[CC 330i]

Originally Posted by cosmosblau

First of all, these aren't bright people in general. Even BMW salesmen are usually under-educated. Almost NONE of them have college degrees, and they don't make much. They deal with rich people every day (and they do their credit apps, so they know EXACTLY how much we make), and are unfortunately resentful. Their bonuses allow them to get a BMW for themselves to drive and it's all contingent on the bullshit "5" rating.

When I bought my car, I had a multitude of problems. When I complained, The manager told my saleswoman to "Let him go" for fear that I would give them a bad rating. They would rather sacrifice the sale then get a bad rating.

I have decided that I will give them no rating at all, since the rating system is corrupt.

Well when I was doing sales (not car sales mind you) I can remember my manager saying that sometimes it's better to lose a customer than to have a "bad"customer. Some people will make a company's (or dealership's) life miserable, since they are miserable people, and misery loves company.

My friend's dad down the street is the Bentley North America VP of Service. It's his job to resolve problems with the ultra-rich people that want a brand new Bentley when their dashboard creaks, or they have some other minor problem. He says that the rich people are the worst complainers and want the most "favors".

BMW dealerships must have it the worst, because many BMW buyers are not "ultra rich" and thus many are engineers and those that have technical knowledge and are "techies" themselves. (like me for example). So we have SOME money, but also are very hard workers and expect the most for our money.

As an engineer, and as someone who has also done sales, I simply find it inexcusable that anybody selling a $40K piece of equipment could not explain every user-controllable option on the car. I don't care if it is new or not. If I can get fired up and learn about something, the person that is selling it better get fired up about it too, or they should expect NO BONUS from me or anyone else.

It was my job as a sales rep to know and explain (so that we could competitively sell against our competitors) every detail of our products. AND our products usually cost less than any BMW.

I shopped around until I found a very good salesperson, and then made sure they got the sale. I helped them locate the exact car I wanted at another dealership, and had them trade for it. Then I was happy to give all 5s.

[fusionnv]

Originally Posted by CC 330i

Yes I really don't think it's too much to ask, when buying a huge capital investment like a car, for the salesperson to know more than the buyer. It's really pitiful. I get a kick out of how so many car salespeople know very little about cars in general, much less the ones they are selling.

When I order my car, at the time the sales person knew everything in the training manual and everything about the car on paper but never seen the e90 except for maybe 1-2 twice at a dealer demo. At that point I knew more because of the internet and how resourceful this forum is at times in finding out information. I kinda don't blame her because it is a new car and it didn't even come out yet. I am sure it takes a bit of time to learn every little thing of the car from memory. But of course if she didn't know anything about the old 3. That is a different story!!!

It was kinda funny because she knew the old 3, 5, and 7 well. When she was showing me features of the new 3 we had to go from car to car of the series to show me stuff.

[e90fanatic]

Originally Posted by cosmosblau

First of all, these aren't bright people in general. Even BMW salesmen are usually under-educated. Almost NONE of them have college degrees, and they don't make much. They deal with rich people every day (and they do their credit apps, so they know EXACTLY how much we make), and are unfortunately resentful. Their bonuses allow them to get a BMW for themselves to drive and it's all contingent on the bullshit "5" rating.

When I bought my car, I had a multitude of problems. When I complained, The manager told my saleswoman to "Let him go" for fear that I would give them a bad rating. They would rather sacrifice the sale then get a bad rating.

I have decided that I will give them no rating at all, since the rating system is corrupt.

yea...I think somebody should tell these car companies that the surveys have already been pointless when they are handling it this way. But yea, even Best Buy are trying to weed out "bad customers". This is a BS initiative because instead of trying to find their weakness and make it a strength, they just give up and stop making business. These business models are going to soon show these fools that the business they are running will no longer be as successful. Certainly from a business standpoint, there are "bad customers" but you can always have a way to solve their issues. Loose the business or sale is just plain stupid and that shows you that the merchant rather have $ than people and they are just lazy @sses. $ is important but it's not how to make the most $. And secondly, I just think they are waiting for a jackpot sale (huge profit) otherwise they rather sit and mold.

Just my 2 cents

[silverado]

Originally Posted by OdyClubMember

Here is how the scoring works for both the sales and the service departments.....
1 2 3 4 5
1=0% 2=25% 3=50% 4=75% 5=100%
Where I went to scool a 75% would be D on my report card.
If I as a service advisor or a saleman received a D on my report card from you I would be very upset.

That's pretty strange scoring. 1 equals zero?! 75% equals D?! I think the above is an extremely lob-sided evaluation of the scoring system and I say that most if not all customers would not think of it this way.

To me, 1 is terrible service, 3 is average service (i.e., I could get this service anywhere) and 5 is outstanding service that leaves nothing to be desired. They should learn to interpret what people mean, not try to teach the customer a strange new way to value things.

It's simple: A B C D F, not A D F F F

[ssam]

what are we talking about here?
it s not a matter of rich or poor people...it s just a matter of respect...this guy doesn t respect you...he is treating you as shit...and you are still asking yourself if you should report his behavior to bmw NA and to his boss?

if you don t react strongly to this guy who is threatening you, not only you will feel bad each time you go to bmw but you will lose your self respect !!

AT LEAST WE SHOULD SEND AN EMAIL TO YOUR DEALER BOSS ASKING HIM TO READ THIS FORUM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!

what do you guy think?

[drfluid]

Based on LWL's experience with the dealership, telling his boss wouldn't be that helpful to improve the attitude of this salesperson.

[Dani]

I have to say I think the existence of this thread has probably done enough harm to the dealership's business that there is no need to act. except mabe post a link to this thread on some other forums...

[aloyouis]

I thought it was just me!

When the calls came (3 of them!) after i bought my e90 I was asked many questions. I gave a 5 on every one of them except one. My sales person had promised me that my cell phone would work "no problem" if I added BMW assist and got the bluetooth. He was wrong. It did not work at the time it was delivered and he showed only this smallest working knowledge about making it work. I actually found a way to make it work myself and stopped by the dealership on my way home to tell him about it and show him. He was pleased. He even went to get a service manager to tell HIM about it. The service manager could not have been more rude to me. He repeatedly told me that it would not work at all. I invited him out to the car but he would have nothing of it. I pretty much left pissed off. My sales person was obviously embarressed as he called me within a 1/2 hour to apologize. I appreciated that.

Here is where things get screwy. When the next call came I answered everything as a 5 except the one question that did not seem to relate to him at all. It had to do with the service manager. Even with his rudness, I gave that one question a 4. Three seperate calls from BMW and one 4. I wish I could attach the voicemail my sales person left for me. He told me that I really "screwed him over after all he had done for me". That is a quote!

I called him and his attitude was no better. I explained to him that I had given one 4 and not about him. He told me it didn't matter. He told me that because of me he was paying me to buy the car due to the penalty he was paying to the dealer for getting a 4! Can you believe this? Then he told me not to sweat it saying "I forgive you". He forgave me?????!!!!!!

Needless to say I was beside myself. I remain beside myself.

This entire system BMW uses is a sham.

JIM

[YYdoodle]

aloyouis that's ridiculous. These salesman act as if you're serving them. After reading through all this it really seems BMW needs to do something about their system because it's causing some buyers to have terrible expereinces like the ones posted here. I hope someone from BMW is reading this.

[e90fanatic]

If I have received that email from any salesmen, I would have gone to the next level and get him fired. Personally I find it extremely unprofessional. 4's does cost the dealer and salesman but that was at their own fault for not meeting their customers' needs. It's funny how people look at things. Perhaps some education in high school would have helped.

On the other hand, I guess I'm lucky because the people I've been dealing with are very nice and efficient. Definitely meet my expectations.

[redthree]

I would take that letter, make a copy of it and send it to BMW headquarters and ask them if that is what they expect of a dealership and will BMW accept this sort of behavior and what are they going to do about it. I would also ask them if the customer is supposed to give his real opinion or just say what will make the dealer look good. I would ask BMW how you, the all important customer, are now supposed to have your car serviced since you have been invited to not come back, or words to that effect. I would be mad as hell to get a letter like that and would not accept it without some sort of action on my part.

redthree

[NaTuReB0Y]

Anything below a 5 is considered FAILURE according to BMW. My salesperson calls and emails me everyday pleading for all 5's on his survey.....I might just give him a 4 just for being annoying!

[BMW 2006]

I gave my salesperson all 5's except for one question which was a 2. Dealer was pissed! Said they lost a lot of $$$'s! The question was an opinion about the actual dealership! I gave them a 2 because they screw up! NOT my fault!

[BMW 2006]

Interested to see how many of us had problems with our dealership which we purchased our cars from, in the customer phone call grading from 1-5. After giving the Dealership a less than 5 grading that the dealer contacted us stating they have lost a lot of $$$$ because of this??

[onesixeight]

Originally Posted by BMW 2006

Interested to see how many of us had problems with our dealership which we purchased our cars from, in the customer phone call grading from 1-5. After giving the Dealership a less than 5 grading that the dealer contacted us stating they have lost a lot of $$$$ because of this??

Whenever these guys say their losing a bunch of money, they are B.S.'ing you. Take a guess to how much their loosing from your giving a 4 instead of a 5...it's like $60 bucks. Sure, that's money...but to confront customers like that and make it seem like they've lost their job is just a show.

[Athos]

That BMW regards anything less than a 5 a failure is ridiculous. If that were the case there should only be a binary system--pass/fail. That dealerships try to lobby and coerce customers to give them a top grade is unseemly.

Why would any customer participate in a system that is clearly absurd? In a customer-centric business, the point of a feedback system should be to identify potential areas for improvement (to better satisfy future customers). BMW's system doesn't serve their customers because dealers are only concerned about not failing--this doesn't help them focus on getting info to improve. Therefore it doesn't help customers.

The only way out is not to participate and to explain to BMW why.

[stressdoc]

What evaluation system would work? If BMW NA is interested in getting information that is useful, how could they best do that? Looks to me like the 'objective' 1-5 rating protocol is worse than worthless. Whoever was in charge of managing that component of public relations ought to be reassigned/sent back to college. Probably a classic situation of taking the cheap and easy way -- and the manager looked good with his/her powerpoint presentations. Maybe they were dumb enough to have hired an outside consulting firm. What might work for GM may not be a good idea for BMW. They need to get this sorted out quickly and effectively. If I were on the board I would start with hiring E90Fleet to do a qualitative assessment. See what new buyers are willing to put up with in terms of questions -- look at all the time we spend on this list blathering about our beloved! What a priceless data set!

[Jesse Wilson]

I had several delays and a scratch on my car when I picked it up. I still gave them all fives becuase my salesman was so nice and got me a car to use and took car of the scratch right away as good as new. I would have given several 4's or lower but because of this thread I knew how the rating system worked and didn't. I would have assumed the ABCDF scale and would have been wrong.

Jesse

[NaTuReB0Y]

My dealer calls/emails me pleading for all 5's......plus they even sent me a box of some expensive chocalate UPS delivery....with a note......asking for all 5's.......

off course.....I gave them all 5's.........hahahahaha!

[sirees01]

Originally Posted by JBOO

The only thing I would counter is that if you did tell the guy you would give him 5's, then he would fee betrayed or lied to. I'm sure that would be upsetting.

Come on Guys, let's all put our hands up & say how many times a Salesman has lied to us customers.

[E90]

It is quite stupid system you have.I have never ever seen a car salesman doing his job for a 5.I rather say that 3 is most what I think.I have bought different cars for over 35 years.Car salespersons are the lazyest people to deal with. You have to score what you think is the best for him.He should not beg for highest score if he cannot show something really fine work.

[ON325i]

for comparsion, in volvo, if u don't give EXCELLENCE for service rating, the salesperson gets fired.