Installed OEM e93 front sway bar (28mm)

[ChuckD05]

Where is everyone getting this sway bar ? Id order one asap but cant seem to find it

[f1rst 1]

So from what I've read in this entire thread, If I'm going to install my Koni Yellows and Eibach Pro-Kit springs, I would want to go with the E92 (not the E93) swaybar and bushings etc..?
Also with this drop (1.2" f+r) would swaybar endlinks be absolutely required? If I don't do them (endlinks) now but get the car aligned after my suspension and swaybar install, when I put do put them on (endlinks) would I need to do another alignment?

[mef]

Swaybar droplinks dont affect the alignment.

[f1rst 1]

Originally Posted by mef

Swaybar droplinks dont affect the alignment.

ok cool, that's what I thought, just wanted to make sure that if I don't do it all at once it would end up costing more in the long run.

[The1]

endlinks are an easy part to install, but can be a bitch to get at. so if you have the wheels off for the suspension, i would consider doing them at the same time just to make things easier. (if you're doing it yourself)

if not, then i wouldn't worry.

and at 1.2 inches, i would recommend putting them in, if you were lowering about .5" i would say you're not going to make much difference.

[xerox445]

Originally Posted by mef

Swaybar droplinks dont affect the alignment.

Originally Posted by f1rst 1

ok cool, that's what I thought, just wanted to make sure that if I don't do it all at once it would end up costing more in the long run.

Originally Posted by The1

endlinks are an easy part to install, but can be a bitch to get at. so if you have the wheels off for the suspension, i would consider doing them at the same time just to make things easier. (if you're doing it yourself)

if not, then i wouldn't worry.

and at 1.2 inches, i would recommend putting them in, if you were lowering about .5" i would say you're not going to make much difference.

FYI, I would suggest leaving the endlinks loose till everything is done, putting the wheels back on, lower the car on a level surface, and tighten them from the front of the car. The endlinks need to be tightened while the suspension geometry is compressed. You can get at them from the front of the car with it on the ground.

Edit: Before everyone asks why and or says "I did it with mine in the air and it handles sick bro", doing this removes any pre-load.

[Dave2]

I am glad I stumbled upon this thread. I will be installing the Dinan stage 2 suspension on my E93 M3. My son has a 135. Now my old bar can be put to good use.

[The1]

Originally Posted by Dave IV

I am glad I stumbled upon this thread. I will be installing the Dinan stage 2 suspension on my E93 M3. My son has a 135. Now my old bar can be put to good use.

as long as your bushings and fastenings aren't reused for the dinan stuff, you're all good.

if you have to reuse them, your son will have to go to the dealer and get new bushings and fastenings.

otherwise, no problem.

[Dave2]

Originally Posted by The1

as long as your bushings and fastenings aren't reused for the dinan stuff, you're all good.

if you have to reuse them, your son will have to go to the dealer and get new bushings and fastenings.

otherwise, no problem.

The Dinan comes with new bushing, so the bushings are not an issue. I am not sure if it comes with new clamps or I re-use the stock pieces.

When installing the M3 bar to the 135 are the 135 clamps re-used or are the clamps from the M3 required?

Sound like there is a possibility my son may need to buy clamps AND LUNCH.

[Dackelone]

For those of you that have the M3 FSB does it make the 135i understeer more or less? I really find it hard to believe it doesn't increase the car's understeer.

What about driving in the rain or snow? How does the car handle then>?


TIA,
Dack

[The1]

Originally Posted by Dave IV

The Dinan comes with new bushing, so the bushings are not an issue. I am not sure if it comes with new clamps or I re-use the stock pieces.

When installing the M3 bar to the 135 are the 135 clamps re-used or are the clamps from the M3 required?

Sound like there is a possibility my son may need to buy clamps AND LUNCH.

will need new clamps for sure, they are bigger bushings.

[The1]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

For those of you that have the M3 FSB does it make the 135i understeer more or less? I really find it hard to believe it doesn't increase the car's understeer.

What about driving in the rain or snow? How does the car handle then>?


TIA,
Dack

really depends on your modifications, and i believe your car is pretty modified is it not?

on stock suspension with stock tires, you do get more understeer, but you get less body roll, so some might consider it a trade off. if you have aftermarket wheels and tires and have played with the widths, you will likely be happy.

I have front and rear bars done as i have a limited slip and everything, so my car actually oversteers naturally now.


I know there will be lots of people that argue my point, but i did do the bar before i did other suspension mods and know from experience. and some testing

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by The1

really depends on your modifications, and i believe your car is pretty modified is it not?

My car is pretty much stock as well. Only a flash tune and M3 rear axle bushings. The My summer tires are non-RFT's but my winter set is RFT's.

I was thinking of doing this M3 e92 fsb along with the front M3 control arms. Mabe rear a-arms as well. Well see. Not sure IF I should do shocks with the M3 bits or wait. ?


I guess I just don't see how stiffening the front of the car will not increase the front end push(ie understeer). Seems not logical you know. ?

[The1]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

My car is pretty much stock as well. Only a flash tune and M3 rear axle bushings. The My summer tires are non-RFT's but my winter set is RFT's.

I was thinking of doing this M3 e92 fsb along with the front M3 control arms. Mabe rear a-arms as well. Well see. Not sure IF I should do shocks with the M3 bits or wait. ?


I guess I just don't see how stiffening the front of the car will not increase the front end push(ie understeer). Seems not logical you know. ?

if everyone listened to my opinion, the world would be a better place, but that's not going to happy

if you do something on the front, you should do something to tighten the back too, especially on this car as it pushes in the first place.

I find aftermarket tires on any car i've ever owned have helped remove understeer, so if you're running something stickier and well planed out, the front bar may work for you.

if you just want to get rid of body roll, it will work, if you want to be able to turn faster/handle better, it will add to the understeer that's already there. If anything, knock out the alighnment pins on the top of the strut towers and get yourself some negative camber, it will only be a tiny bit, but every bit helps.

[JB135MDCT]

Drilling out the pins is the very first thing every 1er should do.

[The1]

Originally Posted by jaf89f

Anyone think putting an e92 sway bar on a non-sport suspension would yield positive benefits?? Or would it just make my non-sport that much worse?

I'm currently running style 264s on bridgestone non-rfts.

I'm dying to make the suspension better or else I may just choose another car. I bought the car used and without knowing too much about the 1 series back in April 2010.

if you're non sport and non M package, then your car doesn't have a rear sway bar at all, so putting a bigger front one on would really mess up your handling.

If anything, your best option is to find someone who has swapped out the rear bar from their car and install it on your car if you want improvements.

But don't go bigger then the stock sport or M package sway bar unless you're going to do a lot of work.

the other option for you in this situation would be to the the BMW performance suspension.

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by JB135MDCT

Drilling out the pins is the very first thing every 1er should do.

I would use a punch and not a drill. Have you seen this DIY ? -->

Originally Posted by Xaeryan

I keep popping this thread up on different searches, and finally felt the need to add to it.

For those without the "screw-out" type alignment pins. Don't bother drilling or cutting. Take a drift-punch or similar device (medium-point works well), put a rag around the area in case you slip, hold the punch on the alignment pin, then give it (the drift punch) a good whack with a (metal) hammer.
This is the factory shopbook referenced method BMW uses to remove them (quote: "twist/drive out centering pin"), and it works really well/easily. They are designed to pop out with force from the top. Less than 30 seconds, easier than any other methods. :-P

(Note that this should be done with everything ON the car; if you are doing suspension work and have the suspension removed, don't try whacking it out with a hammer, as you'll likely bend the weak ring at the top of the strut mounting hat.)

DIY Alignment pin removal
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...1#post11216388

[JB135MDCT]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

I would use a punch and not a drill. Have you seen this DIY ? -->

DIY Alignment pin removal
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...1#post11216388

I don't have a drift punch. No excuses, I know, but same results using a drill.

[mdputnam]

It seems that over the years that this thread has existed, people keep asking, "Why does a stiffer front roll bar reduce understeer on a 135i?" From what I've just read in this thread no one has given a clear explanation. Maybe this will help:

Understeer happens while you are cornering and the horizontal force on the front tires exceeds the "grip" (counter acting frictional force) the tire can provide, while the back tires still maintain their grip. At the most basic level, to get maximum grip from a tire you need to maximize the area of the contact patch (the part of the rubber tire that is touching the asphalt) and maintain an even distribution of load throughout the contact patch. The best way of doing this is to keep the rubber tire tread flat and parallel to the asphalt. That is easier said than done because there are many things that keep this from happening, like tire side wall flex, tread squirm, tire inflation, road imperfections, and... (drum roll please) suspension geometry. For reasons we won't go into here keeping the alloy wheel at 0 or slightly negative camber (the top tilted in compared to the bottom) will help to keep the tread of the outside tire flat and parallel to the asphalt with an even load distribution during cornering. Of the two front tires that is the one with the highest load during cornering.




Earl S Mac Pherson and His Strut
The front of the 135i has a type of suspension that is called the Mac Pherson Strut. From a purely performance viewpoint this is unfortunate as Mac Pherson Struts have a couple of geometry drawbacks (see this site ). One draw back is when a Mac Pherson strut is compressed towards its extreme, the top of the alloy wheel tilts towards the outside relative to the bottom (positive camber). This is bad because that reduces the contact patch and increases the load on the outside edge of the contact patch. Remember, big area, even load = maximum grip.

A picture is worth a thousand words. Check out this amimation, see how as you begin to compress the Mac Pherson strut, it slightly increases the alloy wheels negative camber (the top of the wheel moves in relative to the bottom of the wheel) which is good for maintaining the rubber tread of the outside tire flat and parallel to the asphalt during cornering. But, as it is compressed further to its extreme, the top of the wheel starts to tilt out (towards positive camber) the size of the contact patch is reduced, the load distribution is uneven, and the outside front tire looses its grip (understeer). The big stiff M3 roll bar works, because it prevents the Mac Pherson strut from swinging into an highly compressed position that reduces negative camber and in its extreme ultimately creates a positive camber.

Disclamer
I have never carefully examined and measured the 135i suspension. Suspension design, as in life, is way more complicated than the simple fables we tell here. There are thousands of things that an engineer must consider when designing a suspension. We only lightly touched on one of them. So, after reading this I wouldn't recommend updating your resume and sending it off to Munich.
Extra Credit
For 20 points, can anyone explain why adding a stiffer roll bar to a double wishbone front suspension (like the RX-8 has) increases understeer?

[Dave2]

I just installed the Dinan Stage 2 suspension on my 2011 M3 E93. I have the front sway bar, bushings and brackets available for sale. The car had less then 6K miles when the parts were removed. PM me if interested.

[Dave2]

201 M3 E93 front sway for sale. Removed from car at less than 6K miles. Includes bushings and brackets. $200 + shipping.

[dcaron9999]

Sorry to revive this old thread but read all of it until my eyes got red, and did not find my answer ;-)

Something that hasn't been proposed is the replacement of the E92 sway bar bushings only (rubber mounts + stabilizer supports), on a stock 135i with the M package.

I noticed that the E92 and E82 bars have the same 26.5mm diameter, so wonder if this could work, and be as effective as using the whole kit. My thinking process says that the beefier M3 bushings may do most of the work, and the bar is not as important in the whole equation.

31352283516 - Rubber bushing, antiroll bar, bottom - 2
31352283517 - Rubber bushing, antiroll bar, top - 2
31352283037 - STABILIZER SUPPORT - 2

Here are pics of the stock E82 FSB bushings and brackets:



Here are pics of the stock E93 FSB bushings and brackets: