Thoughts on BG Products vs. Seafoam

[sdpauly]

So, I have been reading through some of the information on carbon buildup and methods to mitigate this problem. I would like to stay ahead of the curve and do something to avoid carbon buildup on my 135i. I have seen several people on this forum reccomend a product called Seafoam. So, today I spoke to my mechanic friend and asked what he knew about it, and about carbon buildup on DI engines.

He said he had no direct experience with Seafoam, but instead told me that his shop has been doing a 3 step process using BG Products and thats the type of anti-carbon buildup thing he would recommend. The kit basically comes with three cans of stuff, one goes into the fuel tank, one goes ... (somewhere else, I forgot), and the other gets applied directly into the intake manifold by means of a special fuel-injector type device that the shop has.

He told me the service takes about 2 hours and costs about $150. This is an independant shop that specializes in Prosche, BMW, Audi, VW and I have been taking my cars there for years and I trust their skills and advice. The price seems reasonable, but I am wondering if anyone here can reccomend for or against the BG Products as opposed to Seafoam?

I plan to go ahead and change my oil every 5k miles instead of the BMW interval of 15k. I am thinking I would probably want to do the BG or Seafoam treatment every 10k or maybe 15k, not sure...

[JHZR2]

Be careful.. These solvents will induce soft metal wear. Do an oil change after treatment.

How would you treat with seafoam? Isn't the bg specifically designed for di engines? Is the seafoam treat going to properly hit the back of the valves?

[thez99]

Interested

[Dackelone]

Both products work well from what I know.

The reason why BG products are well known in the USA, is bc of money kick backs. BG porducts reps go to each shop and pay the techs cash. When they sell you a BG product... inside of the treatment can is a small plastic chip. The techs collect these chips and when the BG rep comes by they trade these chips in for cash! So... which product is better now?

As far as I know... Seafoam doesn't do that. I think Seafoam is only sold thru chain stores.

What ever product you do use... you SHOULD change your engine oil right afterwards. BC they will dilute your oil.

I think for either prouct to really work well... you must get it inside of your intake manifold - to get to your intake valves. Putting stuff in your gas will only clean the tips of the fuel injectors. NOT the valves. I would also suck some fluid thru a vacum port with the engine running.

Btw... A friend of mine just used Seafoam to clean off the carbon buildup on his Audi RS4. They have a huge problem with carbon buildup. He tore the intake manifold off his engine and sprayed Seafoam directloy onto the valves. He saoked them twice per day. Before and after work. After two days soaking(the carbon buildup)... he used a plastic knife to scrap off the carbon. He said it worked sooo well. You really need to soak the carbon bc carbon is porous like a coral or a sponge.

BTW.... one way to promote less carbon build up in a D.I. engine is to change the oil frequently! Long O.C.I. will promote carbon buildup do to our engine running rich mixtures and oil dilution. When the PVC kicks in it will spray that diluted oil into the intacke tract and tahts how the carbon buildup gets in there(on the valves).

I am thinking of buying an endoscope to look inside my intact tract. I saw one at the German supermarket stores recently for just 99 euros. They even sell them on Amazon.de (do a search on endoskope in DE)!!

- David -

[JimD]

My son has used seafoam. He got check engine activation with a calalytic converter code. I think the code cleared itself before we sold the SUV but I am not 100% sure. You could damage the O2 sensor or the catalytic converter.

Jim

[TPLSM3]

I can vouch for BG products....although it is true about the plastic chips that the techs save and trade in for cash. And by that, it's like a quarter per chip! lol It's not like the techs are getting rich from it. Anyhow, we use BG products in our shop as well and their products DO work. I've always used them on my previous vehicles when it comes to fuel injection cleanings. However, I don't believe it will work properly in the DI engines. The 3 step process that your shop refers to is an in tank pour in additive, a throttle body/intake cleaner, & fuel injector cleaner (hooked up directly to the fuel rail - thats the "device" that they speak of). In our DI engines, I don't believe this process will clean the valves like what others have said about seafoam. Never had experience with seafoam, but may need to try it out on my 1er.

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

BTW.... one way to promote less carbon build up in a D.I. engine is to change the oil frequently! Long O.C.I. will promote carbon buildup do to our engine running rich mixtures and oil dilution. When the PVC kicks in it will spray that diluted oil into the intacke tract and tahts how the carbon buildup gets in there(on the valves).

I am thinking of buying an endoscope to look inside my intact tract. I saw one at the German supermarket stores recently for just 99 euros. They even sell them on Amazon.de (do a search on endoskope in DE)!!

- David -

I've been griping about oil dilution in these engines since I first joined this site - and I don't own a 135i yet!

Dilution is bad, but most syn oils will still volitilize in and of themselves, especially at the temps the N54 sees. That 8% or so loss will cause deposits too, but, once they have volitilized off, they are gone - new oil introduces the same volitiles again, and off they go to make new deposits.

Fuel dilution kills viscosity, and drops flashpoint. Analysis has shown that most oils for this engine are out of spec by 1000 miles.

So two things are being balanced there, without good indication that one method (change oil versus deal with dilution-induced degradation) is better than the other...

[sdpauly]

Interesting responses, thanks guys.

I will talk to my friend about the chips, give him a little shite for that.

With regards to the recommendation to change the oil after this kind of service. Should it be changed immediately, like the same day, or drive for a couple days to get the remaining detergents through the system, then change the oil?

I am thinking to change oil every 5k, and do the detergent treatments every 10k.

Also, someone mentioned these chemicals could cause premature wear or damage the cats or O2 sensors, any truth to that? Also, what happens to the chemicals when they hit the turbos on the way out the exhaust? Is there a chance of just shifting the problem from the intake valves and instead gumming up the turbos?

[BrokenVert]

I used seafoam on my ford. I had some carbon build up on the exhaust side of things and it froze 2 of my erg valves in place. After 2 treatments it all went away with no I'll effects. Can't recommend the product enough.

[Dackelone]

I think using Seafoam or even BG products USED in the correct way will not damage your emission system. AND if it did... they are covered under the 5 year 50 mile warranty. You need not say how they failed. Just bring them the car with a failed emission test certificate.

I know of some techs who use plain old water to remove carbon buildup. They would suck a cup a water at a time thru a vacum hose. Making sure to suck just a dribble at a time. BUT.... you MUST BE CAREFULL... because water does NOT compress like fuel! You want just a sucking sound like when your soda cup is almost empty and you hear that tell tale, sucking dribble sound. for the last few onces of soda. Same thing but with water.

The reason water works is it gets sucked into the intake tract. Atomizes into vapot and this water vaopor shocks the hot carbon on the intake valves. Making the carbon cold quickly makes it break apart. But its not a sure fire fix. just helps slightly.

The best way to remove carbon is by scraping it off the valves.

VW/Audi(VAG) in the 1980's used to use the shells of wallnuts. They had this machine that would shoot/blast teh valves with crushed walnut shells. Then when the tech was done... he would just remove what he could... but the rest of teh shells would just get eaten by the motor... since they were soft and would brun away up in the cats. I thought it was a poor method... but that was the FACTORY fix! lol Our shop always used the BG products.

And ohh... yes the techs only get like 25 cents per plastic disc (found inside their products)... but the parts manager and service manager would get free trips here and there too. For meeting certain sales targets! So... what does that tell you? I still would buy BG products. But I think from all I have seen and read... Seafoam works really well.... and it is cheap and readily available at any local parts store.

I think when I use Seafoam, I would also put some into my engine oil... like they reccomend... after using it in my intake manifold... and gas and oil.... I would change the oild THAT day. I would not drive very far on that oil. Low loads and low revs - to be safe.

[JHZR2]

I wouldn't put seafoam in the oil, if anything it would volitilize some of the lighter junk in the oil.

I'd change the oil immediately after doing this.

[JimD]

There are 19 reviews of Seafoam on Amazon. 17 people gave it 4 or 5 stars. One gave it a 0 and one gave it a 1. Both got check engine lights. One guy could read the codes and found it was the O2 sensor which he replaced. The other person apparently couldn't read the code. The odds seem pretty decent but the chance at a $100 repair is not apparently zero. My son's experience is unusual but not unheard of. Maybe if the guy who replaced his sensor had just waited it would have corrected itself. Maybe.

Jim

[crzy4135i]

Originally Posted by JimD

There are 19 reviews of Seafoam on Amazon. 17 people gave it 4 or 5 stars. One gave it a 0 and one gave it a 1. Both got check engine lights. One guy could read the codes and found it was the O2 sensor which he replaced. The other person apparently couldn't read the code. The odds seem pretty decent but the chance at a $100 repair is not apparently zero. My son's experience is unusual but not unheard of. Maybe if the guy who replaced his sensor had just waited it would have corrected itself. Maybe.

Jim

Yea, my S4 created a smoke screen after running seafoam into the intake manifold. I had it at idle in the driveway but got impatient and took it for a drive to clear the exhaust. WHen I turned on the main road and floored it.. it looked like the batmobile smoke screen behind me. People were honking horns and everything. It cleared up after a very short drive.

I wouldn't put it in the engine oil. That does absolutely nothing for our issue, which is buildup on the valves.

If you get check engine or other lights I would get out and run it hard to clear the system. I'll bet it burns off the O2 sensors and converters.

[Fireflyer239]

Have had very good experience with Seafoam, but it was in my Ducati 900SS. Completely got rid of some low-rpm roughness and stumbling.

[BForbes]

Moved..

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by maxnix

Very simple. Read the MSDS for each product.

Assuming correct technical application, one will see that one of the products does not have much of use in it beyond a placebo effect.

Like I told everyone before... my buddy with an Audi RS4 used Seafoam to soften the carbon buildup and scrape it off with a pastic knife. He did not want to use anything metalic for fear of damaging a valve. He had some serious buildup of carbon. The Seafoam really softened up that carbon.

He then sucked some into the itake manifold with the car idling AND with reving up the engine. You only want to suck in the fluid on DECEL, so you generate some vacum for the Seafoam to get sucked in.

You ALWAYS want to replace your oil after one of the intake services.

Maxmix, IF you have something to contribute to this I am all ears! But just don't hit and run and go with innuendo.

Originally Posted by JHZR2

I wouldn't put seafoam in the oil, if anything it would volitilize some of the lighter junk in the oil.

I'd change the oil immediately after doing this.

You ALWAYS should change your oil after one of these treatments. Wether you go with BG or SF or LiquMolly. Always change your oil!!

Btw... I have used LiquMolly's intake manifold cleaner (LM 5111 Pro-Line Drosselklappen-Reiniger ) before in my e36 BMW. It too will create some smoke. Smoke is a good thing, bc that is the way you know it is burning away the carbon deposits.

This is what I have used in the past.

http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B002...A1ASOCR7B8XMIN

Btw-II.... I think our cars have FOUR O2 sensors. Two before each cat and two NO2(nitrogen) sensors aferwards - to check that the cat is indeed working. AND they aint no $100. My bet is they are probably around $400 each! Maybe someone should check on RealOEM. :")

[blacknbean]

i love seafoam. ive been using it for years in mostly hondas and its worked great. no cel or anything wrong. I use 1/3 in the vaccum line, 1/3 in the crankcase and 1/3 in the gas tank. I usually drive around for a day then change the oil. makes the engine sooo much smoother after!

[philiopf22]

does anybody have a DIY posted for how to do seafoam on our 135's?