Are you disappointed with the 1M now that it's released?

[JB135MDCT]

Originally Posted by MrRoboto

Canadian healthcare is not 'socialized' it is a 'single-payer' system. (public pay, private delivery)...stop learning about the world from FOX news.

You can dress it up any way you like, but the net result is socialized health care.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by MrRoboto

Canadian healthcare is not 'socialized' it is a 'single-payer' system. (public pay, private delivery)...stop learning about the world from FOX news.

Boy I gotta agree here... The sheer DISinformation in America is crippling American minds.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by MDORPHN

Not sure what's considered an SUV vs. a "cross-over" these days, but a Porsche Panamera soundly beat an X6M in this year's One Lap. The X6M was driven by Mike Renner, the chief instructor at the BMW Performance Center in Spartanburg.

Neil

I wouldn't consider a Panamera to be a crossover no... it's a sedan.

[JB135MDCT]

Originally Posted by 1_In_The_Sun

Sorry to hear about your off topic Canadian woes...really...breaks my heart. So sad. Feel better now?

Back on topic:

No matter how much better the M is over the 135i - it's still an M. Those fortunate souls who can afford the dealer mark-ups, will blissfully smile wider every time they see that badge. Knowing they have something that many don't and won't ever have is stoically alluring. Logic and and numbers have little to do with it. Sure you can tune a 135i to beat the M - but that's not the point. an M is an M,

I think "the fortunate" are called badge whores who have never gotten past 3krpm and are typically out run by a Honda Civic.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Sugarphreak

This is a post that scott had put up a while back, I don't think the N54 is the engine of choice.... it is the one that could be thrown into the car in time for the launch date.

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

I see cars in the earlist stage but I have other projects to work on that I cannot afford to be distracted as I have many projects not only for cars but I also conceive stuff for BMWTV.de The German only BMW TV channel which in some cases do not involve cars. With each project now we have started to do Pre-visualisation on the computer because we can show it to the director and production crew and explain this is the angles we want to get the perfect shot.

The time window for this car is extremely tight and originally enthusiasm was not apparent until Dr. Kay Segler came to the M Division.
We had initially toyed with the idea of an 1M when we were conceiving the Coupe and did work with evaluation models then using the engine from the E46 and the upgraded E46 CSL engine but it proved to be too heavy for the car.

Originally in the early days of marketing the standard 135i was originally meant to be an M model.

The 1M that stands before you now has had possibly the most progressive stage from thought-production turnaround for a BMW. There had to be a lot of arm-twisting in the BMW Board because of the tight window between generation 1 and generation 2 of the Coupe. The proposal was greenlighted when BMW decided to use the Coupe model for the BMW eDrive evaluation. Therefore slightly extending it's life cycle.

When I first saw the car it was in a design studio as a full scale claymodel but since then some designers ideas have to make way for aerodynamics and engineering. The initial engine proposal was the N55 but they were having issues that cannot be solved within the time window. BMW Greenlit this car in July 09, now over a year later we see it as it intended , although testing still commences until the launch. Valvetronic was the main cause of the time delay but BMW have spent some time on this and are using the N55 as a basis for the next M3.

The best way to describe the engine of the 1M is a "Hybrid" but in the original form of Hybrid, nothing to do with "alternatives", but it is not a straightforward transplant.

There is a lot of this car that will carry over for the next generation 1M in which that car will switch to four cylinders to which the M Division engineers are already working on the basics without time constraints or restrictions. 1M (E82) is showing what is possible in a small timeframe 1M (F22) will show what is possible once you do not have restrictions.

I have no doubt that the N55 will be the motor of the future, but the impression I was given was that the N54 is actually MORE expensive than the N55 motor, and the preference for using it for tuning and creating the 1M appeared to be clear, when considering the dual turbo vs. single turbo design. To be honest... what I am saying still goes in lock step with Scott's comments. Perhaps the N55 was the intended powerplant, (and possibly cost was a factor initially?.... If you have a newer powerplant that makes the same power, and is more fuel efficient, and is less expensive... then yes... it gets the greenlight right? ) but when it came to tuning the motor for performance for this project, the N54 platform came out the clear winner, hence it's usage in production... Perhaps there were indeed some stumbling blocks or issues that kept the N55 from being the motor of choice ? (I have heard of issues with regards to the Vanos?) I am pretty sure that one of the engineers there was Jurgen Schwenker... and that is whom I asked about the motor differences. As far as the future comments regarding future platforms that Scott has mentioned, those are all also in line with what I was told.

[JB135MDCT]

Originally Posted by grant

In actuality, DCT results in LESS power, not more. Check the top speeds (unlimited) of Porsches with and without the PDK gearbox (same ratios). PDK-equipped cars are always 1 or 2 mph slower, due to the lower efficiency of the dual-clutch gearbox compared to a proper manual.

It's true that a dual-clutch has faster shift times and an uninterrupted flow of power during gear changes, but it's erroneous to consider it in the context of a power boost (quite the opposite) while in gear.

Dry DCTs are about 7% Eff more than MT. A wet DCT is about the same. I think the difference you see is final gear ratio.

[BrokenVert]

Big question for me.

Does the "N54" in the 1M have all forged internals and ITBs?

[BrokenVert]

Originally Posted by MDORPHN

Not sure what's considered an SUV vs. a "cross-over" these days, but a Porsche Panamera soundly beat an X6M in this year's One Lap. The X6M was driven by Mike Renner, the chief instructor at the BMW Performance Center in Spartanburg.

Neil

Do you honestly thing that a Panamera is a Crossover or SUV?

[JB135MDCT]

Originally Posted by MDORPHN

Not sure what's considered an SUV vs. a "cross-over" these days, but a Porsche Panamera soundly beat an X6M in this year's One Lap. The X6M was driven by Mike Renner, the chief instructor at the BMW Performance Center in Spartanburg.

Neil

SUV is based on body-on-frame. The others are unibody. The traditional "SUV" was reinvented by BMW when they designed the X5, which is the first unibody "SUV" or called a SAV or even a crossover. Confusing part is crossovers come in may different forms these days.

[MDORPHN]

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

Do you honestly thing that a Panamera is a Crossover or SUV?

I may have been mistaken, but I wasn't being dishonest (and resent the suggestion).

Just rechecked the One Lap results and the Panamera did run in the luxury sedan class, not the SUV class with the X6M.

I may have been confused since the Panamera is almost as ugly as the X6M.

Neil

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by JB135MDCT

I think "the fortunate" are called badge whores who have never gotten past 3krpm and are typically out run by a Honda Civic.

Now that's just plain old Hater-Ade

[BrokenVert]

Originally Posted by MDORPHN

I may have been confused since the Panamera is almost as ugly as the X6M.

Neil

That we both agree on.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by MDORPHN

I may have been confused since the Panamera is almost as ugly as the X6M.

Neil

Hmmm... they do run neck and neck in that category... but the X6 M wins by an (ugly) nose stuffed with intercoolers.... the only schnoz worse.... is on the Cayenne

[cracka]

This is fairly minor, but I do wish they had given the 1M quad tips the same black chrome finish as the 135i. The modern ///M signature quads with a nod to the original unique finish from the 1 would have been a cool touch.

I'll cope with the chrome, though.

[jeremydgreat]

worst. thread. evar.

[M_Anthony]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

So you've found a better performing SUV on road/track than the X6M ? For what it is... the X6M is a pretty amazing performer.... I agree that in the pantheon of M cars. it would be one of my last selections... however it is indeed far better a performer from a handling, power, and engineering design perspective than the underlying model. Which is what M is all about. Is an M6 (E24 or current?) one's first track weapon of choice? Do you often even SEE one at a track? Is it any less an M car?

Why the hell would I want a track-ready SUV/crossover? I can't stand the entire class. SUVs are for using off-road, or in inclement weather; the X6 fails miserably in that regard. The X6 is a useless, pointless vehicle that never should have been made, the M version is just taking pointlessness to a whole new level. No thanks.

[swamp2]

Actually the more I've thought about the way CarTest works the more I think it does handle the loss of boost system intertia during a shift. In short if the power and torque crurves match what the engine is doing just after a shift then it indeed does.

Originally Posted by grant

In actuality, DCT results in LESS power, not more. Check the top speeds (unlimited) of Porsches with and without the PDK gearbox (same ratios). PDK-equipped cars are always 1 or 2 mph slower, due to the lower efficiency of the dual-clutch gearbox compared to a proper manual.

It's true that a dual-clutch has faster shift times and an uninterrupted flow of power during gear changes, but it's erroneous to consider it in the context of a power boost (quite the opposite) while in gear.

No not true at all. Positively guaranteed.

Benefits that appear to be more or less just like having more power come from radically shorter shifts. Indeed this is not actual power per se and in gear drag race results between a MT and DCT (if they had identical ratios AND losses) would be identical. You can also get a small benefit from more gears or optimized gears if the original MT version had some non optimal gearing. Either way to see this effective power you need to span across mutiple gears. Lastly these effects will be for the inertia dominated acceleration regime when aerodynamic effects are less significant. If a DCT get more gears then its last ratio will likely be smaller which could affect top speed and thus appear to have less power. That would only be of the car was gear/rpm limited though most are not they are drag limited.

Originally Posted by JB135MDCT

Dry DCTs are about 7% Eff more than MT. A wet DCT is about the same. I think the difference you see is final gear ratio.

Correct, but don't get confused by thinking dry gives you 7% overall less parasitic drivetrain loss. The difference between a wet and dry clutch system in terms of overall drivetrain loss is probably about 0.5% or 1-2 hp (for the M3). See this long thread here.

[ANILE8]

Originally Posted by M_Anthony

Not for much longer. As demand for better fuel economy increases while safety mandates get more stringent, you're going to see a bigger & bigger push to FI engines. The days of the big V8 are coming to a close, I'm afraid.

Even good old Holden is reducing their V8 offerings. Sad times, my friend.

But don't worry, new FI engines like the N55 are damn good. Damn good.

Please remind me if you would be so kind as to why BMW had to axe the multi award winning naturally aspirated high revving S54 ,S65 and S85 engines again.


Fuel Economy vs Performance?

• Porsche
• Ferrari
• Audi
• Mercedes-Benz
• Lamborghini
• Aston Martin
• HSV
• Chevrolet
• Dodge
• Holden

The above list of manufacturers are but some who come to mind that currently provide a selection of fantastic high revving naturally aspirated engines to suit all types of performance enthusiasts instead of relying on turbo technology.

BMW is somehow different?

[MartinS]

Is it for sure that it will never come with other options than manual transmission?

[spiderz17]

Originally Posted by MartinS

Is it for sure that it will never come with other options than manual transmission?

At this point, there are no announced plans for any transmission option other than manual.

[MartinS]

Originally Posted by spiderz17

At this point, there are no announced plans for any transmission option other than manual.

[bmwboi]

I'm definitely not too disappointed as we kind of new all along that it was getting a tweaked N54. As I said over on the M3 site, what more do you really want for ~$46k?

The N54 is definitely not as exciting as the S65 or even the S54 but I feel the driving dynamics of this car will by far be best of BMW's current lineup.