BMW 1 Series Coupe Forum / 1 Series Convertible Forum (1M / tii / 135i / 128i / Coupe / Cabrio / Hatchback) (BMW E82 E88 128i 130i 135i)
 





 

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-05-2018, 03:48 PM   #1
The Wind Breezes
Lieutenant Colonel
912
Rep
1,850
Posts

Drives: 135i N55 DCT
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Meth jet size in charge pipe

Stock intercooler, downpipe, MHD stage 2 w/ 20/80 ethanol 93 mix. Max IAT seen, over 190*F!

Thinking about running a Snow #2 / 100ml nozzle in the charge pipe for more cooling. I did the math and it should reduce IAT about 20*, plus the anti detonation benefits. The car has no fueling issues without meth, so with this small amount there should be room for the stock safeties to work in the event of flow stoppage / uneven flow. I realize optimally I would spray a lot more meth, like a #5 nozzle, but I'm very concerned that much will satisfy the inner cylinders but leave the outers dangerously unsupplied.

So for those running meth on stock turbo for cooling, how much are you spraying?
Appreciate 0
      07-05-2018, 07:58 PM   #2
1and1
Loves me some MHD!
1and1's Avatar
United_States
1852
Rep
1,711
Posts

Drives: faster than he should...
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Tally, FL

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
'09 135i  [10.00]
Crazy idea here... I know I'm living on the edge...
but maybe run a decent intercooler? Anything is gonna be better than stock.
__________________
1and1
135i - E82.N54 2009 BSM - MHD / xHP / DCI, PR CP & 7.5" Race IC / N55 mid & Borla
. . WL RSFI, Koni, Eibach & Dinan CP's, M3 CA's / EBC Red's & Firehawk 500's
X1 - E84.N20 2013 MGM - JB4 - The Wife's, now with new turbo & ewg
Appreciate 0
      07-05-2018, 08:09 PM   #3
The Wind Breezes
Lieutenant Colonel
912
Rep
1,850
Posts

Drives: 135i N55 DCT
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1and1 View Post
Crazy idea here... I know I'm living on the edge...
but maybe run a decent intercooler? Anything is gonna be better than stock.
Yeah I'm gonna get a Evo II Comp but already have a meth kit and my "fun" budget for this month is already decimated by an electric motorcycle build.
Appreciate 1
1and11851.50
      07-06-2018, 10:53 AM   #4
Jeff@TopGearSolutions
Jeff@TopGearSolutions's Avatar
United_States
3441
Rep
79,212
Posts

Drives: C6 Z06, 09 335i, 10 335xi
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: www.TopGearSolutions.com

iTrader: (37)

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wind Breezes View Post
Stock intercooler, downpipe, MHD stage 2 w/ 20/80 ethanol 93 mix. Max IAT seen, over 190*F!

Thinking about running a Snow #2 / 100ml nozzle in the charge pipe for more cooling. I did the math and it should reduce IAT about 20*, plus the anti detonation benefits. The car has no fueling issues without meth, so with this small amount there should be room for the stock safeties to work in the event of flow stoppage / uneven flow. I realize optimally I would spray a lot more meth, like a #5 nozzle, but I'm very concerned that much will satisfy the inner cylinders but leave the outers dangerously unsupplied.

So for those running meth on stock turbo for cooling, how much are you spraying?
Most people in the typical FBO range run an M7 to M10 size nozzle. M10 (10 Gallon per hour) Runs about 940ml / min @ 200 PSI.

I run an M10 myself.
Appreciate 0
      07-06-2018, 11:34 AM   #5
The Wind Breezes
Lieutenant Colonel
912
Rep
1,850
Posts

Drives: 135i N55 DCT
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@TopGearSolutions View Post
Most people in the typical FBO range run an M7 to M10 size nozzle. M10 (10 Gallon per hour) Runs about 940ml / min @ 200 PSI.

I run an M10 myself.
And you run that in the charge pipe? That is a shit ton of meth. How can it be evenly distributed? You must have way more spraying into the cyls in front of the throttle body vs on the edge.
Appreciate 0
      07-19-2018, 03:05 PM   #6
Jeff@TopGearSolutions
Jeff@TopGearSolutions's Avatar
United_States
3441
Rep
79,212
Posts

Drives: C6 Z06, 09 335i, 10 335xi
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: www.TopGearSolutions.com

iTrader: (37)

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wind Breezes View Post
And you run that in the charge pipe? That is a shit ton of meth. How can it be evenly distributed? You must have way more spraying into the cyls in front of the throttle body vs on the edge.
This is the standard nozzle in this platform for this power range and majority of platforms. Atomizes and runs perfect.

Assuming 450-500hp at that boost, 1000 cc/min should be just right. The general rule of thumb is to run as much water/methanol as you can without inducing misfire. Monitor AFRs and air temps to see what effect different flow rates have.



It should probably be said that not only does boost affect flow but also your methanol to water mixtures are important.

For example if you were to just spray water, this would be entirely too much water. If someone were to run 100% water you'd run about an M1 or M2 nozzle.

I've ran as high as an M12 and M14 with no benefit on 80/20 Mix. I also ran a dual nozzle set up on my other car with an M5 and M7, that was just about perfect but probably could have gotten away with Dual M5's.

Last edited by Jeff@TopGearSolutions; 07-19-2018 at 03:11 PM..
Appreciate 0
      07-19-2018, 04:18 PM   #7
The Wind Breezes
Lieutenant Colonel
912
Rep
1,850
Posts

Drives: 135i N55 DCT
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@TopGearSolutions View Post
Atomizes and runs perfect.
How do you know that? Do you have per cylinder EGT / mixture measurement? Have you removed the manifold and actually tested the per runner flow on a bench? Let's see the results. Otherwise you are just guessing, and it is fallacious to say an engine "runs perfect" just because it hasn't blown up, yet.

Guys, I gave up on this idea. It's retarded and totally unnecessary. I agree with Corky Bell that water meth is for poorly setup combinations of turbo and fueling.

The CORRECT solution here is to get a good intercooler and run a higher octane fuel if necessary. After that, get a bigger turbo.
Appreciate 1
1and11851.50
      07-19-2018, 05:12 PM   #8
1and1
Loves me some MHD!
1and1's Avatar
United_States
1852
Rep
1,711
Posts

Drives: faster than he should...
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Tally, FL

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
'09 135i  [10.00]
The Light- It has been seen!

Any e85 where you are?
__________________
1and1
135i - E82.N54 2009 BSM - MHD / xHP / DCI, PR CP & 7.5" Race IC / N55 mid & Borla
. . WL RSFI, Koni, Eibach & Dinan CP's, M3 CA's / EBC Red's & Firehawk 500's
X1 - E84.N20 2013 MGM - JB4 - The Wife's, now with new turbo & ewg
Appreciate 0
      08-03-2018, 01:56 PM   #9
Jeff@TopGearSolutions
Jeff@TopGearSolutions's Avatar
United_States
3441
Rep
79,212
Posts

Drives: C6 Z06, 09 335i, 10 335xi
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: www.TopGearSolutions.com

iTrader: (37)

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wind Breezes View Post
How do you know that? Do you have per cylinder EGT / mixture measurement? Have you removed the manifold and actually tested the per runner flow on a bench? Let's see the results. Otherwise you are just guessing, and it is fallacious to say an engine "runs perfect" just because it hasn't blown up, yet.

Guys, I gave up on this idea. It's retarded and totally unnecessary. I agree with Corky Bell that water meth is for poorly setup combinations of turbo and fueling.

The CORRECT solution here is to get a good intercooler and run a higher octane fuel if necessary. After that, get a bigger turbo.
How do I know it? This is not my first rodeo.

No intercooler can combat IAT,increase effective octane, reduce EGT the same way as methanol injection. I dont need to prove it to you. I dont work for you. If you dont want to believe me that's your prerogative. Its just science. Look it up or try it yourself and do your own testing.

If picking up 50hp is retarded and unnecessary then that's your issue.

I've seen many of your posts. You have a very argumentative and combative attitude. I suggest you change it if you want people to help you. GL.
Appreciate 2
dcafs17.50
      08-03-2018, 02:40 PM   #10
The Wind Breezes
Lieutenant Colonel
912
Rep
1,850
Posts

Drives: 135i N55 DCT
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@TopGearSolutions View Post
How do I know it? This is not my first rodeo.
So what you're saying, is in the past you've actually flow tested a manifold to see the distribution? If not, you're still guessing. Just because you got away with it does not mean the water / meth is flowing thru all runners equally. There is good reason to think the manifold doesn't flow equally, so the burden of proof is on the person who says it's perfectly safe to shoot a ton of water / meth into the upstream intake charge.
Appreciate 0
      08-03-2018, 03:23 PM   #11
Jeff@TopGearSolutions
Jeff@TopGearSolutions's Avatar
United_States
3441
Rep
79,212
Posts

Drives: C6 Z06, 09 335i, 10 335xi
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: www.TopGearSolutions.com

iTrader: (37)

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wind Breezes View Post
So what you're saying, is in the past you've actually flow tested a manifold to see the distribution? If not, you're still guessing. Just because you got away with it does not mean the water / meth is flowing thru all runners equally. There is good reason to think the manifold doesn't flow equally, so the burden of proof is on the person who says it's perfectly safe to shoot a ton of water / meth into the upstream intake charge.
Sounds like you made a whole lot of assumptions.
Appreciate 1
dcafs17.50
      08-03-2018, 04:00 PM   #12
The Wind Breezes
Lieutenant Colonel
912
Rep
1,850
Posts

Drives: 135i N55 DCT
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@TopGearSolutions View Post
Sounds like you made a whole lot of assumptions.
So you did, or did not flow test the manifold to see the amount of meth flow on each runner?
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:31 PM.




1addicts
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST