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      07-26-2013, 07:16 AM   #23
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One common mistake, for a new track driver, whether it be stocks pads or not is that sometimes people like to brake light, over a long period of time.

Regardless of pads (for the most part) you're going to overheat the pads. Be as late as possible on the brakes and the amount of heat build-up will reduce greatly.


For me, being my local track is Mid-O. I don't trust stock pads down the back straight. I was hitting 135 on a cold day, and can easily get to 140-145. Getting on the brakes at the 500 board and trying to trust stock pads...it can't happen for me.

YMMV
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      07-26-2013, 09:33 PM   #24
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Road America corner 1, 5, and 12 all have an entry speed of 120 to 135 depending on traffic and of course entry onto the leading straight. No brake issues with stock pads any time during 9 30 minute runs with an average temp of 85 degrees and sunny. ATE Blue, F30 backing plates, and stock pads. Also had 3 hours at Grattan and 5000 street miles on the same pads. Still have 50% pad left. I'm impressed with the wear on the stock pads. Not as powerful as track pads but they will hold up. So back to the original post and recommendation. No mods other than maybe some ate blue or rbf 600 fluid. Learn the car, learn the track, and have fun. Road Atlanta is a top tier track and great fun especially with all the blind corners. Enjoy.
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      07-27-2013, 04:00 PM   #25
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Thanks for all the advice everyone!

Unfortunately about three days after I posted this I hydroplaned my car off the freeway 4 hours from home and the likelyhood of me getting the car back before september 6th feels too slim for me to register for the track day.

I'm thinking I'll try to do some autocross later this fall to try and get a feel for the car in a different environment ad then push it early next year at the next CCA day.
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      07-30-2013, 10:41 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Sixle
Thanks for all the advice everyone!

Unfortunately about three days after I posted this I hydroplaned my car off the freeway 4 hours from home and the likelyhood of me getting the car back before september 6th feels too slim for me to register for the track day.

I'm thinking I'll try to do some autocross later this fall to try and get a feel for the car in a different environment ad then push it early next year at the next CCA day.
Omg.
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      07-30-2013, 06:24 PM   #27
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Omg.
Sucks ass. It's mostly cosmetic, but it really blew a hole in my plans.
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      08-16-2013, 07:32 AM   #28
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I don't think it hurts to flush the brake fluid. Different pads? Eh. Novices on their first time out should be focused on learning the proper line, slowly working their way up, traffic, flaggers, and so forth. Speed should come second. I always tell students that I want them to focus on these items first and get them really down. Forget how fast you or anyone else is going. If you do this, speed will just come.

Typically the first session they do this, hurts their ego a little to have cars passing (but sloppy lines). By the third session, those other drivers are still driving sloppy lines, being more aggressive, not going faster while the driver who focused on proper lines and techniques is blowing by the other driver.

The point is to take the time to learn the right methods, and speed will come to you naturally. With your brakes and equipment, be smooth.

I started with a 110 HP Honda Prelude. It wasn't long before I was passing a lot of cars with much more HP and better suspensions. As others have said, focus on the driver.

New to the site and the 135i is my current top choice to replace my recently sold S2000 due to kids in the family. Need to reply to validate my account and thought this section would be a natural fit. Sixle, over the past several years I've compiled a lot of information that should help people like yourself with autocross, HPDE and Club Racing. It's a totally free online resource and think it'll answer a lot of your questions, so don't feel too bad plugging it: www.GoAheadTakeTheWheel.com .

Good luck and have fun out there!! Dave
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      08-16-2013, 07:35 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by granracing View Post

Good luck and have fun out there!! Dave
Hey Dave! Welcome to the 1er boards. People still fighting over hyphens on the "other" board?
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      08-16-2013, 09:35 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by granracing View Post
I don't think it hurts to flush the brake fluid. Different pads? Eh. Novices on their first time out should be focused on learning the proper line, slowly working their way up, traffic, flaggers, and so forth. Speed should come second. I always tell students that I want them to focus on these items first and get them really down. Forget how fast you or anyone else is going. If you do this, speed will just come.

Typically the first session they do this, hurts their ego a little to have cars passing (but sloppy lines). By the third session, those other drivers are still driving sloppy lines, being more aggressive, not going faster while the driver who focused on proper lines and techniques is blowing by the other driver.

The point is to take the time to learn the right methods, and speed will come to you naturally. With your brakes and equipment, be smooth.

I started with a 110 HP Honda Prelude. It wasn't long before I was passing a lot of cars with much more HP and better suspensions. As others have said, focus on the driver.

New to the site and the 135i is my current top choice to replace my recently sold S2000 due to kids in the family. Need to reply to validate my account and thought this section would be a natural fit. Sixle, over the past several years I've compiled a lot of information that should help people like yourself with autocross, HPDE and Club Racing. It's a totally free online resource and think it'll answer a lot of your questions, so don't feel too bad plugging it: www.GoAheadTakeTheWheel.com .

Good luck and have fun out there!! Dave
Welcome to our forum. Very good advice for novice drivers
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      08-16-2013, 10:04 AM   #31
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Referring to H-T? I don't go there too often anymore. Appreciate the welcomes!

I've somehow already figured out what mods I'd like to start with and have yet to drive an 135i for myself. LOL (I sat in the right seat of a stock '09 at Lime Rock Park and always liked them before.)
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      08-16-2013, 01:49 PM   #32
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granracing, if you have questions about how to properly mod 135i, some of us that have experience tracking this car will be glad to help.
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      08-16-2013, 01:51 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by granracing View Post
Referring to H-T? I don't go there too often anymore. Appreciate the welcomes!

I've somehow already figured out what mods I'd like to start with and have yet to drive an 135i for myself. LOL (I sat in the right seat of a stock '09 at Lime Rock Park and always liked them before.)
No, was referring to RRAX.
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      01-20-2014, 08:20 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kgolf31 View Post
One common mistake, for a new track driver, whether it be stocks pads or not is that sometimes people like to brake light, over a long period of time.

Regardless of pads (for the most part) you're going to overheat the pads. Be as late as possible on the brakes and the amount of heat build-up will reduce greatly.


YMMV
Sorry but I disagree with this theory for a novice and would never tell this to my student. If they're just learning, braking as late as possible could be way too late. Braking early > braking late. Plus if there IS brake fade, you could be in a world of trouble if you're waiting until the last minute. For an advanced driver trying to lay down the fastest time, with the proper brake setup... hard and deep is the way to go.
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      03-25-2014, 06:57 PM   #35
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Good thread. Doing an Auto X this year and maybe a couple HPDE events at Road America and Autobahn.
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      04-17-2014, 03:12 PM   #36
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I have a question. What if your car is heavily tuned for straighline power? Should I run a stock tune or something much less powerful. Key to note; that will not be how my car gets driven on the street. Also, will be running my DD Pss'.
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      04-17-2014, 04:47 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
I have a question. What if your car is heavily tuned for straighline power? Should I run a stock tune or something much less powerful. Key to note; that will not be how my car gets driven on the street. Also, will be running my DD Pss'.
Manual, Automatic, or DCT transmission?
How hot is the weather where you track your car?

If I were you, I would run with stock map first. You will run your engine cooler too. It is more critical to master the proper line, and proper braking technique. As mentioned in this thread several times, first mod is to get better brake fluid to reliably stop your car. Easy to boil stock brake fluid, and get s soft pedal, and lose your stopping power all of a sudden. Boiling your brake fluid is easy to do if it is not fresh (has absorbed some water). Get two bottles of ATE or Motul RBF-600 fluid, pressure bleeder, and bleed your brakes (easy DIY).

As you get experienced, the rest will come naturally: better brake pads, cooling of your rotors/pads, CDV delete, front negative camber adjustments (camber plates, M3 control arms), better tires, Limited Slip Differential, . Then you can start having fun and apply your software tune ...

Just my 2 cents ...
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      04-17-2014, 05:37 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
I have a question. What if your car is heavily tuned for straighline power? Should I run a stock tune or something much less powerful. Key to note; that will not be how my car gets driven on the street. Also, will be running my DD Pss'.
Run stock, I see no benefit for running a tune. There's no trophy, contingency or prize money. Learning and having a good time are the things to focus on. A tune is just one extra thing you have to worry about going wrong.
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      04-17-2014, 05:56 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kgolf31 View Post
One common mistake, for a new track driver, whether it be stocks pads or not is that sometimes people like to brake light, over a long period of time.

Regardless of pads (for the most part) you're going to overheat the pads. Be as late as possible on the brakes and the amount of heat build-up will reduce greatly.


For me, being my local track is Mid-O. I don't trust stock pads down the back straight. I was hitting 135 on a cold day, and can easily get to 140-145. Getting on the brakes at the 500 board and trying to trust stock pads...it can't happen for me.

YMMV
Thanks for the heads up on stock brake pads. Do you have a recommendation for aftermarket pads?
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      04-17-2014, 06:03 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
I have a question. What if your car is heavily tuned for straighline power? Should I run a stock tune or something much less powerful. Key to note; that will not be how my car gets driven on the street. Also, will be running my DD Pss'.
Stock tune, leave your ego at the gate and run the car with the sunny side up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickMsport View Post
Thanks for the heads up on stock brake pads. Do you have a recommendation for aftermarket pads?
I ran HP+ Pads the first couple times on the track with the Z4M and they were relatively good until I got more aggressive and started to get fade. I ran PFC 06s on the Z4M afterwards and don't know what I'll do for the 128.

Going to a straight up track pad is not good though for beginners, you can easily overload the tires. An intermediate (autox/street/track) pad like a HP+ or similar might be up your alley.
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      04-17-2014, 09:11 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcaron9999 View Post
Manual, Automatic, or DCT transmission?
How hot is the weather where you track your car?

If I were you, I would run with stock map first. You will run your engine cooler too. It is more critical to master the proper line, and proper braking technique. As mentioned in this thread several times, first mod is to get better brake fluid to reliably stop your car. Easy to boil stock brake fluid, and get s soft pedal, and lose your stopping power all of a sudden. Boiling your brake fluid is easy to do if it is not fresh (has absorbed some water). Get two bottles of ATE or Motul RBF-600 fluid, pressure bleeder, and bleed your brakes (easy DIY).

As you get experienced, the rest will come naturally: better brake pads, cooling of your rotors/pads, CDV delete, front negative camber adjustments (camber plates, M3 control arms), better tires, Limited Slip Differential, . Then you can start having fun and apply your software tune ...

Just my 2 cents ...
Auto will be running in DC during June so about 80s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3002 tii View Post
Run stock, I see no benefit for running a tune. There's no trophy, contingency or prize money. Learning and having a good time are the things to focus on. A tune is just one extra thing you have to worry about going wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kgolf31 View Post
Stock tune, leave your ego at the gate and run the car with the sunny side up.



I ran HP+ Pads the first couple times on the track with the Z4M and they were relatively good until I got more aggressive and started to get fade. I ran PFC 06s on the Z4M afterwards and don't know what I'll do for the 128.

Going to a straight up track pad is not good though for beginners, you can easily overload the tires. An intermediate (autox/street/track) pad like a HP+ or similar might be up your alley.

There enlies the problem that I believe that many missed. I certainly understand the reasoning and value in learning in the stock much less powerful car. The problem is that my vehicle will never be driven at those power levels on the street. My car makes 100 whp/80wtq over stock just on the pump gas tune. How will what I learn on the strack in a stock car with a completely different power/torque curve properly translate to my souped up mode on the street. I find the learning translation and application a little hard to believe.
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      04-18-2014, 05:40 AM   #42
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This thread has raised some interesting issues, and even after several years of club sprints (circuit racing) I am still very much in a learning phase. Apologies if I am making unsubstantiated assumptions or jumping to conclusions in the following text.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
I have a question. What if your car is heavily tuned for straighline power? Should I run a stock tune or something much less powerful. Key to note; that will not be how my car gets driven on the street. Also, will be running my DD Pss'.
Driving on circuit requires a different skillset to driving on public roads, and at more advanced levels encompasses technical competency, mental and physical fitness.

It is apparent that many 1ers on this forum have tuned engines, cosmetic enhancement, and perhaps even performance upgrades. It is also apparent that many 1ers on this forum also have limited or no track experience. Problems can arise when these two subpopulations overlap. My impression is that as the performance capabilities of a vehicle exceed a driver's skill level, there is increasing potential for adverse incidents.

The E82 lineup already has a high performance ceiling - note how many have crashed their vehicles (on public roads and in racing), aside from suffering personal injury.

(I developed confidence on the 125i, but have been racing the 1M for over two years.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
There enlies the problem that I believe that many missed. I certainly understand the reasoning and value in learning in the stock much less powerful car. The problem is that my vehicle will never be driven at those power levels on the street. My car makes 100 whp/80wtq over stock just on the pump gas tune. How will what I learn on the strack in a stock car with a completely different power/torque curve properly translate to my souped up mode on the street. I find the learning translation and application a little hard to believe.
Regarding the E82 on circuit, probably the greatest risk is in oversteer scenarios given the short-wheelbase and high torque of N54/N55 engines. As mentioned by others, horsepower is (more than) sufficient. In fact, horsepower is one of the least relevant factors to performance on circuit - driving technique, handling/stability, and traction limits are paramount.

(Unfortunately, there are few competitive racers who will disclose this on such a public forum.)

Ultimately it is your decision, and you may feel more comfortable driving whatever and however your vehicle is set up for public roads. Ultimately, the driver is accountable for this decision and any sequelae.

Whatever you decide, I hope you (and the OP) enjoy your time on circuit ... a controlled environment where we can truly appreciate these monsters
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      04-18-2014, 08:25 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timbo_3101
This thread has raised some interesting issues, and even after several years of club sprints (circuit racing) I am still very much in a learning phase. Apologies if I am making unsubstantiated assumptions or jumping to conclusions in the following text.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
I have a question. What if your car is heavily tuned for straighline power? Should I run a stock tune or something much less powerful. Key to note; that will not be how my car gets driven on the street. Also, will be running my DD Pss'.
Driving on circuit requires a different skillset to driving on public roads, and at more advanced levels encompasses technical competency, mental and physical fitness.

It is apparent that many 1ers on this forum have tuned engines, cosmetic enhancement, and perhaps even performance upgrades. It is also apparent that many 1ers on this forum also have limited or no track experience. Problems can arise when these two subpopulations overlap. My impression is that as the performance capabilities of a vehicle exceed a driver's skill level, there is increasing potential for adverse incidents.

The E82 lineup already has a high performance ceiling - note how many have crashed their vehicles (on public roads and in racing), aside from suffering personal injury.

(I developed confidence on the 125i, but have been racing the 1M for over two years.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
There enlies the problem that I believe that many missed. I certainly understand the reasoning and value in learning in the stock much less powerful car. The problem is that my vehicle will never be driven at those power levels on the street. My car makes 100 whp/80wtq over stock just on the pump gas tune. How will what I learn on the strack in a stock car with a completely different power/torque curve properly translate to my souped up mode on the street. I find the learning translation and application a little hard to believe.
Regarding the E82 on circuit, probably the greatest risk is in oversteer scenarios given the short-wheelbase and high torque of N54/N55 engines. As mentioned by others, horsepower is (more than) sufficient. In fact, horsepower is one of the least relevant factors to performance on circuit - driving technique, handling/stability, and traction limits are paramount.

(Unfortunately, there are few competitive racers who will disclose this on such a public forum.)

Ultimately it is your decision, and you may feel more comfortable driving whatever and however your vehicle is set up for public roads. Ultimately, the driver is accountable for this decision and any sequelae.

Whatever you decide, I hope you (and the OP) enjoy your time on circuit ... a controlled environment where we can truly appreciate these monsters
Those are all very good comments!
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      04-18-2014, 11:29 AM   #44
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I'm failing to see the issue your non-stock tune presents. Leave DSC on, and drive within your limits. The car won't let you put down more power than it can handle if you leave traction control on.

If there are issues with your tune when pushed to track level performance, your car will let you know (limp mode, etc...)
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