130 lbs

[energie]

130 lbs. That is the difference between the published weights of the 335i coupe and the upcoming 135i coupe. Given this weight difference, and assuming that the engines are tuned the same and that the power is delivered similarly etc., does anyone out there know of a "formula" that will reliably predict the 135i's acceleration advantage? Btw, I didn't think the 135 would be so close in weight to the 335!

[sectos]

135 weight / 335 weight * 335 performance should get you pretty close

[daddys///m]

With a published curb weight of 3196 (not sure how accurate this is, but check the link http://www.businessweek.com/autos/co...164_page_2.htm)
and assuming a 4.8 0-60 from the 335i I got a 0-60 time of 4.3s. That is also using a curb weight of 3571 for the 335i. To be honest I'm not sure how accurate this formula is because based on the 1/4 mile time of 13.3s for the 335i I'm getting 11.9s for the 135i. How sick would that be?

[Robert]

Originally Posted by en3rgie

130 lbs. That is the difference between the published weights of the 335i coupe and the upcoming 135i coupe. Given this weight difference, and assuming that the engines are tuned the same and that the power is delivered similarly etc., does anyone out there know of a "formula" that will reliably predict the 135i's acceleration advantage? Btw, I didn't think the 130 would be so close in weight to the 335!

Can you show me the source of the figure? The only comparable figures I have seen are from UK's webpage.

335i ~ 1600kg
135i ~ 1560kg.

[imported_NoelSmart]

The weight difference is negligible. Expect the 0-60 and 1/4 mile time to be nearly the same. The slight weight advantage the 135i has will be offset by the de-tune to the engine. There is no official information that there will be a de-tune, but we have seen undercarriage pictures which seem to show a more restrictive exhaust. However, caring about how quick the car is in a straight line compared to its big brother is missing the point. The 135i is a tighter package. With better brakes, smaller dimensions, slightly less weight, and a marketing comparison to the original 2002, expect the 135i to FEEL faster. If that electronic differential works out it WILL be faster at least in the corners. It will be about the driving FEEL. The 3 series has become a touring model, expect the 1 to have a responsiveness we haven't seen in a few generations aside from the M's. I've owned a few front-engine RWD cars and I'll tell you that my Miata felt faster than my E36 328is. That says something considering the Miata was actually a full second slower to 60. The 1 will be about the drive, not about the numbers. The only number you need to care about is the price, and you'll probably even stop worrying about that once you get behind the wheel.

[Robert]

That is good news if the sole hinderance to the engine's full potential is the exhaust. I wonder how accurate is BW's figure on the weight of the car. While the weight difference should be negligible in acceleration, I am sure it will make a difference in terms of driving experience. I can always feel the weight of an additional passenger.

[AW09M3]

I think you'll be able to feel a very slight difference in acceleration. I can always tell when I bring one or more passengers that my car is "lugging" more weight around. As for 0-60 and 1/4 times, negligible. MAYBE 1/10th of a second.

[ichiban]

from what i know, an estimate of weight to 1/4 time is every 100 lbs off a vehicle will shave the vehicle's time by .1 seconds in the 1/4. Oh, and the miata is a car that makes u feel fast because it's so low to the ground, and there's not much sound deadening. Therefore it feels a lot faster than the 328.

[sectos]

Originally Posted by NoelSmart

The weight difference is negligible. Expect the 0-60 and 1/4 mile time to be nearly the same. The slight weight advantage the 135i has will be offset by the de-tune to the engine. There is no official information that there will be a de-tune, but we have seen undercarriage pictures which seem to show a more restrictive exhaust. However, caring about how quick the car is in a straight line compared to its big brother is missing the point. The 135i is a tighter package. With better brakes, smaller dimensions, slightly less weight, and a marketing comparison to the original 2002, expect the 135i to FEEL faster. If that electronic differential works out it WILL be faster at least in the corners. It will be about the driving FEEL. The 3 series has become a touring model, expect the 1 to have a responsiveness we haven't seen in a few generations aside from the M's. I've owned a few front-engine RWD cars and I'll tell you that my Miata felt faster than my E36 328is. That says something considering the Miata was actually a full second slower to 60. The 1 will be about the drive, not about the numbers. The only number you need to care about is the price, and you'll probably even stop worrying about that once you get behind the wheel.

nicely put

[energie]

Originally Posted by robert

Can you show me the source of the figure? The only comparable figures I have seen are from UK's webpage.

335i ~ 1600kg
135i ~ 1560kg.

Yes, I looked up the 335i coupe weight on BMWUSA.com - - 3,571 lbs unladen weight.
And I got the 135i unladen weight from the "Technical Spec Sheet" that is posted in the sticky thread above - - 1,560 kg * 2.2046 lbs/kg = 3,439 lbs unladen weight.

So, unless I am making a mistake somewhere, the difference is 3,571 - 3,439 = 132 lbs.

[energie]

Originally Posted by NoelSmart

The weight difference is negligible. Expect the 0-60 and 1/4 mile time to be nearly the same. The slight weight advantage the 135i has will be offset by the de-tune to the engine. There is no official information that there will be a de-tune, but we have seen undercarriage pictures which seem to show a more restrictive exhaust. However, caring about how quick the car is in a straight line compared to its big brother is missing the point. The 135i is a tighter package. With better brakes, smaller dimensions, slightly less weight, and a marketing comparison to the original 2002, expect the 135i to FEEL faster. If that electronic differential works out it WILL be faster at least in the corners. It will be about the driving FEEL. The 3 series has become a touring model, expect the 1 to have a responsiveness we haven't seen in a few generations aside from the M's. I've owned a few front-engine RWD cars and I'll tell you that my Miata felt faster than my E36 328is. That says something considering the Miata was actually a full second slower to 60. The 1 will be about the drive, not about the numbers. The only number you need to care about is the price, and you'll probably even stop worrying about that once you get behind the wheel.

Thanks NoelSmart. The virtues of the 1 series that you talk about were lacking in my previous cars, and are the reasons why I sold them ('97 528i and '06 330i). The price didn't seem justified for what I was looking for in a car (the new 330i is a great car in many ways, but quite heavy in feel, and it disappointed me in terms of fun factor). Until I find something that excites me (the 1 and Mini are prospects), I'm good with my '07 Civic, which is a "neat" car, with very good ergonomics, a fairly quick steering ratio (<14), light weight (<2,700 lbs), economy, pep, and lots of good engineering and thought that went into the car. I drove a 116i in Germany about 3-4 years ago. With the right drivetrain, suspension and livelier steering (yes I'm a fan of AS), this car has serious potential. Also, I would hope that it won't be too difficult to "retune" the 135i while keeping with warranty (ie Dinan).

[BMWeber]

Originally Posted by NoelSmart

The weight difference is negligible. Expect the 0-60 and 1/4 mile time to be nearly the same. The slight weight advantage the 135i has will be offset by the de-tune to the engine. There is no official information that there will be a de-tune, but we have seen undercarriage pictures which seem to show a more restrictive exhaust.

That exhaust looked to be at least 3" diameter witch is not restrictive by any means. I had a 2000 camaro witch has a single 3" pipe with duel outlets and it put out 312 RWHP total stock and most aftermarket exhausts were not any bigger they just have freer flow mufflers. and Chevy does not put as much engineering into there exhausts as BMW. so I wouldn't doubt the engine being a little tuned down but I bet it could make just as much power with that exhaust. it all depend on the restriction of the muffler

[grant]

Originally Posted by NoelSmart

If that electronic differential works out it WILL be faster at least in the corners.

I hope you're not pinning your hopes on that system to make the car fast or fun to drive. It is one of the weakest parts of the car for sure. I intend to install a real LSD right away...

Take a look at this link which shows the improvement brought from adding a real LSD to the Porsche Cayman S which also comes stock with only an E-LSD and has more inherent traction than the 135i, due to its mid-engine (135i should benefit even more from a real LSD):

http://www.caymanclub.net/cayman-cha...ck-report.html

[BMWeber]

Originally Posted by grant

I hope you're not pinning your hopes on that system to make the car fast or fun to drive. It is one of the weakest parts of the car for sure. I intend to install a real LSD right away...

Take a look at this link which shows the improvement brought from adding a real LSD to the Porsche Cayman S which also comes stock with only an E-LSD and has more inherent traction than the 135i, due to its mid-engine (135i should benefit even more from a real LSD):

http://www.caymanclub.net/cayman-cha...ck-report.html

+1

I'll be putting a real LSD in mine as soon as I can or as soon as it's available

[joelk]

Originally Posted by BMWeber

That exhaust looked to be at least 3" diameter witch is not restrictive by any means.

exactly.

people making crap up about "de-tuned" engine with zero evidence ...

[larryn]

Originally Posted by grant

I hope you're not pinning your hopes on that system to make the car fast or fun to drive. It is one of the weakest parts of the car for sure. I intend to install a real LSD right away...

Take a look at this link which shows the improvement brought from adding a real LSD to the Porsche Cayman S which also comes stock with only an E-LSD and has more inherent traction than the 135i, due to its mid-engine (135i should benefit even more from a real LSD):

http://www.caymanclub.net/cayman-cha...ck-report.html

LOL. Grant, do you search new threads for the term 'LSD'? Every time it's mentioned, you're there like clockwork... Nothing wrong with that, but I thought it was funny.

With NOBODY having experience with this exact diff, I'm waiting before committing $$'s. I'm hoping to be pleasantly surprised. might not happen, but who knows?

[bimmerfile]

Originally Posted by en3rgie

130 lbs. That is the difference between the published weights of the 335i coupe and the upcoming 135i coupe. Given this weight difference, and assuming that the engines are tuned the same and that the power is delivered similarly etc., does anyone out there know of a "formula" that will reliably predict the 135i's acceleration advantage? Btw, I didn't think the 135 would be so close in weight to the 335!

The 135i may be a smaller package, but that doesn't necessarily translate into a proportional weight reduction.
The big diff is that the weight on the 135i is lean muscle whereas on the 335i there is a little more fat ..

[ducati]

larryn--the reason he's bitching is because there's never been a good "e-lsd." They all suck.

135 will have more narrow tires than the 335, so traction will be a hindrance to 0-60. I suspect it will clock at the same as the 335. 1/4 it should be a tenth or two quicker.