Motortrend Hot Lap

alphagamma · 09-02-2011, 12:23 AM

I feel like everyone's being too defensive about a car. Randy Pobst seems to have been writing from the POV of driving a car that allows a driver to drive fast. This entails neutral handling, good linear power delivery, and etc. He's right, having the tail come out easily and not in a linear fashion is not a good attribute for racing (his POV). However, it does make the car fun to drive. I feel like the 1M was designed to be more of a wild fun car. This is like when Richard Hammond was reviewing the Z4 M Roadster.

So many people disliked the car's handling characteristics when trying to drive a clean and fast line, but Hammond noted the car was probably not meant for that purpose. He demonstrated his point by driving it balls to the walls with the tail hanging. The fact the 1M is a quick car is probably just the nature of having high power, high torque, wide wheels, and big brakes in a small car.

Robert · 09-02-2011, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HBspeed

A loudmouth television personality > an extremely successful race car driver?

No wonder the M brand in no longer about motorsport.

With you here, quite disappointed when BMW exited Formula 1 and instead rolling out the i series line up. It's becoming more like Toyota everyday.

bvez3ro · 09-02-2011, 01:28 AM

I would like to hear Adevevo's opinion regarding this article.

HERR FSTIR · 09-02-2011, 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bvez3ro

I would like to hear Adevevo's opinion regarding this article.

Here you go (post #27)...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Advevo

What an idiot.

The turn in is exceptional sharp for a street car. Of course it has understeer every car has it. My 997 GT3 mk2 understeers even more.

Every bmw can be a super sharp car if you mount front and rear tires in the same wide. Bmw does not do it them selfs because lots of inexperienced drivers would have accidents with it if you're not used to it.

The 1M is the best fun car bmw has at this moment. M3 can t compare and the Upcomming M3 can t compare either. Those cars are GT s and no nimble small cars to throw around like a 1M.

Aussie_in_London · 09-02-2011, 04:11 AM

Is there any road review or is it a track bash?

If track only then I am hardly surprised the 'race car' driver disliked the 1M as it's no track slag 'special' like those few tested, it's a performance road sports car first up but has some ability on track, but as we know requires a bit of tweaking for a more track focused approach..........

So the dude hates it as a track car, ah well life goes on, its a stonking car in 'my opinion' for what it is

Advevo · 09-02-2011, 04:21 AM

RANDY POBST'S IMPRESSIONS my response on it.

On handling... "The 1M is an improvement on the 135, which I've spent some time in, but NOT my favorite car. In fact, between you and me, I hate this car. It won't turn. The thing I didn't like about the 135 was its mid-corner understeer, its reluctance to turn once it was in the corner, and the 1M still does that. And it's the primary thing I remember after driving the car. That it is very lazy on turn-in."

I am race car driver too. But i can understand why bmw does certain things. Yes it s much better than a 135i. It won t turn in if you compare it to a race car. You need to compare it to its competition. Go drive an Audi RS3 or Audi TT. If you want more turn it. Just alter geo settings a bit. It s very easy.

On the transmission... "The shifter is slick, and light. I really enjoy that. You gotta do it just with your fingertips. If you try to muscle it with a fist, you're gonna get the wrong gear."

Never had that problem. Even with the 8 min ring time i had no shifting problems whatsoever.

On the seats... "I like the seats a lot, very comfortable and supportive, except...too high. I'm a tall guy; this reminds me a lot of the older Volvos or Range Rovers where they mount the seat really high so you can get a good view. Which is great, but I'm tall, I'm already high. I want to be down in the car. And I couldn't lower the seat enough, and I just felt like I was sitting on the car, not in the car, which I'm not a fan of."

Yes the seats are to high. As a racing driver you want to sit as low as possible. But keep in mind. Not all are race cars drivers you also have less tall people. Bmw need to compromise. But you can easily buy aftermarket raceseats if you wish.

On the steering... "Steering, relatively slow ratio, which I actually like because I think everyone turns in too fast. I've always liked BMW for building that into their cars. I just didn't like what happened with the handling as I turned the wheel, there was just not enough response entering the corner. And braking hard made it worse. A lot worse. I mean, that car would go straight if I was in the brakes very hard at all. So, I found it very disappointing."

Steering ratio is sharper then a normal bmw. Not enough response entering the corner he says. It s a compromise and a sporty one. If you want more response put some semi slicks on and wider front tires. Put some camber on and some toe out and there is you're response. You driving street tires on the track they are getting too hot and loose grip easily. And besides that the car is properly a test car from bmw which has had it s hammering already.

On the engine... "The engine is smooth, the power is reasonably good, but in today's world, that's not a fast car. I'm telling ya, it is not a fast car in today's world. Maybe because I've just spent too much time in 500-horsepower cars."

hahaha that s just utterly .... reasonable good lol. The car is fast real fast. You need very expensive cars to keep up.

Overall... "It's almost like it was built by safety engineers. But only until you get on the power, and then, getting on the power, it's not really good at putting the power down, either. I'm just not impressed with this car. I like the M3 so much that I find the 1M to be very, very disappointing, though the M3 understeers too much, too. I think the lawyers are running the handling department at BMW right now, and they don't have to. Just make it handle like the 1988 M3 did -- that car was perfect. You know, I hate to pick on what is obviously overall is a pretty good car, but in today's world there are not very many cars I hate...I hate this car."

This man is tired and getting old. He lives in the past. He should build a car himself with 500hp and sharp turn in. Lets see how manny lawyers are knocking on his door. Forget this guy very fast.

I am gonna tell you all a secret i bought 2 1M i have a black one which is my daily and i have bought a white one which is gonna be my track day car. I keep you update about the changes i did. Yeah i am crazy i know but i like the car very very very much. You will see new movies on the nurburgring for sure.

marcel b · 09-02-2011, 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Advevo

I am gonna tell you all a secret i bought 2 1M i have a black one which is my daily and i have bought a white one which is gonna be my track day car. I keep you update about the changes i did. Yeah i am crazy i know but i like the car very very very much. You will see new movies on the nurburgringring for sure.

Curious about your experience and changes, especially regarding suspension / geometry.

I am there again in two weeks, would be great to see you there again, this time with you white 1M

Cheers

Aussie_in_London · 09-02-2011, 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Advevo

I am gonna tell you all a secret i bought 2 1M i have a black one which is my daily and i have bought a white one which is gonna be my track day car. I keep you update about the changes i did. Yeah i am crazy i know but i like the car very very very much. You will see new movies on the nurburgring for sure.

Bring it on..............

superchargedman · 09-02-2011, 06:04 AM

The 302 was specifically designed to kill the m3 at the track, so the fact that the laguna did it doesn't surprise or make much difference to me. I bought the 1m for the all around gestalt of the package.

TX78666 · 09-02-2011, 07:48 AM

Wow. I read the reviews and watch the videos, because they are entertaining. I've already picked my car. I don't need anyone to validate that choice. I love my 135. I love my e46. With both, I considered the M models, but they weren't the right fit for me at the time. That being said, as far as these sorts of reviews go, it is safe to say that the 135 falls even lower on his list than the M. I'm not losing any sleep over it.

I just don't get why people get all spun up about someone saying they don't like their car. Are you driving it for you, or for everyone else?

jhall1957 · 09-02-2011, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delrin

Said the guy who is in 11th place!! He couldn't even drive and talk....useless review. I don't mind a negative review, but it should at least have some substance and be credible.

I have a 2012 Boss 302 (non LS, that will make it a better comparo) and a 1M coming soon (ED end of Sept.). I'll ask the guy in 4th place (Mike Skeen) to drive both at a better representive track (VIR) and compare!

Stay tuned.

Franklin Joseph · 09-02-2011, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhall1957

I have a 2012 Boss 302 (non LS, that will make it a better comparo) and a 1M coming soon (ED end of Sept.). I'll ask the guy in 4th place (Mike Skeen) to drive both at a better representive track (VIR) and compare!

Stay tuned.

skeen's the man...this should be good.

Advevo's the man too...first to have 2 1Ms?

Fundahl · 09-02-2011, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TX78666

Wow. I read the reviews and watch the videos, because they are entertaining. I've already picked my car. I don't need anyone to validate that choice. I love my 135. I love my e46. With both, I considered the M models, but they weren't the right fit for me at the time. That being said, as far as these sorts of reviews go, it is safe to say that the 135 falls even lower on his list than the M. I'm not losing any sleep over it.

I just don't get why people get all spun up about someone saying they don't like their car. Are you driving it for you, or for everyone else?

It's the fact that he had such a negative attitude in a widely published magazine. He offered no constructive criticism, just says he Hates the car.... oh and it absolutely DOESN'T turn.... right....

You could say, "The car still exhibits much understeer as the 135i does, perhaps this would be solved with some additional negative camber for the front wheels and a better tire compound."

I would expect a more technical review from such a highly acclaimed race car driver. Nobody likes hearing someone bitch about everything without any useful info.

Maniac992 · 09-02-2011, 09:51 AM

This statement is just complete rubbish and in my opinion he loses all credibility here (I mean its a $53k car for gods sake):

On the engine... "The engine is smooth, the power is reasonably good, but in today's world, that's not a fast car. I'm telling ya, it is not a fast car in today's world. Maybe because I've just spent too much time in 500-horsepower cars."

But whatever, to each his own, I have no problem with criticism. What a race car driver thinks of a 1M in a race environment has little bearing on how I like it as a daily driver with occasional track days.

TX78666 · 09-02-2011, 09:56 AM

I thought he offered some specific reasons for his opinion of the car. There is plenty of information out there, about how to improve the handling/performance of this car, if that is the intent. No real need for a reviewer to speculate about what might improve it.

Again, I'm driving my cars for me. What anyone else thinks of the cars is immaterial. If he had loved the car, would that have somehow made it a better car than it already is? Did his review somehow make it worse? It's like people are reading/watching for validation, and then get offended if they don't get it.

I can see disagreeing with the review, although it is unlikely that any of us have taken all of those other cars to the track, for comparison, so our basis for disagreeing is somewhat suspect. I just can't understand being offended, and it really seems like some people are offended.

Sy546 · 09-02-2011, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maniac992

On the engine... "The engine is smooth, the power is reasonably good, but in today's world, that's not a fast car. I'm telling ya, it is not a fast car in today's world. Maybe because I've just spent too much time in 500-horsepower cars."

This is exactly where i stopped listening to that dumb A$$. Sorry but if you don't think this is fast something is wrong with you. & ive driven some very very fast cars.

GoingTooFast · 09-02-2011, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Advevo

What an idiot.

The turn in is exceptional sharp for a street car. Of course it has understeer every car has it. My 997 GT3 mk2 understeers even more.

C'mon Andre, don't be so harsh on the guy...

It's not his fault not knowing that, unlike the M3, the M-button on the steering wheel is not programmable and that besides getting you a sharper throttle response mapping it does nothing else. He doesn't know that the M Dynamic Mode (aka MDM) cannot be programmed to be activated or the DSC completely deactivate by the same M button. So, he only pressed the M button on the steering wheel and drove the car with the DSC fully ON, hence the awful understeer and low power!

Moo · 09-02-2011, 10:44 AM

Sent to Randy via his website

Quote:

Re: BMW 1M review - community feedback

Hello Randy,

Just saw the video & writeup of your review of BMW 1M in Motor Trend. I thought you'd like to know that there are some very active discussions in the online BMW enthusiast community.

Here's the thread:
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=580192

Here's a specific response from Andre de Vries:
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...4&postcount=50

BTW it's speculated that you did not drive the car in MDM (M Dynamic Mode).

It would be great if you can chime in!

Regards

Fundahl · 09-02-2011, 11:09 AM

I'm pretty sure he would notice if the nanny systems were still on, but you never know. Also my previous statements are based on the text review, I have yet been able to view the video.

It would certainly be interesting if he could provide some feedback directly on this forum.

GoingTooFast · 09-02-2011, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fundahl

I'm pretty sure he would notice if the nanny systems were still on, but you never know.

Are you sure?!

Quote:

"The engine is smooth, the power is reasonably good, but in today's world, that's not a fast car. I'm telling ya, it is not a fast car in today's world. Maybe because I've just spent too much time in 500-horsepower cars."

MonteCarloM3 · 09-02-2011, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fundahl

I'm pretty sure he would notice if the nanny systems were still on, but you never know. Also my previous statements are based on the text review, I have yet been able to view the video.

It would certainly be interesting if he could provide some feedback directly on this forum.

yes, i'm sure he didn't turn off all the dsc etc.

he also probably forgot to brush his teeth and talks to imaginary friends as well.

a guy that gives his honest opinion MUST be crazy.

Fundahl · 09-02-2011, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonteCarloM3

yes, i'm sure he didn't turn off all the dsc etc.

he also probably forgot to brush his teeth and talks to imaginary friends as well.

a guy that gives his honest opinion MUST be crazy.

Im not sure why you quoted me, I said it's not likely that he forgot to turn off the electronic aids. I agree with him that the 1M in stock form is slow, as is the M3.

If there is nothing wrong about him giving honest feedback about the car then there is nothing wrong with me giving honest feedback about his review...

09-02-2011, 12:23 AM	#45
alphagamma Private First Class 26 Rep 100 Posts Drives: 2002 WRX, 2011 1-series M Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: CA iTrader: (0)	I feel like everyone's being too defensive about a car. Randy Pobst seems to have been writing from the POV of driving a car that allows a driver to drive fast. This entails neutral handling, good linear power delivery, and etc. He's right, having the tail come out easily and not in a linear fashion is not a good attribute for racing (his POV). However, it does make the car fun to drive. I feel like the 1M was designed to be more of a wild fun car. This is like when Richard Hammond was reviewing the Z4 M Roadster. So many people disliked the car's handling characteristics when trying to drive a clean and fast line, but Hammond noted the car was probably not meant for that purpose. He demonstrated his point by driving it balls to the walls with the tail hanging. The fact the 1M is a quick car is probably just the nature of having high power, high torque, wide wheels, and big brakes in a small car. Last edited by alphagamma; 09-02-2011 at 12:31 AM..
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09-02-2011, 01:28 AM	#47
bvez3ro Second Lieutenant 10 Rep 235 Posts Drives: F80 YMB Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Outback Munich iTrader: (0)	I would like to hear Adevevo's opinion regarding this article.
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09-02-2011, 04:11 AM	#49
Aussie_in_London Lieutenant Colonel 142 Rep 1,700 Posts Drives: 1M, i3 & track built Astra OPC Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Kent iTrader: (0)	Is there any road review or is it a track bash? If track only then I am hardly surprised the 'race car' driver disliked the 1M as it's no track slag 'special' like those few tested, it's a performance road sports car first up but has some ability on track, but as we know requires a bit of tweaking for a more track focused approach.......... So the dude hates it as a track car, ah well life goes on, its a stonking car in 'my opinion' for what it is
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09-02-2011, 04:21 AM	#50
Advevo Banned 581 Rep 1,170 Posts Drives: M2 Competition, E30 M3 DTM Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Country where the taxes are too high!! iTrader: (0)	RANDY POBST'S IMPRESSIONS my response on it. On handling... "The 1M is an improvement on the 135, which I've spent some time in, but NOT my favorite car. In fact, between you and me, I hate this car. It won't turn. The thing I didn't like about the 135 was its mid-corner understeer, its reluctance to turn once it was in the corner, and the 1M still does that. And it's the primary thing I remember after driving the car. That it is very lazy on turn-in." I am race car driver too. But i can understand why bmw does certain things. Yes it s much better than a 135i. It won t turn in if you compare it to a race car. You need to compare it to its competition. Go drive an Audi RS3 or Audi TT. If you want more turn it. Just alter geo settings a bit. It s very easy. On the transmission... "The shifter is slick, and light. I really enjoy that. You gotta do it just with your fingertips. If you try to muscle it with a fist, you're gonna get the wrong gear." Never had that problem. Even with the 8 min ring time i had no shifting problems whatsoever. On the seats... "I like the seats a lot, very comfortable and supportive, except...too high. I'm a tall guy; this reminds me a lot of the older Volvos or Range Rovers where they mount the seat really high so you can get a good view. Which is great, but I'm tall, I'm already high. I want to be down in the car. And I couldn't lower the seat enough, and I just felt like I was sitting on the car, not in the car, which I'm not a fan of." Yes the seats are to high. As a racing driver you want to sit as low as possible. But keep in mind. Not all are race cars drivers you also have less tall people. Bmw need to compromise. But you can easily buy aftermarket raceseats if you wish. On the steering... "Steering, relatively slow ratio, which I actually like because I think everyone turns in too fast. I've always liked BMW for building that into their cars. I just didn't like what happened with the handling as I turned the wheel, there was just not enough response entering the corner. And braking hard made it worse. A lot worse. I mean, that car would go straight if I was in the brakes very hard at all. So, I found it very disappointing." Steering ratio is sharper then a normal bmw. Not enough response entering the corner he says. It s a compromise and a sporty one. If you want more response put some semi slicks on and wider front tires. Put some camber on and some toe out and there is you're response. You driving street tires on the track they are getting too hot and loose grip easily. And besides that the car is properly a test car from bmw which has had it s hammering already. On the engine... "The engine is smooth, the power is reasonably good, but in today's world, that's not a fast car. I'm telling ya, it is not a fast car in today's world. Maybe because I've just spent too much time in 500-horsepower cars." hahaha that s just utterly .... reasonable good lol. The car is fast real fast. You need very expensive cars to keep up. Overall... "It's almost like it was built by safety engineers. But only until you get on the power, and then, getting on the power, it's not really good at putting the power down, either. I'm just not impressed with this car. I like the M3 so much that I find the 1M to be very, very disappointing, though the M3 understeers too much, too. I think the lawyers are running the handling department at BMW right now, and they don't have to. Just make it handle like the 1988 M3 did -- that car was perfect. You know, I hate to pick on what is obviously overall is a pretty good car, but in today's world there are not very many cars I hate...I hate this car." This man is tired and getting old. He lives in the past. He should build a car himself with 500hp and sharp turn in. Lets see how manny lawyers are knocking on his door. Forget this guy very fast. I am gonna tell you all a secret i bought 2 1M i have a black one which is my daily and i have bought a white one which is gonna be my track day car. I keep you update about the changes i did. Yeah i am crazy i know but i like the car very very very much. You will see new movies on the nurburgring for sure. Last edited by Advevo; 09-02-2011 at 05:07 AM..
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09-02-2011, 06:04 AM	#53
superchargedman Captain 68 Rep 939 Posts Drives: The ///Mbulance: 1M AW Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Canada iTrader: (1)	The 302 was specifically designed to kill the m3 at the track, so the fact that the laguna did it doesn't surprise or make much difference to me. I bought the 1m for the all around gestalt of the package.
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09-02-2011, 07:48 AM	#54
TX78666 Lieutenant 7 Rep 443 Posts Drives: e46 330i ZHP, N55 135i Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: 78666 iTrader: (0)	Wow. I read the reviews and watch the videos, because they are entertaining. I've already picked my car. I don't need anyone to validate that choice. I love my 135. I love my e46. With both, I considered the M models, but they weren't the right fit for me at the time. That being said, as far as these sorts of reviews go, it is safe to say that the 135 falls even lower on his list than the M. I'm not losing any sleep over it. I just don't get why people get all spun up about someone saying they don't like their car. Are you driving it for you, or for everyone else? __________________ Because... grocery getter.
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09-02-2011, 09:51 AM	#58
Maniac992 Enlisted Member 0 Rep 32 Posts Drives: 1M Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Toronto iTrader: (0)	This statement is just complete rubbish and in my opinion he loses all credibility here (I mean its a $53k car for gods sake): On the engine... "The engine is smooth, the power is reasonably good, but in today's world, that's not a fast car. I'm telling ya, it is not a fast car in today's world. Maybe because I've just spent too much time in 500-horsepower cars." But whatever, to each his own, I have no problem with criticism. What a race car driver thinks of a 1M in a race environment has little bearing on how I like it as a daily driver with occasional track days. Last edited by Maniac992; 09-02-2011 at 10:13 AM..
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09-02-2011, 09:56 AM	#59
TX78666 Lieutenant 7 Rep 443 Posts Drives: e46 330i ZHP, N55 135i Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: 78666 iTrader: (0)	I thought he offered some specific reasons for his opinion of the car. There is plenty of information out there, about how to improve the handling/performance of this car, if that is the intent. No real need for a reviewer to speculate about what might improve it. Again, I'm driving my cars for me. What anyone else thinks of the cars is immaterial. If he had loved the car, would that have somehow made it a better car than it already is? Did his review somehow make it worse? It's like people are reading/watching for validation, and then get offended if they don't get it. I can see disagreeing with the review, although it is unlikely that any of us have taken all of those other cars to the track, for comparison, so our basis for disagreeing is somewhat suspect. I just can't understand being offended, and it really seems like some people are offended. __________________ Because... grocery getter.
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09-02-2011, 11:09 AM	#63
Fundahl Captain 8 Rep 704 Posts Drives: VO 1M, 300zx TT Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Corpus Christi, Texas iTrader: (0)	I'm pretty sure he would notice if the nanny systems were still on, but you never know. Also my previous statements are based on the text review, I have yet been able to view the video. It would certainly be interesting if he could provide some feedback directly on this forum.
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