Future Turbo Systems

[SlicktopTTZ]

Just curious to see what you guys are expecting/hoping to see in future turbo related products for the N54. Maybe we could make a list and if there is enough intrest a company such as AMS or Boost Logic will pick up on it and begin developing products for our cars if they aren't already. I know AMS and a few other companys are producing upgraded twins but I personally would like to see a single turbo manifold with a medium-sized billet turbo, external wastegate with seperate dump tube (aka screamer pipe) and non-reduced exhaust piping from the turbine to the muffler.

What do you guys think? Sure it would be slightly laggy, maybe full spool by 3000-3500 rpm, but high rpm power would be phenomenal!

[ichiban]

does billet make a twin scroll? If we do, then we can get that center exit exhaust.

[SlicktopTTZ]

Originally Posted by ichiban

does billet make a twin scroll? If we do, then we can get that center exit exhaust.

Not sure what you are saying, and I'm sure we can find a company to source a twin-scroll, billet compressor wheel turbo.

[SlicktopTTZ]

AMS or anyone else, any thoughts on this? This platform has huge potential I think, it's kind of like a German MK4 Supra! Not iron block, I know, but with the right hardware and tuning I think we can get some really nice numbers with stock internals.

[randomquickness]

search on e90 post and n54 tech...you will see what is and will be developed. AMS and HPF are currently working on single turbo conversions. The hold up is the fuel delivery and a stand alone engine management to support it

[frimmelnojerz]

Originally Posted by randomquickness

stand alone engine management to support it

this phrase and "daily driver" are not often used in the same sentence. you guys can have your 5-6 hundred HP cars that break down and act weird every time you get a bad batch of gas.

[rcracer_tx]

Originally Posted by ichiban

does billet make a twin scroll? If we do, then we can get that center exit exhaust.

I'm not sure I am understanding your point on the exhaust... The turbos have nothing to do with it, its the exhaust tunnel location that prevents center exhuast.

[randomquickness]

Originally Posted by frimmelnojerz

this phrase and "daily driver" are not often used in the same sentence. you guys can have your 5-6 hundred HP cars that break down and act weird every time you get a bad batch of gas.

??? I see what you're saying...but that is a pretty general statement. you can have that much power in a dd and not have problems all the time. Are you saying you personally don't want to risk it with your car?

[ichiban]

i was just thinking in the line of twin scroll = single dual exit exhaust (i guess also dual single as well lol, just my train of thought, nothing factual.

[SpeedballTrix]

Originally Posted by randomquickness

you can have that much power in a dd and not have problems all the time

QFT.

Bugatti Veyron: 1000hp and drivable to and from work every day.
ZR1, Viper, F60, Gallardo: All 500+hp and drivable to and from work every day with a warranty to boot. And the list could go on.

Guns dont kill people and horsepower does not break cars.
Stupid people do.

[MadMan77]

Originally Posted by SpeedballTrix

QFT.

Bugatti Veyron: 1000hp and drivable to and from work every day.
ZR1, Viper, F60, Gallardo: All 500+hp and drivable to and from work every day with a warranty to boot. And the list could go on.

Guns dont kill people and horsepower does not break cars.
Stupid people do.

Those are purpose-built vehicles from the manufacturer. Not vehicles with extensive engine mods that are far from stock. Let alone with a stand-alone ECU that does not interact with the rest of the car like the manufacturer intended.

[randomquickness]

Originally Posted by MadMan77

Those are purpose-built vehicles from the manufacturer. Not vehicles with extensive engine mods that are far from stock. Let alone with a stand-alone ECU that does not interact with the rest of the car like the manufacturer intended.

very true...however, most who build "purpose built" cars A) know what they're getting into or B) can afford not to care.

[MadMan77]

Originally Posted by randomquickness

very true...however, most who build "purpose built" cars A) know what they're getting into or B) can afford not to care.

I was just pointing out the fact that he was posting up vehicles made by the manufacturer when we are clearly talking about highly-modifying our 135s here.

[randomquickness]

^you're right, we agree. But there are still plenty of highly modified cars that are daily drivable...so it's not good to make a statement like this "you guys can have your 5-6 hundred HP cars that break down and act weird every time you get a bad batch of gas."

[MadMan77]

Originally Posted by randomquickness

^you're right, we agree. But there are still plenty of highly modified cars that are daily drivable...so it's not good to make a statement like this "you guys can have your 5-6 hundred HP cars that break down and act weird every time you get a bad batch of gas."

I hear you there. We should be able to reach 500HP with a single/dual-turbo setup but without a stand alone ECU.

Oh wait....

Cough... ASR... Cough.

[SpeedballTrix]

Originally Posted by MadMan77

Those are purpose-built vehicles from the manufacturer. Not vehicles with extensive engine mods that are far from stock. Let alone with a stand-alone ECU that does not interact with the rest of the car like the manufacturer intended.

As I said: stupid people break cars, not horsepower.
Nor replaced turbos, nor stand alone ECUs.

With an intelligent person doing the modifying there is absolutely no reason that a vehicle with a standalone ECU running an aftermarket turbo kit and fuel system has to be any less reliable than the factory vehicle.
In fact there are plenty of examples throughout the community of people doing precisely that and never breaking anything on the car.

You can take a 100% bone stock car and break it if you are stupid about it and so can an intelligent person take a car and modify the hell out of it and never have a problem.

[MadMan77]

Originally Posted by SpeedballTrix

As I said: stupid people break cars, not horsepower.
Nor replaced turbos, nor stand alone ECUs.

With an intelligent person doing the modifying there is absolutely no reason that a vehicle with a standalone ECU running an aftermarket turbo kit and fuel system has to be any less reliable than the factory vehicle.
In fact there are plenty of examples throughout the community of people doing precisely that and never breaking anything on the car.

You can take a 100% bone stock car and break it if you are stupid about it and so can an intelligent person take a car and modify the hell out of it and never have a problem.

If you read my posts above you will see all I was talking about was comparing a production vehicle to a modified 135.

Point your remarks about "intelligent people" to the people involved in that conversation about reliable "daily drivers".

[frimmelnojerz]

Originally Posted by randomquickness

??? I see what you're saying...but that is a pretty general statement. you can have that much power in a dd and not have problems all the time. Are you saying you personally don't want to risk it with your car?

no not at all and i agree that high horsepower cars can be driven daily without a hiccup. i'm saying stand alone systems yield tempermental cars that turn owner's hair grey. if there were a off the shelf tune for the single turbo i would be more supportive but based alone on some of the general questions some users post here i would not trust them to brush their teeth without hurting themselves let alone monitor and operate a stand alone engine management system.

[frimmelnojerz]

Originally Posted by SpeedballTrix

Guns dont kill people and horsepower does not break cars.
Stupid people do.

thats my argument. i guess i didn't state it clearly enough. i think pitching a stand alone system to this particular market is super dangerous.

[SpeedballTrix]

Originally Posted by MadMan77

If you read my posts above you will see all I was talking about was comparing a production vehicle to a modified 135.

And if you read mine you'll see that I'm stating that there's no difference.
An intelligently modified 135 is the same thing as a produciton vehicle in the scope of the discussion, which is reliability if I understand correctly.

I wish I could prove it to you with my own car, but alas Im pretty much broke trying to save up for a house on Long Island, which is about a billion and half dollars =P
However, I point to any of the highly modified 135s you can read about on this very board. The Berk car, for example, is pretty well modified and they report no issues I'm aware of. Not even the overheating that some people seemed to be plagued with. J_Tyler himself has even stated (iirc) that when he put the car on the track with the stock intercooler he was expecting bad overheating like he had been hearing about but realized that with one cooldown lap every few hard ones he was worry free.

[MadMan77]

Originally Posted by SpeedballTrix

And if you read mine you'll see that I'm stating that there's no difference.
An intelligently modified 135 is the same thing as a produciton vehicle in the scope of the discussion, which is reliability if I understand correctly.

I wish I could prove it to you with my own car, but alas Im pretty much broke trying to save up for a house on Long Island, which is about a billion and half dollars =P
However, I point to any of the highly modified 135s you can read about on this very board. The Berk car, for example, is pretty well modified and they report no issues I'm aware of. Not even the overheating that some people seemed to be plagued with. J_Tyler himself has even stated (iirc) that when he put the car on the track with the stock intercooler he was expecting bad overheating like he had been hearing about but realized that with one cooldown lap every few hard ones he was worry free.

Isn't rationalizing great?

A Modified 135i ≠ High-Powered Production Vehicles (as far as this thread goes)

Period.

Edit: BTW, Berks car is not a high-horsepower car with after-market turbos. Yes, they have custom tuning but most of their mods were done to make the car handle better so as to utilize it's power better.

[SpeedballTrix]

Originally Posted by MadMan77

Isn't rationalizing great?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/rationalize
I think you were looking for http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/describe

Unless you were referring specifically to definition 4.
Then you get a thumbs up.

Originally Posted by MadMan77

A Modified 135i ≠ High-Powered Production Vehicles (as far as this thread goes)

And I am saying that it is. And neither of us is going to convince the other of his point. The difference is that two people in this thread agreed with me in my point that an intelligently modified vehicle is, for all intents and purposes save warranty issues (or the ability to race as an "all stock" car), precisely the same.
Specifically in the area of reliability you mentioned multiple times.

But as I said, neither of us is going to convince the other, so perhaps we should just stick the topic which is to speculate on the direction we would like to, or expect to, see future aftermarket turbo systems made for the n54.