In the end, he said that before they would offer me the V30 under warranty, I would need to have a specific complaint that he could verify. I haven't really noticed a ton of turbo lag on my car (March build). The turbos definitely spool before 3000RPM but not at 1400 as advertised. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

[CarolinaDawgs]

Originally Posted by excel

Ya I think proof is the important part. Everything else is hearsay

I'd like to weigh in here...BMW's promise of low end torque was exactly what led me to this car. I test drove the 135 in March & loved it, was very impressed with the low end torque (1st & 2nd gears). Now, obviously the car I drove was a pre March build. After taking delivery on June 5th, I can tell a noticeable difference in the torque in my car below 3000 rpms. Now, don't take my wrong, I still love the car. However, this bait and switch is bs. I went to my dealer today to speak with the sales manager but it was his day off. Rest assured, I will go back tomorrow. I'll let you know what they say.

[BMW135iCA]

I work at a dealer and have told people about it here. I don't think they have had anyone come in yet who has complained. I spoke to a few technicians and I think speeking to me was the first they have heard about it. Personally I hope BMW fixes this problem.

Chris

[aus]

Originally Posted by HPADDICT

If this is true it really pisses me off. My car is ordered though so what can I do? Guess Dinan will be getting a call sooner then later

Dinan can't touch the newer cars with the new DME... not yet at least.

[aus]

Originally Posted by gargoyal

I’m thinking it may be better to lose a $1000 deposit and get my 135 next year once BMW has figured out the new market they have landed in.

If you ordered from a dealer in Cali, you will not lose your deposit. It's the law.

[Abel_135]

well i have order my 135 last week,so i will get in in augoust so my car will be affected,there is any solution to this problem? how is call v29 version ecu?,can any tuner solve this problem.
than you

[imported_Sinner]

Originally Posted by aus

Dinan can't touch the newer cars with the new DME... not yet at least.

They can now, though this has to be a new development in the last few days.
http://www.dinancars.com/store/Engin...p-1-c-783.html

[JB135i]

Originally Posted by Sinner

They can now, though this has to be a new development in the last few days.
http://www.dinancars.com/store/Engin...p-1-c-783.html

There is a god!!!

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by Sinner

They can now, though this has to be a new development in the last few days.
http://www.dinancars.com/store/Engin...p-1-c-783.html

Cool! It's nice to have another option back on the table. You have to ship the ECU to them which is kind of a hassel, but not too bad.

[Brandon26pdx]

To address the original question in this thread, and after reading pages of fanboys prattling on about "software revisions" over on E90post...yeah it does make me seriously wonder if the whole N54/135i thing is a rabbit hole I really want to go down. It's almost like they bought a lifestyle whether they realized it or not when they bought the car. I've already experienced the "high maintenence car" lifestyle with previous rides, and it kind of wears on you after a bit. That begs the question, would the 128i be the "better" ownership experience?:iono:

Perish the thought of what some of these N54 related repairs would cost when the car goes out of warranty...

[aus]

Originally Posted by Brandon26pdx

To address the original question in this thread, and after reading pages of fanboys prattling on about "software revisions" over on E90post...yeah it does make me seriously wonder if the whole N54/135i thing is a rabbit hole I really want to go down. It's almost like they bought a lifestyle whether they realized it or not when they bought the car. I've already experienced the "high maintenence car" lifestyle with previous rides, and it kind of wears on you after a bit. That begs the question, would the 128i be the "better" ownership experience?:iono:

Perish the thought of what some of these N54 related repairs would cost when the car goes out of warranty...

I know what you mean. Seriously, the 335 I have now is so damn fast, I really don't need anymore power for regular driving on the street. And that's the reason I'm not happy at all about losing torque down low. I can just step on the gas now and pass easily while driving locally without having to downshift. I'm not happy about having to downshift everytime I want to jump into a little gap in traffic.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by aus

I know what you mean. Seriously, the 335 I have now is so damn fast, I really don't need anymore power for regular driving on the street. And that's the reason I'm not happy at all about losing torque down low. I can just step on the gas now and pass easily while driving locally without having to downshift. I'm not happy about having to downshift everytime I want to jump into a little gap in traffic.

Hold on now! You guys act like the cars with the new tune are like an old Supra or something, and that's not the case at all. You don't have to downshift this car in town AT ALL. I cruise around in 6th gear all the time.

When you notice the lag is when you're really running the car hard, not in normal driving. Even then we're talking about a split second that it takes for the bypass to close. You don't lose torque at all. The turbos still build the same amount of boost. You lose a little throttle response in certain conditions, and that's all.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by 0002s

You do realize that the owner of the $26K car had DP, CB, JB2 and had a spike in boost (from his setup) that caused this ? He freely admits that he screwed his own car up. If you plan on being as STUPID as this driver....I agree with you that you should stay away from the 535/335/135 platforms.

You do realize how many people have similar setups. This is a common setup on E90post and actually most use Procede which gets even better numbers.

Downpipes, full exhaust, and piggyback were definitely on my list of mods. And if you didn't notice this thread is under the modifications forum.

That was my point of posting this. Modding these cars can lead to problems. I plan on modding my 135i, not sure about you.

Did you think I thought he had a stock 135i? I hope not, that would be silly.:biggrin:

[0002s]

Originally Posted by slickone

You do realize how many people have similar setups. This is a common setup on E90post and actually most use Procede which gets even better numbers.

Downpipes, full exhaust, and piggyback were definitely on my list of mods. And if you didn't notice this thread is under the modifications forum.

That was my point of posting this. Modding these cars can lead to problems. I plan on modding my 135i, not sure about you.

Did you think I thought he had a stock 135i? I hope not, that would be silly.:biggrin:

The setup isn't the issue. Your reference to that thread isn't a common occurrence with the N54.

The OP's thread is related to v29.2 (he's talking about "lag") not a catastrophic turbo failure. (title of thread kinda gives this away). Relating v29.2 to a over boost turbo failure or debris in intake really doesn't make sense.

My point is that people are blowing v29.2 out of proportion. Your reference to a catastrophic turbo failure due to owners fault is a perfect example. It has NOTHING to do with v29.2. It's also a HUGE jump to conclude that based on this one post of owner's error that the N54 is a weak platform to mod and extra risky.

There is no proof of what is really happening w/ v29.2 on the 335i let alone the 135i even thought they have the same motor. There is butt dyno posts and HUGE AMOUNTS of non owners speculating....THAT'S IT. I do believe that there is a change though. Just "what" is the question. Until there is real proof of what's going on and the effects on the torque curve the mass speculation as to BMW screwing the customer is better served in a rumors section. (btw...read the this page and it seems that BMW is already addressing this with a fix...time will tell: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...=147781&page=6)

No motor is bullet proof when taken past factory specs. There is a risk associated with any increase in power to a motor. Some mods have less risk than others. The N54 is no more or less adverse to risk than other motors when pushed WELL BEYOND SAFE LIMITS as your link clearly shows. Your link also show what happens when "one" does something stupid to their car. Caveat Emporum (buyer of mods beware) What is doesn't show is N54 motors w/v29.2 being a reason not to purchase the car, as the OP was discussing.

As to the question of "will I mod my car?"....hmmmmmm....well I guess you can decide based on my sig....:wink:

[MrRoboto]

0002. I dont suppose you have any more vids? Also I am sure you have stated this before somewhere but would you mind giving me your impressions of the power of the car pre and post SSTT?