BMW 1 Series Coupe Forum / 1 Series Convertible Forum (1M / tii / 135i / 128i / Coupe / Cabrio / Hatchback) (BMW E82 E88 128i 130i 135i)
 





 

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      09-02-2010, 08:36 PM   #67
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I agree that the 135i is a better DD. All that low end torque is amazing.

The 128i is more of a windy back road kind of car. It loves to rev, the sound of the NA IL6 is sweet. Also, a stick is a must!
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      09-02-2010, 10:08 PM   #68
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I disagree. My 128 step is an awesome daily driver.
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      09-03-2010, 09:32 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bozola View Post
I disagree. My 128 step is an awesome daily driver.
Not saying it isn't, I enjoyed my step 235hp bmw coupe. I Just think in step form, the 135 is the better of the two, not the other way around.
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      09-03-2010, 09:34 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by roo97ss View Post
You had me right up the 128i being MUCH better daily driver than the 135i Step to Step...

For a daily driver in traffic as you are and comparing step to step, the 135i is in my opinion the better daily driver, for sure. Want to squeeze a little more acceleration to merge, change lanes, or do whatever, the 135 is so effortless and doesn't need to shift and rev like the 128 would. Sure it's more overkill than the 128 is in traffic commuting but I will say much more enjoyable than my 330 zhp step commuter i replaced.

Now if you live in an area where you get to open it up a fair bit with decent roads, etc. I would consider the 128i manual a good choice, perhaps even better than the 135 for daily driving, as you can really extract the power from it.

The 128 to me is much more pure as a BMW (light car, nice revving inline 6) that needs the manual trans to complete the package (from an enthusiast standpoint). My pseudo BMW (same car but now with huge GM v8/MB v8 torque) doesn't need the manual, and has lost the purity; but it's what i was ready for this time.
Believe me, i see where you are coming from... and i will admit that a stick 128 would extract that little bit more that the car has to give, that we with paddles miss. It just as one (me) gets older, smarter ??, calmer... i have found ways to simulate that missed sensation, while still having the daily driver that i really need, and having no remorse of the simulation then the real thing... a 135 step/ dct is a beast no doubt.... just some of us dont need to tame that beast anymore...

I had my 128 at lime rock. never driven at speed there. was only 3 seconds behind a 135 that seem to have been there alot !! (and my car had all of a 1001 miles on it when i put it in pit lane.... and i didnt even paddle shift and left the e-nannies on... beast tamed
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      09-03-2010, 03:10 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DriveHard View Post
Believe me, i see where you are coming from... and i will admit that a stick 128 would extract that little bit more that the car has to give, that we with paddles miss. It just as one (me) gets older, smarter ??, calmer... i have found ways to simulate that missed sensation, while still having the daily driver that i really need, and having no remorse of the simulation then the real thing...

Ya, honestly the simulation which is actually better and faster has finally made it to BMW in the form of the DCT. The SMG was as fast as the 6mt, but was a bear to drive any other time, esp in traffic. I haven't driven a dct 135, but i did drive a dct m3 and it was great. I might have spent the extra money on a new '11 if it weren't for the n55 motor, not enough aftermarket support for my liking yet.

The reason to stay stick is simply because you like it, i agree, especially now... and the BMW step is pretty darn good, even the GM unit (in the _28) i've seen talked down about here. Maybe those people don't remember the move from GM to ZF that happened around 01-03 where I had a step crap out at 52k....and I wasn't alone. Then in 04 back to GM and relatively trouble free..
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      09-04-2010, 11:39 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer-Bob View Post
I know the saying, I was just offering a variation on the theme.

I still don't think it's that far-fetched of a concept that to a certain extent a powerful car can mask a driver's shortcomings on the track (assuming that driver is at least skilled enough to keep out of big trouble).
My apologies. I have heard that old saying for a while now, and it does make sense. With motorcycles, in my experience, even more so.
With a nice handling bike and modest power, you get a sense of being more "comfortable" with applying power coming our of corners. And that translates to having fun as everything feels in control.
With high powered bikes, the power just feels like it's going to spit you off if you don't get that throttle just right. If you don't have the skill, this can be disconcerting, and the whole time you're stressed about the whole thing, and the fun is almost gone.
This is true in cars as well.

Power, masking skill:
I understand your point on the "mask" thing, I just don't agree.
Perhaps this can appear to happen on a track where there are very few turns, so that the track is designed more for high speed, and thus a high powered car can blow the braking, and turns, yet make up for it by the track having mostly long, high speed straights. So, the track favors high power and high speed.

So, maybe on a certain type of track, higher power can mask a poor driver. Or, does it?
If there were an equivalent car with a skilled driver, bad skills would be more noticeable, as now the power issue is equal, and you're left with just skill to make the best time.

On a more technical track, a very skilled driver, driving a less powerful car, can make better times compared to a more powerful car driven by a less skilled driver who brakes too early, misses the apex, applies power too soon, and is basically killing his time. Yet, in the straights he seems to make up some of the space between him and the less powerful car. In that scenario, the high power car may be said to "mask" his lack of skill, and the sheer power of the car makes up ground on the straights.

However, to me, the power doesn't mask his mistakes. It just shows his lack of skill. Put the experienced driver in the same powerful car, and the bad driver won't make up any ground. He'll look even more like he doesn't belong there.

Whether power can "mask" a poor driver, seems a matter of how one interprets that. In the above scenarios, I don't see power masking bad skill. It actually magnifies it.

This whole argument came about by someone believing that a 135i may require less skill than a 128i. If the argument is that, on certain twisty roads a 128i can be faster than a 135i, sure that can happen if a certain set of conditions exist, the biggest being a well skilled 128i driver. But, given equally capable drivers, do you really think the 128i can beat a 135i on track or the street?
There is no "different" skill a 128i driver needs compared to a 135i driver.
He would need the same yet better driving skills.
If that is argument being made, then we're just arguing semantics of what "better skills" and "different skills" means.
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      09-04-2010, 11:59 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DriveHard View Post
Wow... alot about skills and hp numbers... what about simple pure enjoyment factor??

Personally I got a 128 because i find tremendous pleasure in driving a "slow" car "fast".... Believe me i could have picked any model i wanted.. My other car is a Miata, and for those who have never driven one 10/10ths...what a blast...

Personally i felt that the 135 was "more" than i would ever use or want living in NY... same goes for the my choice of "step". The Miata is a 6spd.. ive driven back from NJ in 4hrs of traffic... at the 3 hr point you want to tear the gear box out, and run away yelling and screaming...

As far as skill goes, any car driven 9/10 ths needs skill.. just as easy to loose the tail in my 130hp Miata as it is in a 230hp 128i.. but how often and for how long do we drive our cars at 9/10ths????? Thats the real question.. The 128I (optioned correctly) is therefor in my opinion a MUCH better Daily Driver all around car as opposed to the 135i considering we drive our cars at 5/10ths all day long...

just my .02
I wouldn't argue that either car is fun to drive.
Some like the added power, some don't.
You feel that the 128i is plenty of power for daily driving. Nothing wrong with that. As you said, optioned with sport, the 128i is a very fun car to drive. I tested the 128i, 135i, 335i, 328i and liked them all.
But, I had to make a choice. This time around I wanted to have the extra power.

You're of the opinion that your choice is the 'better' daily driver, as it gives you what you wanted.
I feel my choice makes for a better daily driver, as it gives me what I wanted.
So far, I like my choice as much as you like yours.
And that's great.
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      09-05-2010, 02:51 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPM90 View Post
My apologies. I have heard that old saying for a while now, and it does make sense. With motorcycles, in my experience, even more so.
With a nice handling bike and modest power, you get a sense of being more "comfortable" with applying power coming our of corners. And that translates to having fun as everything feels in control.
With high powered bikes, the power just feels like it's going to spit you off if you don't get that throttle just right. If you don't have the skill, this can be disconcerting, and the whole time you're stressed about the whole thing, and the fun is almost gone.
This is true in cars as well.
Yeah, this makes sense. For me, personally, the extra power of a 135i would either be wasted on me or get me into trouble. The 128i is the most powerful car I've ever owned (everything before was sub-200 HP) and I actually don't think I'd enjoy a 300 HP car as much, because I wouldn't feel very confident in it. I'd like to start doing some car control clinics and HDPEs, and I think for a beginner the 128i is a better car to start with.

Quote:
Power, masking skill:
I understand your point on the "mask" thing, I just don't agree.
Perhaps this can appear to happen on a track where there are very few turns, so that the track is designed more for high speed, and thus a high powered car can blow the braking, and turns, yet make up for it by the track having mostly long, high speed straights. So, the track favors high power and high speed.
This is exactly what I meant, a driver relying more on the power of his car than on good execution of technique. But, as you pointed out, I guess such a driver would still end up looking unskilled to anyone who knew what they were looking at.

Quote:
But, given equally capable drivers, do you really think the 128i can beat a 135i on track or the street?
Oh, no, not even close.


My view on the 128i is that it is a fun, quick car. Depending on what you compare it to, it is even "fast." But by today's standards, it is not competetive. Nevertheless, such a car would have been quite impressive only 10 or so years ago, not that long really to anyone but a teenager. The march of progress and the automotive arms race has made huge HP numbers much more commonplace, but ask anyone still driving an old 2002 or 914 how much HP you really need to have a good time. I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with more, and for the power junkies out there the 135i is really the only logical choice - but I think a lot of people do overlook a balanced, poised and perfectly capable vehicle simply because, well, it's the "base model" and who wants one of those?
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      09-05-2010, 10:39 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer-Bob View Post
Yeah, this makes sense. For me, personally, the extra power of a 135i would either be wasted on me or get me into trouble. The 128i is the most powerful car I've ever owned (everything before was sub-200 HP) and I actually don't think I'd enjoy a 300 HP car as much, because I wouldn't feel very confident in it. I'd like to start doing some car control clinics and HDPEs, and I think for a beginner the 128i is a better car to start with.


This is exactly what I meant, a driver relying more on the power of his car than on good execution of technique. But, as you pointed out, I guess such a driver would still end up looking unskilled to anyone who knew what they were looking at.


Oh, no, not even close.


My view on the 128i is that it is a fun, quick car. Depending on what you compare it to, it is even "fast." But by today's standards, it is not competetive. Nevertheless, such a car would have been quite impressive only 10 or so years ago, not that long really to anyone but a teenager. The march of progress and the automotive arms race has made huge HP numbers much more commonplace, but ask anyone still driving an old 2002 or 914 how much HP you really need to have a good time. I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with more, and for the power junkies out there the 135i is really the only logical choice - but I think a lot of people do overlook a balanced, poised and perfectly capable vehicle simply because, well, it's the "base model" and who wants one of those?


I was all set to get a 328i Msport, manual
Anyone who's opinion does not respect a 128/328i, has an opinion not worth respecting.
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      09-25-2010, 03:36 PM   #76
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Yeah having more torque is definitely more practical for driving on the street, doing quick maneuvers in traffic, etc until its winter time and all that torque puts you in a ditch or facing the wrong side of traffic

Based on that I'd say the 128i is a more practical year round car if you have four seasons

Perspective is everything
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      09-26-2010, 12:17 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky1 View Post
Yeah having more torque is definitely more practical for driving on the street, doing quick maneuvers in traffic, etc until its winter time and all that torque puts you in a ditch or facing the wrong side of traffic

Based on that I'd say the 128i is a more practical year round car if you have four seasons

Perspective is everything
If you don't know how to drive in the snow, the either car has the capability to put you into trouble.

Leave the DSC on, and drive for the conditions regardless of how much HP you have.
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      09-27-2010, 09:47 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPM90 View Post
If you don't know how to drive in the snow, the either car has the capability to put you into trouble.

Leave the DSC on, and drive for the conditions regardless of how much HP you have.
No disputing that but I still think its fair to say the 128i is an overall more practical daily driver for regions with lots of snow.
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      09-27-2010, 10:32 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPM90 View Post


I was all set to get a 328i Msport, manual
Hi RPM90,

What did you think of the 328i M-Sport? I'm seriously thinking of getting one with a manual transmission. A 128i with M-Sport is a possibility but I have a daughter, so the extra rear seat room in the 328i is attractive.

Thanks,
Leif W.

P.S. Hope I'm not hijacking the thread.
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      09-27-2010, 05:53 PM   #80
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Tbh, the 128i only really pulls once you past 3k RPM. Has anyone else noticed this?

Also, I've noticed the harder you push this car, the more compliant it is, ex: going fast into corners, accelerating hard through bends.
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      09-28-2010, 12:47 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky1 View Post
No disputing that but I still think its fair to say the 128i is an overall more practical daily driver for regions with lots of snow.
If you say so.
I have no problems in my 135i.
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      09-28-2010, 12:53 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeifW View Post
Hi RPM90,

What did you think of the 328i M-Sport? I'm seriously thinking of getting one with a manual transmission. A 128i with M-Sport is a possibility but I have a daughter, so the extra rear seat room in the 328i is attractive.

Thanks,
Leif W.

P.S. Hope I'm not hijacking the thread.
I like it a lot. I prefer the 3 series sport and non sport suspension to either in the 1. The 3 sport suspension is just 'right', done with that magical BMW tuning that the 1 lacks. The 1 sport suspension is still good though, but in comparison, 3 sport .

If you need the room, the 3 has more of it in the rear.
The front is close to same in either car.

Also, I think the 328i M sport sedan looks great, very sporty, especially with the front end redesign, and the new rear. Overall, with the M sport it looks sportier than my 135i. But, the 135i rear end is the best looking BMW rear end in all their cars.
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      09-28-2010, 10:24 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPM90 View Post
I like it a lot. I prefer the 3 series sport and non sport suspension to either in the 1. The 3 sport suspension is just 'right', done with that magical BMW tuning that the 1 lacks. The 1 sport suspension is still good though, but in comparison, 3 sport .

If you need the room, the 3 has more of it in the rear.
The front is close to same in either car.

Also, I think the 328i M sport sedan looks great, very sporty, especially with the front end redesign, and the new rear. Overall, with the M sport it looks sportier than my 135i. But, the 135i rear end is the best looking BMW rear end in all their cars.
Thanks so much. No here is a little more difficult question because it's subjective. What did you think of the power of the 328i? Obviously, the 135 and 335 will be significantly faster. Again I would get this with a stick. I'd be happy if it can hit 60 MPH in 7 seconds of so. I had a 1995 318ti Club Sport and was happy with the performance. Only a few times on the highway did I wish for more passing speed. I'm thinking the 128/328 would be sufficient as they would have more power than the 318ti.

Thanks,
Leif W.
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      09-28-2010, 04:09 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeifW View Post
Thanks so much. No here is a little more difficult question because it's subjective. What did you think of the power of the 328i? Obviously, the 135 and 335 will be significantly faster. Again I would get this with a stick. I'd be happy if it can hit 60 MPH in 7 seconds of so. I had a 1995 318ti Club Sport and was happy with the performance. Only a few times on the highway did I wish for more passing speed. I'm thinking the 128/328 would be sufficient as they would have more power than the 318ti.

Thanks,
Leif W.
either car will be more than adequate for you, esp coming from a 318ti. while they were nimble, fast they were not. The n52 has 230 hp, with an efficient 6 spd that car will feel quite fast to you. The 135 is overkill, sure, but that's how i like it.

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      09-28-2010, 08:42 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raine View Post
Tbh, the 128i only really pulls once you past 3k RPM. Has anyone else noticed this?
Uhh, yeah, I'd say that's pretty typical for cars in its class. Maximum torque is at 2752 or something like that. 3K RPM is pretty good compared to say an RSX which doesn't pull until probably way north of 5K It only looks bad when you compare it to VW or BMW N54/55 turbo'd cars which pull insane amounts of torque at low rpms. I'm sure that is NOT typical of most engines and you'll hear lots of people praise the 135i for that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raine View Post
Also, I've noticed the harder you push this car, the more compliant it is, ex: going fast into corners, accelerating hard through bends.
Yes that is also true and one of the nice things about the car
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      09-29-2010, 11:55 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeifW View Post
Thanks so much. No here is a little more difficult question because it's subjective. What did you think of the power of the 328i? Obviously, the 135 and 335 will be significantly faster. Again I would get this with a stick. I'd be happy if it can hit 60 MPH in 7 seconds of so. I had a 1995 318ti Club Sport and was happy with the performance. Only a few times on the highway did I wish for more passing speed. I'm thinking the 128/328 would be sufficient as they would have more power than the 318ti.

Thanks,
Leif W.
I like the power of the NA 3.0. It's plenty of get up and go.
Plus, with MT you'll have total control over the power band.
Even the Step isn't that bad as the engine has plenty of power.

Power builds nicely in the NA engine. it's progressive with more revs and it's linear. Throttle response is BETTER than in the TT engine, and I like that VERY much in the NA engine.

Even after owning my TT for over a year, every time I get a loaner 328i, I enjoy it. The engine sound at high revs is super nice, very high tech mechanical but very smooth too. It doesn't have any harshness all the way to red line. It feels like it can easily go beyond 7k rpm.
It's a gem of an engine. It's a BMW engine after all.

Yes, my 135i has brute force power and it gives a thrill when you want it.
It just has ballz. But, if you don't need it, and most don't, the NA engine is great.
I liked my E46 325i sport 3.0 with only 187hp and a bit less torque than that. This NA 3.0 has 230hp. You'll love it.
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      09-30-2010, 10:55 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPM90 View Post
I like the power of the NA 3.0. It's plenty of get up and go.
Plus, with MT you'll have total control over the power band.
Even the Step isn't that bad as the engine has plenty of power.

Power builds nicely in the NA engine. it's progressive with more revs and it's linear. Throttle response is BETTER than in the TT engine, and I like that VERY much in the NA engine.

Even after owning my TT for over a year, every time I get a loaner 328i, I enjoy it. The engine sound at high revs is super nice, very high tech mechanical but very smooth too. It doesn't have any harshness all the way to red line. It feels like it can easily go beyond 7k rpm.
It's a gem of an engine. It's a BMW engine after all.

Yes, my 135i has brute force power and it gives a thrill when you want it.
It just has ballz. But, if you don't need it, and most don't, the NA engine is great.
I liked my E46 325i sport 3.0 with only 187hp and a bit less torque than that. This NA 3.0 has 230hp. You'll love it.
Thanks so much for the thoughtful response!

Leif W.
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