BMW M1 spotted during cold weather testing (and official teaser images)

[chris719]

Scott26 is a BMW insider, if he says it will have 345PS there is no reason to believe otherwise.

I wouldn't be so quick to say you can't tune N55 either, but I think tuning without other modifications is foolish anyway. N54 already can be provoked into limp mode stock on a track, it doesn't need more heat to deal with; hence the BMW performance power kit parts and why the M1 will have a better intercooler.

[amdmaxx]

handling won't be on par with other M cars, it will be better, since the car will be lighter and more tossable than any overweight M there is on the market now.

Originally Posted by Smokey

Thanks for the updated info on the engine specs-- sign me up as long as there's little to no discernible turbo lag and the handling is on par with other M cars.

[Driver72]

Originally Posted by chris719

Scott26 is a BMW insider, if he says it will have 345PS there is no reason to believe otherwise.

I wouldn't be so quick to say you can't tune N55 either, but I think tuning without other modifications is foolish anyway. N54 already can be provoked into limp mode stock on a track, it doesn't need more heat to deal with; hence the BMW performance power kit parts and why the M1 will have a better intercooler.

I don't think anybody said the N55 "can't be tuned" it's just looking that it won't be AS tunable as the N54 from early reports of the engine and from the tuners themselves.
And the limp mode aspect of the 335i was primarily the early ones from what I remember.
I haven't heard of any stock 335i's going into limp mode on stock power at a track (well maybe if running in 100+ degree heat) since the oil coolers were put in them.
And I know several people who have tracked their tuned 335i's without overheating.
I personally beat on mine from time to time in canyon runs in 105 degree heat, and never saw above 260 degrees (usually 255 at most). True you don't drive as hard in canyons as you do at a track.
Normal running is 240-245. Moderately hard driving is 250 degrees. Limp modes kicked in at 290 or so in the early models. Again, but after years on the 335i boards, I haven't heard of anyone going into limp at a track since the pre March 2007 cars. Anyway, that's a whole different topic.


I would expect the first M car (not the SUV) with FI to have upgraded performance parts (intercooler, air intake, oil cooler, etc) over the non M cars, that would be a no brainer.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by ZER0_C00L

i can understand how they don't want the m1 to put out more HP than the m3, but why not make a lightweight performance car, a car which utilizes like weight and small size for performance... in a nutshell, make it like a lotus!

Probably because the E82 design is intrinsically too heavy to achieve such lofty goals. Besides BMW is always building a balance between luxury and performance and luxury comes at expense of weight.

[Driver72]

Originally Posted by amdmaxx

handling won't be on par with other M cars, it will be better, since the car will be lighter and more tossable than any overweight M there is on the market now.

I don't know about that.
The standard 135i doesn't handle as well as the 335i Coupe.
The 135i understeers more, has a higher center of gravity and doesn't have quite as good weight distribution, plus has skinner tires and shorter wheelbase.
It all adds up to decreased handling.
The 135i FEELS more tossable, but a lot of that is due to it's lighter weight and shorter wheelbase (which again isn't great for actual handling either, but sure does make a car feel light on it's feet and tossable.)

I'd say they'll make it similiar to the M3, but if anything a bit less balanced and buttoned down. The M1 would NEED the carbon fiber roof to help lower it's center of gravity to have a chance, and even then, it may not be enough with how tall the 1 series coupe is.

Either way, I don't think BMW wants to pull off a Porsche by making their bread winner 3 series (and the iconic M3) be upstaged by it's little/cheaper brother.

[Driver72]

Originally Posted by lacrosse

I think that 370/380 hp is not out of the question. That still leaves a 40/30 hp gap to the M3's 414.

No it won't have that much power.
You have to consider power to weight too.
The 135i weighs about 400 lbs less than the M3 V8.
If the M1 is even lighter (which I would suspect they'd do what they can to make the M1 a bit lighter than the 135i) having 345 hp would be like having 385-390 hp when power to weight is taken into account compared to the M3.

That's why I guessed the M1 will be .1-.2 seconds and 2+ mph slower in 1/4 mile compared to the M3

Having said all that, if the car is $8-9k less than the M3 (it should be, as the motor will undoubtedly be less expensive than the 4.0 V8) and then the fact it's a 1 series too, I think it will sell like crazy.
I feel it will be priced about $2k above the 335is Coupe (which should start about $46k or $3-4k above the 335i).
That would make it enticing to me for sure.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by Driver72

I don't know about that.
The standard 135i doesn't handle as well as the 335i Coupe.
The 135i understeers more, has a higher center of gravity and doesn't have quite as good weight distribution, plus has skinner tires and shorter wheelbase.
It all adds up to decreased handling.
The 135i FEELS more tossable, but a lot of that is due to it's lighter weight and shorter wheelbase (which again isn't great for actual handling either, but sure does make a car feel light on it's feet and tossable.)

I'd say they'll make it similiar to the M3, but if anything a bit less balanced and buttoned down. The M1 would NEED the carbon fiber roof to help lower it's center of gravity to have a chance, and even then, it may not be enough with how tall the 1 series coupe is.

Either way, I don't think BMW wants to pull off a Porsche by making their bread winner 3 series (and the iconic M3) be upstaged by it's little/cheaper brother.

I agree, M1 will most likely be behind the M3 in every metric, and there's nothing wrong with that. I'd say the M1 will be heavier than 135i, as most M cars of late tend to actually gain weight compared to the series model. It will be a fantastic car but I don't think it'll stop people wishing for a purist Cayman fighter.

[Driver72]

Originally Posted by chris719

I agree, M1 will most likely be behind the M3 in every metric, and there's nothing wrong with that. I'd say the M1 will be heavier than 135i, as most M cars of late tend to actually gain weight compared to the series model. It will be a fantastic car but I don't think it'll stop people wishing for a purist Cayman fighter.

Yeah, but of late M cars have larger, heavier engines than the series models.
This M1 seems like it will have a modified N55. The N55 is 44 lbs lighter than the N54.
So even IF they adopt a second turbo to it (like I've just read is the rumor) that second turbo and plumbing shouldn't add up to 44 lbs.
Sure the larger intercooler, probably larger oil cooler and so forth will add a bit of weight.
But I'd also think they will drop some weight in the wheels and possibly brakes.
They may lose a bit of weight in other areas too, especially if they use a CF roof.
My guess is, if they do use a CF roof the M1 could weigh 50-70 lbs less than 135i. If no CF roof the M1 could be 0-30 lbs lighter. However, it may end up weighing a bit more too.
But I wouldn't think it would be anymore than 50 lbs heavier at most.

[chris719]

There will be added weight in the more robust driveshaft components they will probably fit, plus the new differential.

[Nikos120i]

Any idea regarding the weight? Horsepower is great...but how low would they keep the weight and with what aids, i.e carbon?

[Driver72]

Originally Posted by chris719

There will be added weight in the more robust driveshaft components they will probably fit, plus the new differential.

Keep in mind the M3 Coupe weighs 133 lbs more than the 335i Coupe (that if the M3 coupe has the CF roof option).
I'm not sure how much the 4.0 V8 weighs compared to the N54 engine, but I'd venture to guess it's gotta be 50-100 lbs more.
So the additional M parts add only 33-83 lbs more.

So if they keep that same weight gain for the M1 over the 135i that won't be too bad at all. But again, I'd think they'd be able to shave some weight in the wheels and tires (probably 7-10 lbs each). And with a CF roof too, it could be close.
No CF roof and you are probably right, it could be a 80-90 lbs weight gain.

But with only 45 hp more on this M1, you'd have to think BMW knows they can't add much weight at all to the M1, otherwise it's straight line speed won't be much greater than the 135i.

Where the weight is added will mean a lot too.
If they give it a CF roof and drop 40 lbs off the top, and go with lighter forged wheels and nonRFT tires and drop 7-10 lbs per corner rotational mass, adding some weight to the diff, and drivetrain, as well as suspension parts and so forth won't be too bad.
If they lose say 8 lbs per wheel/tire or 32 lbs total weight in rotational mass they could add 80 lbs in sprung mass in the diff, drivetrain, etc and it would all balance out anyway.

[Spartikus]

Originally Posted by Driver72

But I wouldn't think it would be anymore than 50 lbs heavier at most.

I agree. Someone on hear posted BMWNA links that showed the X6M weighs no more than 100lb than the standard X6drive50i.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by Driver72

So if they keep that same weight gain for the M1 over the 135i that won't be too bad at all. But again, I'd think they'd be able to shave some weight in the wheels and tires (probably 7-10 lbs each). And with a CF roof too, it could be close.
No CF roof and you are probably right, it could be a 80-90 lbs weight gain.

But with only 45 hp more on this M1, you'd have to think BMW knows they can't add much weight at all to the M1, otherwise it's straight line speed won't be much greater than the 135i.

Where the weight is added will mean a lot too.
If they give it a CF roof and drop 40 lbs off the top, and go with lighter forged wheels and nonRFT tires and drop 7-10 lbs per corner rotational mass, adding some weight to the diff, and drivetrain, as well as suspension parts and so forth won't be too bad.
If they lose say 8 lbs per wheel/tire or 32 lbs total weight in rotational mass they could add 80 lbs in sprung mass in the diff, drivetrain, etc and it would all balance out anyway.

I don't think it's very likely the wheels and tires will be lighter, considering that they're getting larger and wider (by a considerable amount it seems). The factory specs don't generally allow them to cut down on strength to save weight like some of the aftermarket companies do. I'll be surprised if they're able to keep them the same weight, but I'm actually expecting they'll be a little heavier.

Also, the brakes are getting larger, and that adds weight pretty quickly. If the N55 is really 40lbs lighter than the N54, my guess is that combined with a few other lighter components will probably make this a "break even" when compared to the 135i.

[SCOTT26]

1500 KG.

Ice White Matt paint finish.

Not the only "Avatar" which has thrilled.

[southlight]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

1500 KG.

Ice White Matt paint finish.

Not the only "Avatar" which has thrilled.

Nice, you wouldn't want to share a bigger version of your avatar, would you?


Best regards,
south

[southlight]

Another hint:

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

" An M should hide it's true nature within , it should not look too ostentatious , it's all about discreet pleasure. "

Best regards,
south

[WonWunONE]

3300lbs? Meh.


But definitely can't wait to see more info on this!!! This might be the answer to shut up everyone that says "oh thats a cute car"

[Driver72]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

I don't think it's very likely the wheels and tires will be lighter, considering that they're getting larger and wider (by a considerable amount it seems). The factory specs don't generally allow them to cut down on strength to save weight like some of the aftermarket companies do. I'll be surprised if they're able to keep them the same weight, but I'm actually expecting they'll be a little heavier.

Also, the brakes are getting larger, and that adds weight pretty quickly. If the N55 is really 40lbs lighter than the N54, my guess is that combined with a few other lighter components will probably make this a "break even" when compared to the 135i.

The wheels should be forged. You can get larger and wider with forged wheels and they will still be lighter than the cast ones on the 135i.
To give you an idea, on my stock 335i's (both) the 18" wheels weighed about 30-32 lbs (front and rears).
When I bought Morr Alloy Forged wheels, I went up to 19" and went an inch wider. Those forged wheels were 11 lbs LIGHTER than the stock 335i wheels.
Forged are lighter and stronger. And the tires should be lighter too. 135i has heavy RFT tires, I'd think the M1 will go with Michelin Pilot Sports or Continental ContiSport DW's or 3's. All three are lighter than the 18" RFT's
The brakes will probably be 1/2-1 inch bigger, but they are drilled.
So I'd think they would be a wash, but sometimes, the BBK's in the aftermarket are lighter than the stock OEM smaller ones.

But either way, you agree with me, I think it will be a wash on the weight.
Probably, as I guessed in earlier post, within 50 lbs of the 135i's weight.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by Driver72

The wheels should be forged. You can get larger and wider with forged wheels and they will still be lighter than the cast ones on the 135i.
To give you an idea, on my stock 335i's (both) the 18" wheels weighed about 30-32 lbs (front and rears).
When I bought Morr Alloy Forged wheels, I went up to 19" and went an inch wider. Those forged wheels were 11 lbs LIGHTER than the stock 335i wheels.
Forged are lighter and stronger. And the tires should be lighter too. 135i has heavy RFT tires, I'd think the M1 will go with Michelin Pilot Sports or Continental ContiSport DW's or 3's. All three are lighter than the 18" RFT's
The brakes will probably be 1/2-1 inch bigger, but they are drilled.
So I'd think they would be a wash, but sometimes, the BBK's in the aftermarket are lighter than the stock OEM smaller ones.

But either way, you agree with me, I think it will be a wash on the weight.
Probably, as I guessed in earlier post, within 50 lbs of the 135i's weight.

You can't compare aftermarket wheels to BMW factory wheels. The factory's engineering limits simply won't allow them to shave that much weight. The factory M3 wheels are about 50lbs with tires. There's no reason to think BMW will stray from the norm with this car when it comes to wheel manufacture.

[matt]

Originally Posted by southlight

Nice, you wouldn't want to share a bigger version of your avatar, would you?


Best regards,
south

it would be nice to collect such "news" on the first site of a matching thread.
so you dont have to lurk for scotts posts so much

and bimmerpost should develop an app for the iphone

[matt]

Originally Posted by southlight

Another hint:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26
" An M should hide it's true nature within , it should not look too ostentatious , it's all about discreet pleasure. "

Best regards,
south

i think this means no quads....

[curtdragon]

this thread makes me LOL