[ck3]

Well said, jmatero! I don't see why there has to so much infighting. All BMWs are great cars for the people that go after them.

If I can summarize, for bad weather (and in some cases mountain) driving, the options from most desirable to less desirable are:
(1) AWD with snow tires
(2) RWD with snow tires
(3) AWD with all-seasons
(4) RWD with all-seasons

I know with AWD you have a fractional-inch height increase and the equivalent of adding an average male in weight. But I'll readily trade these conditions for an AWD. Actually, I find that the slight increase in height helps me avoid scraping the bottom of my front bumper (yes, I am a careful driver).

Drive and let drive!

[bavarian19]

Originally Posted by ck3

Well said. I don't see why there has to so much infighting. All BMWs are great cars for the people that go after them.

If I can summarize, for bad weather (and in some cases mountain) driving, the options from most desirable to less desirable are:
(1) AWD with snow tires
(2) RWD with snow tires
(3) AWD with all-seasons
(4) RWD with all-seasons

I know with AWD you have a fractional-inch height increase and the equivalent of adding an average male in weight. But I'll readily trade these conditions for an AWD. Actually, I find that the slight increase in height helps me avoid scraping the bottom of my front bumper (yes, I am a careful driver).

Drive and let drive!

You got it!!! To each their own!!


Some like it, some dont... Oh well... life goes on

[snapper]

Originally Posted by parafrog

great point! if had to have gone up any significant slope, the story would have been different. the road was closed to ALL vehicles going up the mountain. as long as it's not super iced over, a gradual slope can be tackled. when it's hard packed with ice, much more difficult.

Well that's kinda sad to hear.... most of your snow drive was *downhill*? Not going to be much difference between RWD and AWD then. jmatero is right about the hill issue, RWD w/snow tires should be fine *unless* you must tackle steep *up* hills with little or no momentum:

http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=2

And I do . Yup... I'm contemplating i and xi, but I really, really hate not being able to get a sport package on the xi.... enough to drive me back to Audi...

[JSpira]

Many people I know in the automotive industry refer to all season tires as 3-season tires.

Just something to keep in mind.

[BKsBimmer]

Originally Posted by bavarian19

Remember, due to the x-drive system, the entire suspension is different in BMW AWD cars, not just the drivetrain. X-drive equipped cars have far less suspension travel, and sit much higher than sport equipped RWD's. There is a significant difference in performance between the two. It still handles much better than most other cars... but its not for me

Opinions are just like a** holes … everybody’s got one! Just reading some of the comments on this post to confirms that.

I’ve driven both cars … RWD and AWD. There is NOT a significant difference in handling on dry pavement. Quoting BMW’s own literature “On smooth, dry roads, the 325xi and 330xi have the feel of their rear-wheel drive stablemates.” BMW’s words, not mine. And come on now … let’s get real about the difference in ride height. You would think by some of the comments that AWD E90’s were mounted on stilts! I absolutely defy anyone to tell the difference between an AWD E90 and a RWD E90 from any angle at more than 15 feet away. And to whoever made the ridiculous comment that all Bimmers are meant to be RWD then please explain to me why BMW is using a 330xi at the Detroit auto show to show case the M-Sport / M-tech front lip and rear spoiler???? Check out these pics.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...575&referrerid

[StewtheBassman]

Originally Posted by ck3

I know with AWD you have a fractional-inch height increase and the equivalent of adding an average male in weight.

Or a slightly large female, or a bigass dog...either way, it's company on a long trip...never thought of it that way!

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...8&page=6&pp=22

The link is for pics from our Montreal Meet in November... One of the cars is a 330i with Sport, and one of them is a 325xi. An enthusiast can tell the difference by ride height (badge aside), but the average person who looks at the car doesn't know, doesn't care, and probably doesn't give a crap that any of us have BMWs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ZenDriver]

RWD - much better handling and performance in dry conditions, and decent in snow/ice if properly equipped and manned.

AWD - much better traction in snow and icy conditions, but you do lose some dry weather performance.

I double dog dare you to tell me the difference between AWD and RWD on a public road, wet or dry. If you are drivng these vehicles at the 10/10 or 9/10 levels required for the AWD v. RWD differences to come into play, you are a spectacular kind of moron.

The levels of performance attained by even the base model Audis and BMWs is such that driving them anywhere near their limits is an exercise in stupidity. I won't even drive my street car near it's limits on a racetrack (or to quote my buddy Jim Conforti: "Driving a street car at 8/10 performance on a racetrack is like playing Russian Roulette with an automatic pistol."

[jmatero]

I think the issue with BMW not providing a sport-package (well, one with a lowered sport suspension like non-xi models) is 2-fold:

1. BMW's "Claim to fame" is RWD... more specifically RWD handling. It is what they use in every ounce of advertising to say their car is superior to any other.. the balance and RWD. If they came out with a lowered sporty x-drive model, it would totally go against everything they've said to convince the world their cars are better than, say, an Audi. Audi on the other hand has staked their very LIVES on AWD. 90% of what they SELL is AWD and they push it as a dry handling advantage as well. BMW sells x-drive as the option for those who want BMW's famous handling traits but live in areas of the world with frequent wet/icy weather. BMW would actually LOSE it's identity if they marketed a true sport package for the x-drive models because an AWD BMW with lowered suspension and 40-series tires would have no advantage in poor weather (according to the BMW play book).

2. I'm no engineer, but Audis use a longitudinal engine tranny setup with the engine ahead of the front wheels... which allows equal-length drive shafts to shoot out to each front wheel.... the chassis is designed for this. The 3-series, however, uses the same longitudinal setup...however, the front wheels are pushed so close to the front bumper that a transfer case is attached to the rear of the tranny.... with an opening that sends ANOTHER shaft running along the driver's side of the car all the way to the front end where it is split again into two unequal drive shafts powering the front wheels. It may be physically impossible to lower the car very much because of the additional shaft that runs from the transfer case to the front end... but again, I'm speculating. Also, if I'm not mistaken, the lower control arms on the front end of x-drive cars is a different design than the 325i/330i's: steel vs. aluminum..... another factor?

I just don't see BMW ever offering a TRUE sport package for the x-drive 3-series models....... or at least... promoting/marketing it. Perhaps some brave soul out there is willing to drop the suspension on their 325xi/330xi and go with 17 or 18inch wheels and rubber bands? It would be interesting to see!

[JSpira]

Originally Posted by jmatero

2. I'm no engineer, but Audis use a longitudinal engine tranny setup with the engine ahead of the front wheels... which allows equal-length drive shafts to shoot out to each front wheel.... the chassis is designed for this. The 3-series, however, uses the same engine/tranny setup...however, the front wheels are pushed so close to the front bumper, that a transfer case is attached to the rear of the tranny.... with an opening that sends ANOTHER shaft running along the driver's side of the car all the way back to the front end where it is split again into two unequal drive shafts to the front wheels. It may be physically impossible to lower the car very much because of the shaft that runs from the transfer case to the front end... but again, I'm speculating. Also, if I'm not mistaken, the lower control arms on the front end of the x-drive cars is a different design and is also steel vs. the 325i/330i's aluminum..... another factor?

Your analysis of the underside of the car is correct as far as I've been told by BMW engineers. Audi starts off with front wheel drive and it is much easier to add AWD as a result. BMW, well you explained it very eloquently.

My take on all this is also what I practice: I have Styling 162 wheels with staggered performance tires on the car. I jus received 17" runflat Blizzaks and as soon as the 17" bmw wheels arrive, I'll put those on for the duration of winter.

The summer tires start to experience decreased performance once the temperature hits 13°C. This is quite evident as they just feel funny until they warm up on cold days.

So I expect to find out about winter tires very soon but I always remember one thing several (knowledgeable) folks in the automotive industry have said to me: All Season tires are 3 season tires.

BTW, in terms of handling, I put the 330xi somewhere between the 330i and the 330i with SP. The 330xi drives as if it were on rails. I put 2426 km on it in the first 5 days and I found it to be the best handling BMW I´ve had (see signature for BMWography).

[parafrog]

Originally Posted by ZenDriver

Humm, named Para, N. Italy, driving a diplomatic sales car... You are in the 173?

name carried over from my prior days in the marine corps. my job involved alot of jumping and diving (Draeger LAR-V). now i'm in the AF stationed at aviano. have flown with the 173d though.

[StewtheBassman]

WOW - another awesome drive in today! You know when the heavy snow and slush makes little mounds inbetween each lane, making lane-changing a challenging and normally frightening event?

Today i was able to change lanes with impunity..it's great. I accelerate through as if I'm in a FWD car, and the car just hauls me over those little shitpiles, and I never lose control. In my 325i last year in the RWD I would be very tentative, as the dynamics are much different. Starts are much faster and turns are far more certain with this car.

AWD rocks in this area! We have more days that I need it than not in winter...I am so pleased. Got to work with only a 10 minute penalty on a 1 hour 10 minute drive!

[18LLC]

RWD with snow tire is a good match, but last week, when i go to lake tahoe to ski, there is chain control, all cars with any tires are required chain, without AWD. Do you know the temp. out there? 22 F. I'm feel sorry for those guys who have to put their chain on in this weather. tell you the truth, I laugh at them.

[18LLC]

Originally Posted by bavarian19

Here in VA, I have done more than fine with the small amount of snow and ice we have had so far this winter (I am riding on Performance AS tires). I have been rather dissapointed with our winter being as I plan on going snowboarding a few times this season.

I am glad to hear of a true success story of a properly driven RWD car with snows. Who needs the XI

hope not seeing you at the bottom of the mountain.

[needashower]

I live in Chicago and I am lazy. The XI seems to be the right choice for me and heres why. Even though the all season tires are not optimized for the very coldest of days of winter, the AWD provides some compensating control to get through these days. The other days of winter (2 months) where its 32 degrees with a high probability of snow, the XI is in its sweet spot. For the spring and fall days, we generally get a mix of sleet, rain and sunshine. Once again, I think the XI provides the best drive train for this combination weather. While the XI may not be the optimal drive train for summer driving in Chicago, I think it to be quite enjoyable, and am willing to make the small compromise to own an all season vehicle.

So there you have it, plot your weather calendar and decide which fine BMW product is right for you.

[ed328ci]

The question shouldn't be snow tires verses Xi. Even if you have the very best AWD or 4WD system in the world, it will NOT, repeat, will NOT help you stop in the snow. Snow tires on the other hand, help you stop and maintain control in the snow, regardless of your vehicle's drive configuration.

So, even if you opt for a Xi, please, please, for the sake of other drivers on the road, GET SNOW TIRES AS WELL.

Note: the Xi verses snow tire arguement seems to be a BMW forum thing. In the Audi forums, there is little question that snows tires are recommended for the snow.