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06-14-2016, 04:57 PM | #1 |
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Loss of power at the track
Did my first HPDE yesterday. I was pushing the car fairly hard; went solo on my third session and my instructor suggested intermediate at my next event.
Anyway, during the last three of my four sessions, about 20 minutes into it I'd experience a loss of power and not be able to accelerate. The car would hold whatever speed I was at if I floored it, and was not acting like limp mode or displaying warnings, but would not accelerate. Cooling it for a couple minutes brought things back to normal. Is this temperature related? Oil or IAT? |
06-15-2016, 07:52 AM | #2 |
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Did you get the half engine symbol?
I've found that if you run with the heat turned on full hot, it can prevent this from happening. -Joe |
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06-15-2016, 09:55 AM | #3 |
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No warning lights at all. After more research, looks like a lot of the N54/55 guys have overheating and limp mode issues at the track related to oil temps, and on a 90 degree day and pushing the car hard I may have been getting my N51 just into that limp mode threshold as well.
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06-15-2016, 01:50 PM | #4 | |
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On my N51 (auto too!) my coolant temps were never troubling. I've never seen it above 99c. I would get power cuts with my auto 128i on track after about 15 minutes. Turns out the DME was reducing power due to high brake temps (an estimated number based on driving conditions). No lights came up on the dash when this happened on track. But, I believe a code was stored. Read through this thread a bit: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...=944126&page=3 Once I coded that off I was able to really push the car. That is when I found out that the stock oil cooling was completely insufficient for using the car in this manner. Oil temps were hitting 290f. The DME pulls power in stages once oil temps begin to rise over 270f. You wont get a light on the dash until the car goes into full limp mode at around 300f. I would log temps next time you go out. Look into retrofitting an oil cooler if you expect to keep driving the car hard. I actually have the OFH and OTH for sale along with an oil cooler if your interested! Also, http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=412156 Last edited by bNks334; 07-18-2016 at 02:16 PM.. |
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06-15-2016, 03:18 PM | #5 | |
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06-18-2016, 11:14 AM | #6 |
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Try running a higher percentage of water to coolant. I run 75%/25% and a bottle of water wetter during the spring/summer and early fall. I also sometimes short shift just a bit. Try to keep it under 6k RPM, especially on 90+ days. A lot easier to do with a dct. I've never hit limp mode and I've run pretty hard. Even had the car co driven on a track day on a high 80s day. I want upgrade my oil cooler, but have a 2016 GTI that I'm modding also. Just not enough money
Last edited by jafo1701; 06-18-2016 at 11:19 AM.. |
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06-18-2016, 11:39 AM | #7 | |
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My N55 engine has a custom tune that is beyond a stage 2 agressive OTS map too. Oil gets changed about every 4-5 track days, as soon as its starts thinning. Oil also plays an important role in reducing temps by the way... I coded all the nannies out with NCSExpert also, to prevent e-diff and reduction of power due to hard braking ... No overheating issue or limp mode in the last 2 lapping seasons. Im a volunteer instructor at two local clubs. Car used to see track twice a week just last year. This year, I only book full day events about once a month...
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2011 X3 35i with M pack + 2011 135i w/6SPMT | 255 square tire setup | Quaife 3.46 LSD | Diff lock down bracket | Bilstein B8+Swift SpecR springs+H&R FSB | CDV delete | BMS Oil Tstat bypass | ER FMIC & CP | N54Tuning DP | GC Street Camber Plates | M3 FCA +guide rods+RSFB's+Tranny mounts | Manzo toe arms | Cobb Stg2 agressive tune | Hawk DTC70 brake pads | RB SS brake pistons | Goodridge SS brake lines | Custom brake cooling ducts
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06-18-2016, 06:11 PM | #8 |
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Dcaron, I get that brake warning on my display sometimes at the track. The first time I was worried, drove conservatively the remainder of the session. After that though I drove like normal after the warning, which is pretty hard. Never had the car cut power on me though. At what point will it reduce power? I have an LSD installed so don't worry about the e-diff. Haven't had to turn on the heat yet, may try it see if my temps reduce. Max I've hit is 270 on a 90+ day.
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06-19-2016, 08:58 AM | #9 | |
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06-19-2016, 10:02 AM | #10 | |
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06-19-2016, 10:44 AM | #11 | |
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Edit... http://www.onelapx1.com/blog/how-to-...w-actually-fun |
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06-19-2016, 01:25 PM | #12 | |
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07-17-2016, 02:29 PM | #13 |
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So is it oil or brakes? Can't decide from this thread. Having the same issue...sorry, started a new thread. I'm in a 128 with an LSD, standard caliper/rotor and upgraded pads. DTC completely off. Dropping power about half-way thru each session...lasts about 5-10 seconds, then goes normal for a minute or so, then 5-10 seconds, repeat. No dash lights.
I've heard the e-diff really doesn't interfere if the LSD is working, but I'm definitely threshold braking from 130 to 60 and from 95-30 with each lap. If it is oil, then I suppose I'm looking for cooler addition this coming week. One more session to go today, I'll try the heater "on" workaround and see if that helps. |
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07-18-2016, 02:00 PM | #14 | |
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There is no point in starting threads and speculating on what's wrong. Get in your car and scan/get logs. Brake overheating will not light up the CEL, but there WILL be a code stored for it. Brake overheating DOES reduce power. So do oil temps above 270f. Scan the car with Carly. You can even use Carly to log your oil temps. That is what will tell you what you need to do next... If you in an auto the dme might reduce torque if the converter gets too hot. Again, a code should be stored in the dme for this. Last edited by bNks334; 07-18-2016 at 02:18 PM.. |
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08-15-2016, 10:40 AM | #15 |
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I just did my 1st track day and I had the same thing. After the 1st 15 mins of the first two sessions the car would not go past 5500rpm. No CEL, no brake warning lights, and I had TC half off (first timer here). I let the car cool down between runs and the car ran great for the the start of the sessions. I had some traffic in the 3rd session and had a 4th gear Sunday drive for over a lap and half halfway though the session and the power did not cut out. All of the CAN codes make me think a connector somewhere is jacked up, or a module was freaking out... but I wanted to see if someone else has had these codes on track.
17 codes across 4 different modules. I have tried looking up the codes with little success. I am going to keep digging. I was really hoping to see a brake temp warning or something when I pulled the codes. Coolant temp was at 219 when I pulled off track for the session, no clue what oil temp was at. 85 air temp degrees and I'm running 5w-30 in the car. If anyone has experienced any of these along with Limp Mode I could use your input. The car drove like a champ in the 3rd session and on the drive home. They seem to be CAN related or unknown by carly... ABS / DSC / Brake: Dynamische Stabilitaets Kontrolle / DSC unknown failure CAN Code: 005E18 Engine torque is not adjustable CAN Code: 005E19 Torque 3 missing message PT-CAN Code: 00D356 Torque 2 missing message PT-CAN Code: 00D355 Torque 1 missing message PT-CAN Code: 00D354 unknown failure Code: 005DEC Instrument cluster: Instrument cluster / Kombiinstrument CAN signal fault engine Code: 00A3AD CAN signal fault engine idle Code: 00A3AE CAN signal fault cruise control Code: 00A3AF Heating / AC: Air conditioning / Klimaanlage CAN message Code: 00E717 CAN message Code: 00E71A CAN message Code: 00E71B Fussraummodul /FRM :unkown failure Code: 00E598 :A clamp 15 is missing Code: 009CAB :unknown failure Code: 00E59A :steering angle timeout Code: 00E594 :unkown failure Code: 00E59C
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08-18-2016, 08:09 PM | #16 |
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FWIW I just got back from Thunderbolt and noticed no serious loss in power over 5 20 minute sessions on both a 90 and 80 degree F day. 120 mph on the straight and oil temps were approaching 270 in later sessions.
I wish I could log but given I have no cooling upgrades the car ran surprisingly well (at least until I sprung some sort of boost leak at the end of the final session, I think the dv's finally shit the 18 psi bed).
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05-02-2017, 01:13 PM | #17 | |
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I suspect I can start off by replacing the battery (It is officially 6 yrs old, original) |
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05-03-2017, 07:21 PM | #18 | |
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I have been trying to find someone to code the nannies out of my car (remote or locally) with no success. I don't know why yours would kick on w/o TC being very active. Did the car drive normally later in the day?
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05-03-2017, 07:42 PM | #19 | |
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After the limp mode, I started the car after like 5 minutes and crawled to work (2 minute drive off highway ramp). Luckily i had my carly adapter in the car. During Lunch I checked for codes / cleared and drove the car hard for 5 minutes behind the warehouse. Checked for codes nothing remarkable. After work I drove home expecting the worse and nothing happened. The only code I got was a battery management warning thing. Didn't check today for codes but nothing happened. Will need to read codes with laptop soon. Luckily I can grab the X5 for the next several days so I won't be touching the E90. |
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05-03-2017, 09:22 PM | #20 |
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Didn't read all of the comments but I had similar issues.
Running the heater on high, replacing the oil solenoids and giving the car a break while in traffic by short-shifting helped alleviate this problem in my 135i. Never experienced an over-heating once I did this. |
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06-04-2017, 01:43 PM | #21 |
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I usually always short shift to an extent. I always play it a bit on the safe side on track days. I rarely hit 6k RPMS, have never had any overheating issues on my N55 even on the 90 degree days. Oil temps have never been above 270. I haven't run with the heater on yet eith
I have a ATB LSD and not a Mechanical LSD. I have noticed since I got the LSD that my rear pads aren't wearing nearly as bad as when I didn't have an LSD. After a couple of track days my rear pads use to be worn down to 25%. Since I got the LSD they have maybe only worn to 80% on 3 track days. Im going to contact an independent shop tomorrow to see if they can code out the engine power reduction due to the sensing of overheated brakes. Last edited by jafo1701; 06-04-2017 at 02:02 PM.. |
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06-19-2017, 03:43 PM | #22 |
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So I took my 135i n55 /DCT to thunderbolt yesterday and had similar issues as many in this thread.
Was a hot day 85F high humidity. Was pushing the car very hard as always and was losing power with no warning signs at all. I have bigger intercooler, cobb tune satge1+ as far as power mods. Coolant mixed with distilled water 50/50. Heater was turned on at max speed. TC off completely, stock e diff. I don't short shift as some of you suggest here, because if I do, I will get run over by fast drivers in advanced/instructor run group. Now I don't know what is exactly going on, but I did notice that in a cooler weather, lets say no more than 70F, I have no problem at all with power loss or anything else. My best lap time in april (much cooler conditions) on direzza star spec tires was 1.37.05. Now to compare that time with my best lap time from yesterday-1.37.45. I was testing my new bridgestones RE71R, and would be running 1.34, if not for fighting with slight power reduction throughout the whole day. These tires are amazing. I was able to take corners at speed I would never imagine was possible on street tires. So any suggestions how to deal with my issue?
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