Header options for RHD N52 cars

[MBan]

Hi all,

I've been reading the various AA and SuperSprint header-related posts with jealousy. I own an Australian market, right hand drive 125i with an N52 engine and apparently the SS and AA headers won't fit and I can't find another off-the-shelf option.

Have I missed something in all my searches? Is there a manufacturer who makes headers for RHD E82s with the N52 engine? It seems strange that the UK guys don't have a solution (as far as I can tell).

I asked ARMA Speed if they have anything for RHD E8x series cars with N52 engines and they replied that they have a full system, including headers, for the E87 130i. Do headers from 130s fit 125s?

I know I could have a custom set made but I'd prefer to buy a product with proven results. Plus, there doesn't seem to be any exhaust 'craftsmen' left around where I live. The internet isn't good for everyone it seems.

Any suggestions are welcome.


Cheers
Michael

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by MBan

Hi all,

I've been reading the various AA and SuperSprint header-related posts with jealousy. I own an Australian market, right hand drive 125i with an N52 engine and apparently the SS and AA headers won't fit and I can't find another off-the-shelf option.

Have I missed something in all my searches? Is there a manufacturer who makes headers for RHD E82s with the N52 engine? It seems strange that the UK guys don't have a solution (as far as I can tell).

I asked ARMA Speed if they have anything for RHD E8x series cars with N52 engines and they replied that they have a full system, including headers, for the E87 130i. Do headers from 130s fit 125s?

I know I could have a custom set made but I'd prefer to buy a product with proven results. Plus, there doesn't seem to be any exhaust 'craftsmen' left around where I live. The internet isn't good for everyone it seems.

Any suggestions are welcome.


Cheers
Michael

130i parts fit 125i. It's hard for us to relate because we don't have any RHD Cars here.

[MBan]

So for US LHD models, a 130i header will fit a 128i without modification? If that's the case then there is hope that the same will be true for RHD 130i / 125i.

Does anyone have experience with ARMA Speed? They have the only RHD E8x (130i) header I've found so far and it isn't cheap at $1,800 (on sale now for around $1,400) so it would want to be good.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by MBan

So for US LHD models, a 130i header will fit a 128i without modification? If that's the case then there is hope that the same will be true for RHD 130i / 125i.

Does anyone have experience with ARMA Speed? They have the only RHD E8x (130i) header I've found so far and it isn't cheap at $1,800 (on sale now for around $1,400) so it would want to be good.

Werd. Also, stock manifolds with the cats removed is an option.

[MBan]

Cool, thanks Axiom.

I'm not giving up on the headers yet but the de-cat option could be a last resort.

[631twentyeighteye]

Are there any pictures of the RHD models and the header area? The mapleridge headers literally take up less space than the stock headers, so i'm willing to bet they'd fit.

Assuming RHD has the same headers are LHD at least.

[andrey_gta]

Mapleridge claimed his were based of RHD doners - Therefore RHD Stock + cat delete

[Kizzu]

so all 128i/130i/125i headers fit each other being all lhd?

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by Kizzu

so all 128i/130i/125i headers fit each other being all lhd?

Correct.

[Kizzu]

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

Correct.

and do n53 headers fit our n52 having just a different fuel injection system? cheers

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by Kizzu

and do n53 headers fit our n52 having just a different fuel injection system? cheers

No idea. We don't have the N53 in any form in the US.

[MBan]

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

Correct.

This is definitely sounding promising but I'd like to also hear about RHD if I can.

I suppose the stock 130i and 125i manifolds will be different so I can't compare BMW part numbers to check compatibility.

Maybe ARMA Speed will give me a discount to prove their 130i headers fit 125is as well.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by MBan

This is definitely sounding promising but I'd like to also hear about RHD if I can.

I suppose the stock 130i and 125i manifolds will be different so I can't compare BMW part numbers to check compatibility.

Maybe ARMA Speed will give me a discount to prove their 130i headers fit 125is as well.

I bet the part numbers are the same, there should be no difference with the exception of the software.

[Kizzu]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

I bet the part numbers are the same, there should be no difference with the exception of the software.

I don't think the software will affect anything if you keep the same sensors. this is interesting though as one can make a custom set of headers from a used set of oem headers

[Taskmaster]

http://realoem.com/bmw/partxref.do?p...878&showeur=on

http://realoem.com/bmw/partxref.do?p...692&showeur=on
They are the same.
There you go.

[andrey_gta]

I wouldnt use ARMA headers unless there was no choice. Bceause of two things - their price is almost SuperSprint, next their design features strange shapes where collector pipes look like this (). As if its some resonator.

Contact Schiedmann about their headers, they are cheap and more local to you than ARMA
http://www.schmiedmann.com/en/bmw-e8...product=SCM613

[MBan]

Top work gents - thanks!

I did a quick google for Schmiedmann headers and the results were mixed. Poor fitment being a common thread.

I'm not sold on the ARMA Speed ones by any means, particularly since I can't find any dyno results for that particular manifold.

It's a bit frustrating knowing there are good gains to be had, as shown with SuperSprint product, but no proven RHD options.

I'll some more reading on the Schmiedmann headers.

[MBan]

An update to this thread (and cross-post to babybmw.net).

In the end I chose the ARMA manifolds because the quality looked good and they apparently fitted well (according to a babyBMW.net member). With a 20% discount they came to $1,440 US. The headers come with all gaskets, bolts and nuts, and a little electronic module that plugs into the OBD2 port to cancel a CEL (which I didn’t install).

A few pictures are included below.








The exhaust shop recommended that if my purpose was to keep the car legal, I should use two cats in the new system so it is a like-for-like swap in removing the cats integral to the exhaust manifolds. The end configuration was:
Manifolds ceramic coated, twin 2 inch pipes from the exhaust manifold to two Magnaflow cats (200 cell), merging into a single 2.5 inch pipe then through a Magnaflow 4 inch resonator and joining to the factory piping after that. Essentially I replaced everything from the exhaust manifolds to the stock resonator (inclusive).

Sound-wise, the new system isn’t too much louder with a nice burble and slightly gravely sound through the mid-range and a pop on the overrun between 2,500 and 3,500 RPM building to a metallic buzz above that. No drone and no overly obvious bark either.

After a couple of hundred km a CEL has come up on the instrument panel. Still tossing up what to do but if I can find a good way to mount the ARMA electronic module without putting holes in the interior, I might do it.

I wasn’t expecting really big power gains because: 1) the pipework on the front manifold is a bit convoluted (in comparison to SS and AA) to get around the steering components; and 2) my system hasn’t reduced the total number of cats, unlike some of the North American guys who effectively go from 4 cats to 2 when installing the SS and AA manifolds. Even still, I was pretty disappointed with the results.

Before (red line) and after (blue line) as measured on a DynoDynamics in Shootout mode.




A 3% increase in peak power is small enough to put down to day-to-day dyno variation. However, the after header AFR drops slightly later at the top of the rev range – right where the small hp increase is – so I suspect there is a very small gain. You’ll notice the AFR drops sharply just above 5,700 RPM. Does anyone know why the AFR would drop like that? In TheAxiom’s N52B30 dyno thread on the E90 forum I saw a couple of other cars that had the same funny AFR curve but I didn’t see any explanation.

All in all, a very disappointing result. While I like the exhaust note, I could have achieved the same thing by just replacing the rear muffler section and saved myself a bunch of cash.

Has anyone seen an independent before and after dyno of the AFE headers? In effect, these provide a similar setup to mine. AFE claim an ‘astounding’ 16hp but quoting a hp figure alone is almost meaningless. Of course, the AFE headers aren’t compatible with RHD cars so they’re not actually an option but the comparison would be useful.

I’d also be interested to see what gains the SS or AA manifolds give when high flow cats are added back in to replace the factory cats built into the headers (i.e. for some North American guys, still ending up with 4 cats in total). In theory, they should still give a greater gain than what I saw with the ‘shorty’ ARMA headers but real life and theory don’t always agree.


Cheers
Michael

[_Ryan_]

AFE, ARMA and Schmiedmann headers don't seem that great, with the 'euro tuned length' (what the forums call our ADM headers) said to be decent.
That said, SuperSprint are considering making a batch of RHD headers, if you are intent on going down that path, I'd reach out.

Good luck!

[Taskmaster]

Well, the big issue here is you're not even tuned for the headers, so the car is still running the stock A/F curve, stock valve timing, and stock valve lift. What engine?

Sciedmann I have no personal experience with, but AFE was said to have gained some power for everyone who has used it.

[andrey_gta]

I would tyry the arma headers but,... get rid of the expansion chamber in them

[MBan]

I'd read in a few different places that Supersprint could be interested in making a set for RHD but none of the threads went anywhere.

I'm now not as disappointed as I was initially. The sound and throttle response benefits are tangible so I'm enjoying driving the car more. My expectations were just too high based on other header gains I'd read about online.

TheAxiom - i have an N52B30A. I'm hoping a tune will give some good gains. My novice observation is that the factory headers start to be restrictive at '175hp' on that dyno and the ARMA headers provide benefit above that point. In theory, a tune will get me to 175hp at lower revs and so the gains from the headers will apply over a greater rev range. I hope.

andrey_gta - I'm not even sure they're supposed to be expansion chambers anymore. They have an internal liking that makes me think they're for sound reduction and possibly something to do with the cat delete. I had a Powerball exhaust manifold on a 4AGE 20 valve and it was the only aftermarket header that gave good gains. The 'power ball' was an expansion chamber and while the theory behind why they help is beyond me, apparently there is some evidence that they work.

I'm beginning to think that at least half the gains being claimed from header manufacturers is from deleting a pair of cats from the system, which is why I'd like to see some objective evidence of how the AFE headers perform.

In any case, I really want to get a tune now but I'm trying hold off for a while.