[charln]

Guys, I would really appreciate your advice on this one...

So I received my new E90 325i about 3 weeks ago (see earlier review), and in general I'm extremely happy BUT there are still some unresolved issues (small problems). I've been trying to have these sorted, but things have reached a stage where I'm starting to get really upset with the dealer and BMW South Africa.

The dealer made me wait for 3 hours while they tried to 'fix' some of these problems during delivery. The car should have been checked before delivery!!!
They then made arrangements for the car to be repaired by a BMW dealer (SMG) in my home town. These guys had the car for 2 full days, then called to say they've fixed most of the problems. However, when I collected the car they had not fixed a single issue on my list, and managed to get greasy fingerprints all over my new beige leather!

Here's a copy of my email to the dealer (Autobahn BMW) and BMW SA:

Hi Dumisani,

To date this has been an extremely disappointing experience with my new BMW. As I mentioned to you last night, I have now reached a stage where I am unhappy to own this vehicle.

Herewith a review of the issues I’ve had to date:
1) Initial problem with order specifications – had to re-order and wait additional 5 weeks for a vehicle.
2) Vehicle malfunction during delivery: Navigation malfunction + Bluetooth malfunction.
3) Due to the malfunction, the delivery process took approx. 3 hours. As a result of this delay, I missed my next appointment.
4) Minor scratches on trunk lid.
5) I’ve had the car for almost 2 weeks, yet I still have not received a manual nor instructions for operation of Bluetooth or iDrive.
6) After attempted repair by SMG, Navigation and Bluetooth are still faulty.
7) Car key memory still not operational after attempted activation by SMG.
8) Sporadic iDrive ‘black-outs’, lengthy delays and screen ‘freezes’.
9) Grease marks on leather interior after attempted repair by SMG.

As I’ve mentioned before, it was not an easy decision to go for the 325i with many extras (including Prof. Navigation, Bluetooth, etc.). The cost of the extras pushed the price of the vehicle to R 20k above the cost of a 330i. For this price I expect the car and all the functions to operate 100%, all the time.

If BMW are not capable of building a vehicle that works as it should, they should not be selling these vehicles, and I do most certainly not want to own one. This is not what I ordered or paid for.

Apart from the obvious disappointment and inconvenience of not having the proper car that I paid for, I have also had to spend time and money on many phone calls. Although the arrangements were very well planned by Autobahn, I still had to spend more than 3 hours of my (work) time to try and get the car sorted out by SMG Durban. And after all that, they have failed to fix even a single issue on the list. And I’ve been without the brand new car for 2 days!

This is reflecting very poorly on BMW, both from the point of supplying faulty vehicles, and from the aspect that they are apparently not capable, nor very concerned, about getting the faults fixed. I have become seriously disillusioned with the BMW brand as a result of this mess.

My recommendation is that BMW SA replace this vehicle with a new one that operates as it should - if they are capable of building a vehicle without problems, and if they are serious about customer satisfaction.


After the mail I called BMW SA to follow up. The 'case manager' said he accepted my issues, and since the car was only 2 weeks old, he suggested they would make arrangements for a replacement to be ordered.

However, the next day he called back to say they (BMW SA) had changed their mind and would not replace the vehicle. He said that the final quality check is with the dealer, and since they should not have released the faulty car, it is now up to the dealer to replace the car. Of course the dealer flatly refused. All telephone calls are recorded, so the dealer requested that the tape be reviewed and it did indeed prove that BMW offered to replace the car - yet they would not budge!

I've since agreed to give them another attept to repair the vehicle again (3rd time lucky?), but I have requested a guarantee that the car would be replaced if they were not able to fix the problems completely.
Both the dealer and BMW SA have refused, stating that the vehicle is on a full maintenance contract, and since the problems are 'minor', they would continue to attempt to repair the vehicle for as long as it takes!

I'm seriously pissed with this attitude, but don't know what else to do. All I'm asking for is to have a car which works 100% as it is supposed to - this is what I paid for.
Am I being unreasonable?
Please tell me how you guys would handle this...

[E90Fleet]

They do seem like mostly dealers issues

From your list

1) Dealer made mistake in ordering
2) Did dealer set up the car correctly?
3) Dealers fault
4) Did dealer wash the car ? They probably scratched it since the factory is very strict on paint
5)Dealer was supposed to supply them on pickup
6)What is the fault ? Maybe we can help
7)Not available yet, software still comming
8) Its a Idrive thing, later software geneally fixes such early problems
9)Dealers fault


Please describe your problems to us

As far as I have read they seem like little software bugs that should be fixed in the near future by software updates

[viperssd]

That is terrible, are there any "Lemon" laws there like we have in the states?

[E90Fleet]

Originally Posted by viperssd

That is terrible, are there any "Lemon" laws there like we have in the states?

From what he has described this car isnt even close to USA lemon laws

[viperssd]

I assumed he was 1 more attempted repair away, here in Pennsylvania if they can't fix the same problem in 3 tries or if the car is in the shop for more than 30 days, it falls under the Lemon Law. (First attemp to fix nav on delivery, second time was a scheduled service appointment)

Either way, this isn't as bad as my brothers truck which was in the shop for 3.5 weeks straight about a week after he bought it new. After that 3.5 weeks they ended up replacing most of his electronics (harness, computer, radio, HVAC) so that they could kick it out the door before 30 days was up.

[E90Fleet]

Originally Posted by viperssd

I assumed he was 1 more attempted repair away, here in Pennsylvania if they can't fix the same problem in 3 tries or if the car is in the shop for more than 30 days, it falls under the Lemon Law. (First attemp to fix nav on delivery, second time was a scheduled service appointment)

Either way, this isn't as bad as my brothers truck which was in the shop for 3.5 weeks straight about a week after he bought it new. After that 3.5 weeks they ended up replacing most of his electronics (harness, computer, radio, HVAC) so that they could kick it out the door before 30 days was up.

The "repairs" the lemon laws refer to dont pertain to small software glitches like these

It took pretty major problems on some of the first E65 7 Series for Lemon law to make BMW buy them back

[viperssd]

It varies quite a bit from state to state, some require the faults to prevent or severely limit the use of the car. Some are far more lenient towards the customer. I assume that is why lawyers are necessary in many of these cases.

Edit: What were the major issues with the 7 series? I have read that they were very poor reliability-wise, but couldn't seem to find out why (seemed to stand out to a few auto magazines since their residual values were still really high).

[E90Fleet]

Originally Posted by viperssd

It varies quite a bit from state to state, some require the faults to prevent or severely limit the use of the car. Some are far more lenient towards the customer. I assume that is why lawyers are necessary in many of these cases.

Edit: What were the major issues with the 7 series? I have read that they were very poor reliability-wise, but couldn't seem to find out why (seemed to stand out to a few auto magazines since their residual values were still really high).

The problems varied widely, but most cars were fine

Some of the small problems were things like headrests electrically adjusting their height suddenly while drving and Idrive freezes

Bigger problems were engines loosing power or refusing to rev over say 4,000 RPM

95% of problems were fixed via software upgrades


Merc and Audi have had similar problems with their recent cars

Even Microsoft cannot get it right

[Broken1]

Originally Posted by charln

I'm seriously pissed with this attitude, but don't know what else to do. All I'm asking for is to have a car which works 100% as it is supposed to - this is what I paid for.
Am I being unreasonable?
Please tell me how you guys would handle this...

BMW won't replace the car due to some software issues. The ABSOLUTE BEST you will get is them replacing the navigation control units/idrive stuff...but that will only be after alot of begging/pleeding and getting the factory rep to meet you at the dealer etc *sigh* it's alot of hassle

This is what I would do:

Phone BMW SA on their customer care line...or the care manager you spoke to. Tell them to arrange with SMG BMW Durban to have your car fixed in a time convinient to you. DEMAND that they give you an E90 loan car (the dealer does have demo's or BMW SA must supply one) and tell them they have one week (7 days ie monday to monday) to fix it. I would also ask them to get the boot proffessionally polished to remove the scratches. Tell them that if the car isn't fixed, you will expect a new one as 7 days is plenty of time to fix the major problems. (Suggest tounge in cheeck that they send it back to the factory).

If you get the car back still broken, demand to meet the factory rep so that you can discuss the car with him. In my experience, he can authorize non-maintence fixes and car replacements.

I would also demand appology letters from Autobahn BMW and BMW SA and I would email the WHOLE story using very firm words to Autobahn BMW (Dealer Principle), SMG BMW (Dealer Principle), BMW SA (Owners Cirlce Prompt Response) and BMW AG Germany Customer Care (marked priority/important)

Through all my dealings with BMW SA, I have always had excellent prompt service. When JSN motors treated me like a nob, i emailed BMW Sa and they got me 2 appologies, a complementary (bad tasting) bottle of BMW wine and my car fixed.

The biggest problem you have is that these "broken bits" don't affect the car in any safety terms or driving terms - the "primary use" a car is for. They are unlikely to replace it.

Good luck! And let us know how this all folds out.

I can be contacted on broken1@e90post.com if you think I can help you in any other way...

[Broken1]

Ps. You technically only have 3 problems.

1) Idrive/navigation doesn't work
2) Bluetooth doesn't work (now this might be cause you don't know how to use it, or you are using a non-approved phone)
3) The car key memory doesn't work - again...what aspects of it don't work...maybe you are "expecting" incorrect things to happen? (Like the seats don't automatically adjust when you are unlocking)

4) The boot scratches, as E90Fleet pointed out - were most likely from Autobahn BMW washing your car.


The lack of correct manuals, grease marks and wrong order proccessing (even the scratches to an extent) are just bad service from the dealers! Unfortunately, it seems you've picked the worst bunch to work with. Hyde Park Auto and Autobavaria Midrand are the best dealers this side of town IMO with JSN a close second (except that one time...*cringe*) - have no clue about durban!

[thrill30]

Originally Posted by charln

Guys, I would really appreciate your advice on this one...

So I received my new E90 325i about 3 weeks ago (see earlier review), and in general I'm extremely happy BUT there are still some unresolved issues (small problems). I've been trying to have these sorted, but things have reached a stage where I'm starting to get really upset with the dealer and BMW South Africa.

The dealer made me wait for 3 hours while they tried to 'fix' some of these problems during delivery. The car should have been checked before delivery!!!
They then made arrangements for the car to be repaired by a BMW dealer (SMG) in my home town. These guys had the car for 2 full days, then called to say they've fixed most of the problems. However, when I collected the car they had not fixed a single issue on my list, and managed to get greasy fingerprints all over my new beige leather!

Here's a copy of my email to the dealer (Autobahn BMW) and BMW SA:

Hi Dumisani,

To date this has been an extremely disappointing experience with my new BMW. As I mentioned to you last night, I have now reached a stage where I am unhappy to own this vehicle.

Herewith a review of the issues I’ve had to date:
1) Initial problem with order specifications – had to re-order and wait additional 5 weeks for a vehicle.
2) Vehicle malfunction during delivery: Navigation malfunction + Bluetooth malfunction.
3) Due to the malfunction, the delivery process took approx. 3 hours. As a result of this delay, I missed my next appointment.
4) Minor scratches on trunk lid.
5) I’ve had the car for almost 2 weeks, yet I still have not received a manual nor instructions for operation of Bluetooth or iDrive.
6) After attempted repair by SMG, Navigation and Bluetooth are still faulty.
7) Car key memory still not operational after attempted activation by SMG.
8) Sporadic iDrive ‘black-outs’, lengthy delays and screen ‘freezes’.
9) Grease marks on leather interior after attempted repair by SMG.

As I’ve mentioned before, it was not an easy decision to go for the 325i with many extras (including Prof. Navigation, Bluetooth, etc.). The cost of the extras pushed the price of the vehicle to R 20k above the cost of a 330i. For this price I expect the car and all the functions to operate 100%, all the time.

If BMW are not capable of building a vehicle that works as it should, they should not be selling these vehicles, and I do most certainly not want to own one. This is not what I ordered or paid for.

Apart from the obvious disappointment and inconvenience of not having the proper car that I paid for, I have also had to spend time and money on many phone calls. Although the arrangements were very well planned by Autobahn, I still had to spend more than 3 hours of my (work) time to try and get the car sorted out by SMG Durban. And after all that, they have failed to fix even a single issue on the list. And I’ve been without the brand new car for 2 days!

This is reflecting very poorly on BMW, both from the point of supplying faulty vehicles, and from the aspect that they are apparently not capable, nor very concerned, about getting the faults fixed. I have become seriously disillusioned with the BMW brand as a result of this mess.

My recommendation is that BMW SA replace this vehicle with a new one that operates as it should - if they are capable of building a vehicle without problems, and if they are serious about customer satisfaction.


After the mail I called BMW SA to follow up. The 'case manager' said he accepted my issues, and since the car was only 2 weeks old, he suggested they would make arrangements for a replacement to be ordered.

However, the next day he called back to say they (BMW SA) had changed their mind and would not replace the vehicle. He said that the final quality check is with the dealer, and since they should not have released the faulty car, it is now up to the dealer to replace the car. Of course the dealer flatly refused. All telephone calls are recorded, so the dealer requested that the tape be reviewed and it did indeed prove that BMW offered to replace the car - yet they would not budge!

I've since agreed to give them another attept to repair the vehicle again (3rd time lucky?), but I have requested a guarantee that the car would be replaced if they were not able to fix the problems completely.
Both the dealer and BMW SA have refused, stating that the vehicle is on a full maintenance contract, and since the problems are 'minor', they would continue to attempt to repair the vehicle for as long as it takes!

I'm seriously pissed with this attitude, but don't know what else to do. All I'm asking for is to have a car which works 100% as it is supposed to - this is what I paid for.
Am I being unreasonable?
Please tell me how you guys would handle this...

No, you are not being unreasonable at all. You paid for the car, and they should give you what you paid for.

- Some members in this forum might be able to assist you with your Navigation and Bluetooth problems. Please give details of the malfunctions you were referring to.

- What cellphone make and model are you using to connect through Bluetooth?

- As for the scratch, just ask the dealer to get it polished. This can be easily fixed, and it's relatively cheap.

[charln]

Thanks for all the replies and advice guys.

Ok, I'll attempt to describe the problems in more detail...

NAVIGATION
- At delivery the navi wouldn't work at all. We would enter any destination, and the screen would show 'calculating route' for a few seconds, then return to the original navi menu. No map, no directions, no error message, no nothing... The technicians tried for 3 hours, but couldn't get it working at all.
They tried another E90 parked next to mine and it worked fine, so this was not a reception / coverage problem.
During my drive back to Durban I got it working (don't know how) - but my concern is that it did not work first time and why did it start working later?
- Navi often gives wrong directions, i.e. indicates that I must take an off-ramp when one doesn't exist.
- Sometimes it can't find a street name for the first one or two attempts, but finds it later.
- I have my work address as the destination (no, I don't have Alzheimer's - it calculates how late I'm going to be ). I always use the same route, but sometimes navi indicates a different route...?
- Occasional screen 'black-outs' as described below.

IDRIVE
- Sporadic screen black-outs. I'll be driving along when suddenly it just shuts down for a whille, then re-boots itself.
- Sometimes the screen freezes for a short time (longer than the normal delays).

BLUETOOTH
I bought a new phone specifically for this function, so I made sure the Motorola V3 is fully compatible as per the official BMW list.
- At delivery they were not able to pair my phone or even activate Bluetooth. The menu would not allow any Bluetooth options or functions. Again, during my drive back to Durban I got it working (don't know how) - but my concern is that it did not work first time and why did it start working later?
- When I display the A-Z list, I can only access the first page of names per letter. For example, I have 10 names starting with 'B', but the screen only shows the first page with 5 or 6 names. It doesn't allow me to scroll down to rest of the 'B' names. This applies to any letter, not just 'B'.
- My phone is paired but now it doesn't allow me to access the menus to add my wife's phone (also compatible).
- Sometimes I can't end a call, it freezes with the call timer running and no sound. I then have to actually switch off my phone to get it to disconnect.

Guys, I know that these aren't life-altering problems (some of you probably wouldn't even bother) but my view is that the car should work 100%, all of the time. This is what was advertised, and this is what I ordered and paid for. Small issues, glitches, hiccups and any other problems should not be part of the package. I paid for everything to work properly, and that's all I'm asking for.
The dealer or BMW would not accept if I had a few 'minor problems' with payment, would they? I can't say to them 'oh sorry, I've only paid part of the price, but it's not a major problem, so don't be difficult about it'.

The other minor 'dealer' issues all add to the total experience of buying a BMW, and quite frankly, I'm dissapointed.

My point is that this is a BMW, and we expect their products to live up to the reputation.
If I had bought a 'cheapie', I would not be so demanding, but for the purchase price (R 370k / $ 57k) I could have bought an apartment or small house here in South Africa. And before we go down that road, I do own house and I can afford the car, I'm merely illustrating the point of value.

Alternatively, BMW should make customers aware of the fact that they cannot assure that their vehicles will actually function as advertised. At least that way one can make an informed decision.
If they had told me about these likely issues beforehand, I would rather have ordered the base 330i (without all the 'gadgets') and saved some money.

What makes it worse is the attitude from BMW and the dealer. They say customers must realise and accept that these are mechanical products, and there is always a chance that something can be faulty. I can't believe this response - what if the brakes or steering had a minor problem!!! Either the car works as it should or it doesn't, it shouldn't matter which component it applies to. What if a 'minor' software issue crept into the engine management, brakes, DTC or even the airbags?!

My point is that BMW should have a foolproof quality assurance system in place to thoroughly check all their vehicles before delivering them to customers. And if this process ever fails, they should implement corrective action to address the root cause. For goodness sake, if they know there are problems with iDrive, then tell customers beforehand, and make sure to find a proper solution.

Perhaps I'm being too difficult or expecting too much - what do you think...?

[charln]

Oh I forgot - the navigation address book also doesn't work. I can't save anything or even access this function.

[E90Fleet]

Your problems sound very similar to what a couple of the early 6 Series had

It was caused by a faulty CCC computer ( radio and navigation computer )


Has a BMW SA motorplan rep seen your car yet ?
Reccomend to him a CCC replacement and a full software reload

Even if they wont replace the CCC ask for a full software reload ( not a update a complete reload ). This has fixed a number of problems in the 5 Series

Keep us informed

[David328M-Sport]

i wonnder if your dealer originall initiated the gps in your car. in general and technical discussions with my dealer, he said that the techos sometimes have to drive a brand new e90 for quite some time before is picks up the satellites' triangulation signals to actually initialise the system.

it surprises me the based on your immediate problems, they didn't have the same hard time with the idrive. or perhaps they did and ignored it.

as for the phone, my v3 mated within seconds and all a-z items are fully operational.

thinking about your other issues with the id, it seems to me that you may have a corrupt os or possibly a hardware issue.

i hope that bmw sa or your dealer or someone fixes your problem quickly. it is so hard to fully enjoy this wonderful machine when such problems as yours exist.

however, it seems that your car is fully driveable with all of its passive and active safety systems working.

that you may have to be without gps & the car's bt for a short while is not major.

all the best with sorting the problems quickly.

[stressdoc]

"I would rather have ordered the base 330i (without all the 'gadgets') and saved some money."

Well put. I think BMW is in an awkward state of having to keep up with Lexus et al in the electronics luxury domain. BMWs drive great. I hope they do not lose focus on that aspect of their niche.

[charln]

BMW SA have offered to send a technician down from HO to come and look at the car. Thanks E90Fleet, I'll pass on your suggestions to him.

If they won't take the car back, I guess I'm stuck with it. I'll have to hope and trust they can fix it.
But what options do I have if they can't fix it...?

Thanks for the support guys. I'll keep you posted on progress.

[thrill30]

Originally Posted by charln

BMW SA have offered to send a technician down from HO to come and look at the car. Thanks E90Fleet, I'll pass on your suggestions to him.

If they won't take the car back, I guess I'm stuck with it. I'll have to hope and trust they can fix it.
But what options do I have if they can't fix it...?

Thanks for the support guys. I'll keep you posted on progress.

I really hope that technician will be able to sort your car out so that you can get back on the road with an E90-induced smile in the end.

My 2 cents:

- I'm also using a V3. I couldn't pair my V3 on delivery. The reason is that we were going to the "Communication" menu option. We were supposed to initialise Bluetooth connection first, by pressing the iDrive knob from the main menu, and then following the directions as set out on page 6 of the "Telephone" manual. If you haven't initialised Blutooth, the communication menu just says "Please activate your phone" or something to that effect. That menu only works after you have initialised Bluetooth. I suspect that's what you experienced during delivery.

- On the A-Z list, I've experienced something close to what you are describing, but you could be having a different issue. In my case I don't consider it a problem at all, but I will explain anyway:
When a list of contacts is displayed, and I scroll to the last visible entry on screen, the iDrive knob gives resistance if I try to scroll beyond the last entry. This could give a wrong impression that you have reached the end of the list. I just force it past the resistance point, and it goes to the next page without a problem.

- I've tried to pair a second phone and the menu options to do that were disabled. I thought about it and figured that it's actually correct to disallow a second phone to be added. I'm not saying that I know this for a fact, but that's how I explained it to myself. If they allow multiple phones to be paired at the same time, what would happen if you have two phones paired at the same time, and both phones receive calls?

Try the following:
To pair your wife's phone, first "un-pair" your phone. Then pair your wife's phone, so that only one phone is paired to the car.

- On the Blutooth/persistent counter problem ... yes I've had a similar issue once. My call was dropped for whatever reason, so I wanted to call the person I was talking to again and apologise for the dropped call. I then noticed that the car kept counting away when the call had already been dropped. Then I did the following:
1. I tried to cancel the counter from iDrive, but I couldn't... the counter went on and on...
2. I took out my V3 and looked at the screen. It looked like it was doing nothing, so I attempted to make a call directly from the V3. Nope, the phone couldn't make a call. It displayed some message "Call failed" or something to that effect.
3. I switched off the phone, and restarted it, and everything was fine again.
4. Because I'm biased, I concluded that the fault is probably with the phone and not with the car. Here is my simplistic view on this....and note that this is just my thought, and could turn out to be total bull... I won't take offence if anyone points out flaws in my reasoning below... after all, we should help/educate one another:
- In the scenario above, if the car is at fault, then the phone should have been able to make a call independently of the car, but it couldn't. That's why I'm leaning towards blaming the phone rather than the car, but I stand to be corrected. For me, this only happened once, so I'm not worried at all... and believe me, I make and receive a lot of phone calls per day, while I'm in the car.

[charln]

Thanks for the great info thrill30!

- You're right about the A-Z list: by 'forcing' the controller I can scroll down (very quickly!) to the rest of the entries on the page. It moves far too quickly and doesn't feel right though, like it's not supposed to be forced. Anyway, I'll let BMW check it out and advise if that's how it is supposed to be...

- I believe that you can 'register' up to 4 phones. The system will then automatically pair with the first phone on your list, if it is found. Alternatively, it allows you to manually switch (activate) to any of the 3 other listed phones. Obviously not all at the same time though. the benefit of this is when my wife uses my car to go on a long trip, the system will automatically pair with her phone when mine's not present. Quite neat, if I could get it to work...


Still waiting for BMW to make arrangements to check the car out (again)...

[thrill30]

Originally Posted by charln

Thanks for the great info thrill30!

- You're right about the A-Z list: by 'forcing' the controller I can scroll down (very quickly!) to the rest of the entries on the page. It moves far too quickly and doesn't feel right though, like it's not supposed to be forced. Anyway, I'll let BMW check it out and advise if that's how it is supposed to be...

- I believe that you can 'register' up to 4 phones. The system will then automatically pair with the first phone on your list, if it is found. Alternatively, it allows you to manually switch (activate) to any of the 3 other listed phones. Obviously not all at the same time though. the benefit of this is when my wife uses my car to go on a long trip, the system will automatically pair with her phone when mine's not present. Quite neat, if I could get it to work...

Still waiting for BMW to make arrangements to check the car out (again)...

Maybe a software update will reslove the issue of the iDrive controller giving resistance when one tries to scroll beyond the last displayed entry in the A-Z list... time will tell.

You are spot-on about registering multiple phones... I had not read the manual when I wrote my earlier comment about registering one phone at a time

I hope all goes well with your car.... let us know what the BMW guys say or do regarding problems in your E90.

[gazza19602000]

Hi sorry to hear about you problems,i live in the UK were we can refuse to take the car after the 3rd attempt to fix the problems, with the car being so new,you need to find out your rights seek some addvice on you rights sorry i can not help but good luck .By the way i have a two year old 325 with idrive and bluetooth and have similar problems with the idrive and my bluetooth has gone off so am off to BMW on monday might know more them good luck again.