The 135 is boring.

[MVF4Rrider]

Originally Posted by mtla4

I dont want to sound like an ass but did you ever said something valuable about the one I feel that youre trolling. Did you had or were a passenger in the 335?

The truth isn't valuable? Is it required to praise only?? Personally as a former 135i owner I think I've paid the price of admission and opinion. Then again, I've never been one to cater to the sheep. I learned a valuable lesson in my months with the 1. First, wish I had bought the 335i (I would have kept that one). Second, if wanting a 1, wish I would have bought the 128 and spent some of the savings on suspension bits and real Brembo brakes. Third, I would have ordered silver or black instead of crimson red. IMO, the red brings out the lines in all the wrong ways.

[Spook]

Originally Posted by Balls

The truth isn't valuable? Is it required to praise only??

I think most pretty much agree that the Z4M is much better sports car. I think most also agree that the 135 is a better high speed commuter/daily driver. Guess it depends on what you want. There is no perfect car.

I think the 'troll' comments were directed at the individual promoting a Honda Fit and used miata as the a better alternative for enthusiasts than a 135. As far as I can tell, that person is a troll.

[hector]

Originally Posted by Balls

The Z4 M is the most driver's car of all BMWs by a long shot,.... Ultimately BMW could only do so much with the 1's current platform. Perhaps the next generation 1 will be the driver's car some think it is today??? Doubtful though as the new Z4 will also fall fate to too many modern conveniences, automations, and driver's aids.

the best bet for a true "driver's car" may be the z2 to be built off of the next 1 series, if indeed it is ever produced. as a 4cyl. only car, i expect that the hood will be a lot shorter than that of the z4 which should make it even more nimble.

[mtla4]

Originally Posted by Balls

The truth isn't valuable? Is it required to praise only?? Personally as a former 135i owner I think I've paid the price of admission and opinion. Then again, I've never been one to cater to the sheep. I learned a valuable lesson in my months with the 1. First, wish I had bought the 335i (I would have kept that one). Second, if wanting a 1, wish I would have bought the 128 and spent some of the savings on suspension bits and real Brembo brakes. Third, I would have ordered silver or black instead of crimson red. IMO, the red brings out the lines in all the wrong ways.

Balls when you read my post you can see that I found this car tame and I said many times that I should have bought something else. I gave this car a shot coming from other brands. I remember that you had a modified TT(I remember because I had an Audi when I first started posting). I track my cars and this car doesnt cut it with the soft suspension.

Then you get some guys that only drove it around the parking lot and to name one Whya1(why a one). The guy probably never had any intention to buy one. Saying that a cobalt ss,miata,fit and so are better than a 135 or 335. Its called bashing because the car is a bmw. When people ask me what I drive I say 135 never mention bmw(im low key)I dont care for the badges at all(car could be a hyundai genesis which looks promising by the way )

Ive owned my 135 and I did 7000 km with, hard driving(very hard), one wheel slides(lack of lsd), track days and I know that next year its either an M coupe,e90 m3 or a cayman S just for the fact that the 135 is too torquey, easy to drive, soft suspension. For some guys the 1 is more than enough but it leaves me on my appetite.

P.S I would have bought an M coupe but 68K cdn vs 45K for my barebone 1. I wasnt thinking in January 2008 that it was worth the 23K difference but I should have fork out the difference.

[whya1?]

Originally Posted by mtla4

Balls when you read my post you can see that I found this car tame and I said many times that I should have bought something else. I gave this car a shot coming from other brands. I remember that you had a modified TT(I remember because I had an Audi when I first started posting). I track my cars and this car doesnt cut it with the soft suspension.

Then you get some guys that only drove it around the parking lot and to name one Whya1(why a one). The guy probably never had any intention to buy one. Saying that a cobalt ss,miata,fit and so are better than a 135 or 335. Its called bashing because the car is a bmw. When people ask me what I drive I say 135 never mention bmw(im low key)I dont care for the badges at all(car could be a hyundai genesis which looks promising by the way )

Ive owned my 135 and I did 7000 km with, hard driving(very hard), one wheel slides(lack of lsd), track days and I know that next year its either an M coupe,e90 m3 or a cayman S just for the fact that the 135 is too torquey, easy to drive, soft suspension. For some guys the 1 is more than enough but it leaves me on my appetite.

I feel the same way, i only had the experience with a 335, not a 135. I tried a 135 but it didn't address my problems with the 335. I have no problem with BMW and really like the Z3M and Z4M. 8k miles on the 335 convinced me it was the wrong car. Actually 4k convinced me but it was pretty so i kept it a bit longer. If the 1 series HAD been lighter feeling and more raw I might have bought one.

The Honda Fit/Miata comparison was made because if you are looking for something light, fun and cheap they fit the bill. The 135 does not.

When I bought the 3 series I looked at the Z4M but couldn't convince myself that it was worth the extra money. I also thought I would want the convenience of a backseat. I was wrong on both accounts. I found I like fun driving more than convenience. I really came close to also buying a 05 Boxster S but the seats pinched my shoulders something fierce. That car, with different seats, is perfect.

[whya1?]

Originally Posted by hector

the best bet for a true "driver's car" may be the z2 to be built off of the next 1 series, if indeed it is ever produced. as a 4cyl. only car, i expect that the hood will be a lot shorter than that of the z4 which should make it even more nimble.

If they can make it 2500lbs or less it will be fantastic.

[mtla4]

Originally Posted by whya1?

I feel the same way, i only had the experience with a 335, not a 135. I tried a 135 but it didn't address my problems with the 335. I have no problem with BMW and really like the Z3M and Z4M. 8k miles on the 335 convinced me it was the wrong car. Actually 4k convinced me but it was pretty so i kept it a bit longer. If the 1 series HAD been lighter feeling and more raw I might have bought one.

The Honda Fit/Miata comparison was made because if you are looking for something light, fun and cheap they fit the bill. The 135 does not.

When I bought the 3 series I looked at the Z4M but couldn't convince myself that it was worth the extra money. I also thought I would want the convenience of a backseat. I was wrong on both accounts. I found I like fun driving more than convenience. I really came close to also buying a 05 Boxster S but the seats pinched my shoulders something fierce. That car, with different seats, is perfect.

Now I understand...I might have been a bit rude and straight to the point but were on the same page

[mistermojorizin]

i don't get how you guys are considering being "too torquey" and "easy to drive" as bad things for a sports car.

fact: torque wins races (and feels fun)
fact: a magazine recently picked the r8 as the best handling car not because it got the best numbers (viper) but because it was easy to drive. also, the evo ix was often touted as an easy to drive car that made even novice drivers look good.

not saying its the greatest car, or that its without faults, but i think some of you guys just have a certain stereotype of what a sports car "should" be, namely, unrefined and peaky.

i disagree. torque is a good thing. easier to drive inspires confidence. i test drove an m coupe before getting the 1 and i wasn't really impressed. it felt peaky and not fun below 6,000 rpm. i also didn't see any modding potential without going f/i on that car.

please throw out some other cars you would get instead for similar money that could be cheaply modded to put out 340whp and weigh below 3400lbs that are more fun.

[Spook]

But I'm a purist. An aficionado extraordinaire. Forget trunk space. Forget back seats. Forget a suspension that can deal with the vagaries of the roads I encounter. I keep my cars above 4000 rpm. Always. I use R compound tire exclusively. I am true. It is not about transport of people and the goods that litter the cars of the mundane. My needs are more exalted than mere commutes or grocery runs or trips around town. I require, no, I must have performance that will raise me above the gray normality of driving for the masses. They know me at Nurburgring. I am on Bernie Ecclestones' speed dial. Commute? I *drive*.

[Guibo]

Originally Posted by Spook

I think the 'troll' comments were directed at the individual promoting a Honda Fit and used miata as the a better alternative for enthusiasts than a 135. As far as I can tell, that person is a troll.

After reading more of his posts, I'm inclined to agree. 1er vs TT vs RX8 vs Corvette/Genesis/Miata/S2000/Cayman/MazdaSpeed3/CooperClubman/whatever...no matter what it is, the 1er just doesn't measure up. 8K miles of experience on a 335, yet in a thread about the 135i's fuel economy, he brings up the economy of his friend's 335. Plenty of good-looking, raw-feeling 2002's and E30's can be had for well under $10K, yet he's here "debating" about whether he should drop 30 large on a car that's (in his opinion) only slightly better looking than a poke in the eye.

[silversh]

Why so sensitive about people not agreeing that the 135i is the best thing since four wheels with an engine was invented?

I recently test drove a 1 coupe and was very impressed with the feel, much more than I had gone in expecting. But it was totally different from the Miata that I had driven (which I wasn't seriously considering), and which I could immediately see the appeal of. The 1 was smooth without being too much of a boat. As a sports car... well perhaps it's just my fond memories, but the Prelude SH i used to drive felt more nimble on the back roads. And before that I had a much slower RX-7 (2nd) which was an even more fun car (when it would run).

And to be honest, if you asked me whether I preferred a Porsche or a faster-on-paper 135i, I'd probably take the Porsche, too, if I could afford it or live with a 2-seater.

So, I like the 1, but why can't I appreciate "other" as well (speaking in support of all the differing opinions here).


And yes, if you are a true enthusiast, you have to at least consider the possibility of a dedicated race car and a beater daily driver.

[Guibo]

Don't recall anyone here saying the 135i is the best thing since four wheels and an engine was invented. The issue (aside from whether the 135i is actually boring) seems to be one of balance and tradeoffs: the cars listed have compromises as well (doesn't run, costs a lot, only 2 seats, etc.). Not everyone has the time to maintain (nor space to contain) a dedicated race car and a daily driver beater. Having both doesn't necessarily mean you will be satisfied all the time either.

[MVF4Rrider]

Originally Posted by mistermojorizin

i don't get how you guys are considering being "too torquey" and "easy to drive" as bad things for a sports car.

fact: torque wins races (and feels fun)
fact: a magazine recently picked the r8 as the best handling car not because it got the best numbers (viper) but because it was easy to drive. also, the evo ix was often touted as an easy to drive car that made even novice drivers look good.

not saying its the greatest car, or that its without faults, but i think some of you guys just have a certain stereotype of what a sports car "should" be, namely, unrefined and peaky.

i disagree. torque is a good thing. easier to drive inspires confidence. i test drove an m coupe before getting the 1 and i wasn't really impressed. it felt peaky and not fun below 6,000 rpm. i also didn't see any modding potential without going f/i on that car.

please throw out some other cars you would get instead for similar money that could be cheaply modded to put out 340whp and weigh below 3400lbs that are more fun.

The 135i is a hairsplitter's dream. "My car has more power than your car...therefore it must be better". Well, I was at the Porsche factory in Stuttgart on Saturday and saw plenty of cars with sub 300 hp and everyone of them would be far more fun to drive and own than a 135i. Power isn't everything. There's so much more to the experience of driving than an imbalanced 135i can offer. There's sight and sound, feel and feedback, precision and control, predictability and stability, etc., etc. The 135i is a sporty DD at best...jack of all trades and master of none. Mod it (motor) and you'll create even more imbalance. Ultimately, there's no need to give it an ounce more power (and stupid while under warranty). The chasis can barely handle the current output as is. But it could sure use a complete suspension overhaul. And the brakes aren't that great either. I think BMW did what they could with the current platform (which perhaps was too limiting in size?). I expect the 2nd generation 1 to be far better. I little less tall and wider would be nice, and wheel wells that can fit proper wheels.

As for torque, sure it's great unless the drivetrain can't handle it (ie, 135i). It's too easy to spin the rear tires and it's less predictable due to the turbo lag. I'll take the 4 years-in-a-row award winning S54 over the N54 any day. No fun under 6,000? You must be thinking S2000, or you've had too many tokes on the crack pipe!

[mistermojorizin]

Originally Posted by Balls

The 135i is a hairsplitter's dream. "My car has more power than your car...therefore it must be better". Well, I was at the Porsche factory in Stuttgart on Saturday and saw plenty of cars with sub 300 hp and everyone of them would be far more fun to drive and own than a 135i. Power isn't everything. There's so much more to the experience of driving than an imbalanced 135i can offer. There's sight and sound, feel and feedback, precision and control, predictability and stability, etc., etc. The 135i is a sporty DD at best...jack of all trades and master of none. Mod it (motor) and you'll create even more imbalance. Ultimately, there's no need to give it an ounce more power (and stupid while under warranty). The chasis can barely handle the current output as is. But it could sure use a complete suspension overhaul. And the brakes aren't that great either. I think BMW did what they could with the current platform (which perhaps was too limiting in size?). I expect the 2nd generation 1 to be far better. I little less tall and wider would be nice, and wheel wells that can fit proper wheels.

As for torque, sure it's great unless the drivetrain can't handle it (ie, 135i). It's too easy to spin the rear tires and it's less predictable due to the turbo lag. I'll take the 4 years-in-a-row award winning S54 over the N54 any day. No fun under 6,000? You must be thinking S2000, or you've had too many tokes on the crack pipe!

most of what you wrote there doesn't address what i said - that torquey and easy to drive aren't bad things to have in a sports car. you start to address what i said at the end. you start by saying that it's too easy to spin the rear tires and it's less predictable due to the turbo lag. well lets take it 1 at a time

1) too easy to spin the rear's? compared to what? have you driven a corvette or a viper or a 911 turbo? or do you just drive those porsche's with under 300hp? drive one of the high end sports cars and then tell me that they don't spin the rears as much as the 135i. perhaps this is why you don't get that the s54 is so week at anything below redline.

2) turbo lag - yea its there and i would say its the achilles heel of this car, but this turbo lag is NOTHING compared to a porsche 911 turbo's lag, or that found in a mitsubishi evo or sti.

as far as handling, my driving ability reaches its limit way before the car reaches its limits. as far as breaks go, they don't fade and produce respectable stopping power, that's all i need.

i'm not saying its the best car, or that its perfectly balanced or as nimble as a miata or an s2000. i just don't think that being torquey, and easily modable for power is one of its downsides.

[LeoHammer]

Caymans/Boxters are extremely precise and beautifully balanced but at the same time too easy to control at higher speeds . . . if you are finding that your wheels are too easy to spin in any car, learn to use your right foot . . . oh and don't forget that a 135i can be considered a sensible family car and as such it is an extremely fun car. I test drove the Cayman S, liked it . . . but if I was buying a sporty 2 seater, I would have deffinetly gone with the Z4M . . . to me it just feels more manly and brutally satisfying than anything Porsche makes for the same price.
Then again I prefer hammer/chisel over laser cutters.

[MVF4Rrider]

Originally Posted by LeoHammer

Caymans/Boxters are extremely precise and beautifully balanced but at the same time too easy to control at higher speeds . . . if you are finding that your wheels are too easy to spin in any car, learn to use your right foot . . . oh and don't forget that a 135i can be considered a sensible family car and as such it is an extremely fun car. I test drove the Cayman S, liked it . . . but if I was buying a sporty 2 seater, I would have deffinetly gone with the Z4M . . . to me it just feels more manly and brutally satisfying than anything Porsche makes for the same price.
Then again I prefer hammer/chisel over laser cutters.

That was my opinion. I debated the Z4M, new M3, and Cayman/Boxster S. No matter how I sliced and diced, I always came up with the Z4 M. All it needs is better (looking) brakes!

[imported_mega]

if you dont need back seats your really in the wrong market if your looking at a 135i

if you need back seats, not a single other car I drove compared

[PaddlePusher]

To quote Jerry Seinfeld "Who are these people?" Honestly, I hope at this point the people who dislike the 1 are tire-kickers. I, for one, can't spend $45k and then say in 8,000 miles, "I'm probably gonna get rid of this car very soon and go back to my beloved Miata, Honda 2000, WRX, blah, blah." Give me a break! Take your friggen Miata/2000 combo and shove it.

Love my 135, bought the winter wheels/tires, nothing's perfect, plan to live and love it for years to come. (Oh, and try to sell your WRX and 5 years and let's see what you get.)

[Yearofthe1]

Originally Posted by mega

if you dont need back seats your really in the wrong market if your looking at a 135i

if you need back seats, not a single other car I drove compared

I think the main point people should take from this discussion is that for what the 135i is, there really isn't much out there that can compare. It is when people start faulting the 135 for what it isn't that the insanity begins. This is a BMW - a car that can be comfortably used as a DD, can haul the groceries, is fun to drive, offers a level of luxury not found in Mazdas and Hondas, and can satisfy at the track (which most BMW drivers don't do anyway). It's what BMW does best.

You could knock ANY car on the market for what it isn't. But for what the 135i is, there aren't many cars in its league.

[Duckw]

Amen, yearofthe1, and might we add that those who choose the 1er's particular set of trade-offs are not necessarily undiscriminating badge whores with no knowledge or experience of "real" sports cars? Spook's little ironic sally above was right on the money.

[MVF4Rrider]

Originally Posted by mega

if you dont need back seats your really in the wrong market if your looking at a 135i

if you need back seats, not a single other car I drove compared

There's no real appreciable difference in the 335i and 135i in terms of performance. The 335i is far more elegant and just as capable of a GT as the 135i, and a better DD if space is a concern. Also has much nicer interior and has a far nicer/more aggressive exterior.

People would probably stop comparing the 135i to 2-seater sports cars (Z4M, S2000, Boxsters, Caymans) if people would stop making comments to infer the 135i is at those performance and driver's car levels. It's no where near as balanced a package and would never pass as a real sports car anyway. Nonetheless, the 135i is a fine car. I'm hoping BMW puts a high output 4 banger in it and does some restyling inside and out.

Personally I would have purchased an Audi S3 Quattro over the 135i if available in the US. May not be as powerful or fast, but should provide more thrills. Power isn't everything, but the 270 PS S3 has plenty of real world power, and the Quattro system does a great job of putting it where needed (especially with the upgraded Haldex performance controller--$1,000). For this car, I would accept a little turbo lag...

[Spook]

Originally Posted by mega

if you dont need back seats your really in the wrong market if your looking at a 135i

if you need back seats, not a single other car I drove compared

+1 Though my 'must have' requirement was the practicality of a daily driver for a 25 mile each way commute.

What I find annoying is the position that if it isn't a purpose built sports machine then it's not fun to drive. I have difficulty with the proposition that there are those among us so pure in their automotive pursuits that it's boring if it's a modern GT short of a 997.

I think we need a 'The 135 is impractical..' thread so people who love SUV's can chime in on how anything less than a Ford Excursion is hobbled.

-Spook