HUGE dilema: 135i vs EVO X

[Viper]

I know this is a 135i forum, but just consider the EVO X for a sec.
Alright, I have been going back and forth for about a month now on which would be the better car (BMW 135i or the EVO X). I have test driven both and was pleasently surprised by both. I will be taking this car to the track about once a month (will have a second set of racing tires) and driving the car fairly hard. I previosly owned a stripped down racing Miata, so I am fairly familiar with rear wheel drive cars...fyi. From a pure driver's perspective the BMW would obviosly be the better track car (lighter and RWD), but the EVO would be the better tuner car. They are basically the same price (so that is not a factor). However I think the BMW will have the leg up in acceleration (correct me if I am wrong), but the EVO will probably be more stable in corners. I am not a big fan of tuning cars, I would only remap the engine by putting an ECU, new free flowing air intake, and exhaust (for either car). I need ADVICE...HELP!!!

[white911]

Buy the EVO X, keep the 135I more exclusive. :thumbup: I couldn't be happier -- I will only use the 135 on the track. I do about 40 days a year, generally in the Trackster.

[sndprssr]

I don't think I would call the Evo a "better tuner car". Given what is already out there for the 335i and the bit that is around for the 135i, I would say in the near future we'll see several 400+ whp 135i's. I guess it all depends on what you, yourself, classify as a "tuner" car and how you classify it...

[slipkmaggot]

I know your problem and was favoring the EVO for a while bc of its dulal clutch, but to be honest IMO the EVO is ugy. and the 1series offers class that when people see you they dont think you are a kid with spiked up hair and flip-flops and bad sunglasses.
not to mention that small sports sedans is the BMW trump cars and the 1 series should be a great car because of it. Also al of the mods you want are coming to the 135 in no time and someone here has already installed a piggyback with a remap on it, and is working on other stuff too.
:roundel: for me

[atr_hugo]

FWIW, (not much really), I'd feel more comfortable turning the Mistu into a track/race car. But that's because I see the 1er as being more of an occasional track day car, more of a serious sports coupe than racer.

How stripped was the Miata you raced?

[aminidab]

I think it really depends on what your goals are for the car. I think that the 135 will probably be easier to make more power with bolt ons and still be reliable (larger engine, lower stock boost) than the EVO, but the EVO will handle better in the turns.
With either car I'd expect you can correct any deficiencies fairly easily.
The EVO definitely has more tuner history but I think the 135 will have a lot of tuning options in the next few months.
If you're really looking for more of an all out track car I'd go with the EVO, if you want more of a DD/track car I'd go with the 135.
I went through this as well between the 135/EVO and STI. I hate the way the STI looks and it doesn't perform significantly better so that wasn't an option. I went with the 135 since I wanted more of a daily driver that I plan to eventually turn into a track car.

[sndprssr]

Originally Posted by aminidab

...reliable (larger engine, lower stock boost)...

While technically you are correct in saying the stock boost is lower, it is only about .2 PSI lower so you can't really use that as a factor in reliability. The stock Evo X is supposedly at 11.8 PSI and according to the N54 engine sticky the stock turbos on the 135 are running at .8 bar which is roughly 11.6 PSI.

[gargoyal]

Are you going to compete in time attacks or just go-fast-for-fun at the track ? For competition they are in two different classes. 6 cylinder FI vs. 4 cylinder FI .

Unless you are a real good driver, my guess is you will have more fun with the 135. The EVO is a high revving car with a single turbo. You need to keep the revs high to keep it in boost and the HP at the wheels. This is a real pain in the butt in autocross. One miss shift and you blow your time trial. Because of twin turbo the 135 will have a lot more power and torque at lower revs. This will not only make it a quicker car in autocross, but much more forgiving. This will allow you to focus on driving.

The 135 will compete against turbo and supercharge 350Zs ,so you will have to tune it. I'm thinking you will need about 350-400 hp to make i competitive. that’s some scary power. To go with that kind of power I think you will have lots of tuning to do.

EVO’s are bad a$$, IF YOU A GREAT DIVER. My money is on a modded 135 to be a better track car, but then again they are not in the same class.

[R32]

my guess would be that you would find driving an awd car on the track not that appealing. almost too easy.

just from my own limited experience, i feel that driving an awd car on the track has made me very careless with the throttle, as my car simply will not allow throttle-on oversteer. although fun (and relatively easy), the "gas is the cure" driving style is a little inelegant.

so, i look forward to the 1 and learning how to really drive. enough power to really steer the car with the throttle and not feel like a chump on the straights (no offense to the miata)!

[aminidab]

Originally Posted by sndprssr

While technically you are correct in saying the stock boost is lower, it is only about .2 PSI lower so you can't really use that as a factor in reliability. The stock Evo X is supposedly at 11.8 PSI and according to the N54 engine sticky the stock turbos on the 135 are running at .8 bar which is roughly 11.6 PSI.

Interesting I didn't know the difference was that small. I'd compare the compression ratios but then the EVO is 9.0:1 and the N54 is 10.7:1. That doesn't account for the direct injection though, so it's tough to say which can safely run more boost.
Although if you assume they can run the same amount of boost safely (since they run nearly the same boost from the factory) the bigger engine will still make more power.

[imported_Katera]

Better tuner car? Err, chip remap for 80+hp to a total of 384hp before ANY physical mods like exhaust? And still keep full warranty? Err, 135i4thewin without question imo.

[sndprssr]

Originally Posted by aminidab

Interesting I didn't know the difference was that small. I'd compare the compression ratios but then the EVO is 9.0:1 and the N54 is 10.7:1. That doesn't account for the direct injection though, so it's tough to say which can safely run more boost.

I would think the N54 would be able to hold more and if you were really worried about it you could have some lower compression pistons made. Weisco used to make custom forged pistons if you sent them all the info they needed. Either way, if you came close to maxing out the boost (properly tuned) in either car you would be making INSANE amounts of power and would, without a doubt, no longer have a street legal car (or even one good for anything but drag or rally racing for that matter).

[grant]

EVO handles better and has all-weather ability. 135i has far superior motor and better gearbox - pick your poison...

[imported_Katera]

Originally Posted by grant

EVO handles better and has all-weather ability. 135i has far superior motor and better gearbox - pick your poison...

Mitsubishi vs BMW

Hmmm....

[Viper]

Originally Posted by atr_hugo

FWIW, (not much really), I'd feel more comfortable turning the Mistu into a track/race car. But that's because I see the 1er as being more of an occasional track day car, more of a serious sports coupe than racer.

How stripped was the Miata you raced?

my miata tiped the scales at 2100 lbs (it had almost nothing left in it!) and it had 170 hp. My miata was blistering fast, and if you are really serious about racing, a miata is the way to go. they are extremely cheap, and extremely tunable (not to mention there are alot of racing series for them). My new toy is a 2001 Viper GTS ACR, and that car is a handfull on the track (no abs and no traction control). If you really want to learn how to drive a car, buy a Viper, it is the closest thing to a race car. But I want an everyday car that can double as a fun track car.

[Viper]

Originally Posted by R32

my guess would be that you would find driving an awd car on the track not that appealing. almost too easy.

just from my own limited experience, i feel that driving an awd car on the track has made me very careless with the throttle, as my car simply will not allow throttle-on oversteer. although fun (and relatively easy), the "gas is the cure" driving style is a little inelegant.

so, i look forward to the 1 and learning how to really drive. enough power to really steer the car with the throttle and not feel like a chump on the straights (no offense to the miata)!

You hit the nail on the head. AWD is a much easier way of getting around, and for that fact, less fun. But the evo can pull 1.2 g's on the skid pad...that is one CRAZY number. many supercars cannot even generate that much grip. just to give you an idea a 135i can generate about .9 g's...which is still alot.

[Viper]

Originally Posted by aminidab

I think it really depends on what your goals are for the car. I think that the 135 will probably be easier to make more power with bolt ons and still be reliable (larger engine, lower stock boost) than the EVO, but the EVO will handle better in the turns.
With either car I'd expect you can correct any deficiencies fairly easily.
The EVO definitely has more tuner history but I think the 135 will have a lot of tuning options in the next few months.
If you're really looking for more of an all out track car I'd go with the EVO, if you want more of a DD/track car I'd go with the 135.
I went through this as well between the 135/EVO and STI. I hate the way the STI looks and it doesn't perform significantly better so that wasn't an option. I went with the 135 since I wanted more of a daily driver that I plan to eventually turn into a track car.

your right, the 135i is alot nicer looking than the evo and the sti. anyways a BMW is alot more special than a Japanese sedan that is turned into a tuner. i think the 135i will be recognized as a return to BMW's history, while the evo will be just another japanese creation.

[randomquickness]

if you will use it as a DD I would say bmw for the comfort. if you had another car as a DD and just want a track b*tch go with the evo.

[R32]

Originally Posted by Viper

But the evo can pull 1.2 g's on the skid pad...that is one CRAZY number. many supercars cannot even generate that much grip. just to give you an idea a 135i can generate about .9 g's...which is still alot.

true, but the stock tires on an evo (not sure about the X's, but at least the IX's) are yoko advans, 120 treadwear and as close to a slick as you'll ever find on a street car (911 gt3 has michelin pilot sport cups).

i'd like to see what the 135i would do on a skidpad with the same tires- i bet it would close that gap significantly.

[adc]

Originally Posted by sndprssr

While technically you are correct in saying the stock boost is lower, it is only about .2 PSI lower so you can't really use that as a factor in reliability. The stock Evo X is supposedly at 11.8 PSI and according to the N54 engine sticky the stock turbos on the 135 are running at .8 bar which is roughly 11.6 PSI.

Must be a typo. Stock, the N54 runs up to 8 PSI (.5 bar) with occasional overboost reserve up to 11 PSI. The reserve is used to compensate for altitude, temp, barometric pressure etc. (and Juice Boxes :wink. It is an extremely low boost engine compared to all the other turbo systems on the market.

[Mikebuzzsaw]

I think you are leaning towards 135i. You should get it. You'll buy an evo and think 'why didn't I buy the 135i?

Plus I think the 135i is well rounded. Great daily driver, great track car, and very tunable. A dinan remap similar to the 335i will boost u 80hp.

[grant]

Originally Posted by adc

It is an extremely low boost engine compared to all the other turbo systems on the market.

Yes, and if you compare the static compression ratios of the two engines, it will become obvious why (135i motor has MUCH higher compression due to direct injection, so it takes less boost to get to high overall cylinder compression).

As far as the 135i vs. EVO X debate, the most intriguing advantages of the EVO are the much better headroom (enough for helmet), fancy AWD that prevents any sort of understeer (this is the new Active Yaw Control introduced in the X for the USA), more room for people/stuff, standard LSD, and great all-weather safety and fun.

If the EVO had the 135i's motor and gearbox, that would be my choice without hesitation...