Autocar: Britain's Best Driver's Car 2011 - Randy Pobst may be right after all!

GoingTooFast · 10-13-2011, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete_vB

Multiple testers have now mentioned understeer at the track, which is also not unexpected. The 1M was always going to have issues putting power down given the light rear end and huge torque, and that equates to oversteer on power. To counter that you must dial in more understeer off power, no other choice.

Reading this I would thought this car was a nightmare... issues putting the power down on slippery conditions, understeer in time atack mode with good road/track conditions... man, what else?!

Where is the 1M that so much resembled the mighty E30 M3?!

Does the press know what they are talking about?! Does Randy Pobst really have reasons to hate the 1M?!

Was there too much hype about the 1M by the press initially?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete_vB

I'd get a set of Pilot Super Sports for the road and call it a day.

Why not a set of Yokohama's ADVAN Neova AD08?!

Fundahl · 10-13-2011, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Why not a set of Yokohama's ADVAN Neova AD08?!

Best street tires I have ever owned. Wear out quick though.

And to answer EmmDrei, yes autocross is a timed event where big open areas are turned into courses by placing cones. The one I go to is run by Sports Car Club of America. (SCCA)

There is always a few hairpins, a slalom section, gates, esses and some big "sweeper" turns. It LOTS of fun! You get to see how your car transitions weight, brakes and accelerates without lots of money spent and planning. Plus, you can generally drive much more aggressively on an AutoX course VS a road course where there is potential for major damage and more rules.

GoingTooFast · 10-13-2011, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fundahl

Best street tires I have ever owned. Wear out quick though.

Do you have any experience with the PSS's?

Pete_vB · 10-13-2011, 12:48 PM

I suspect the PSS isn't as good at higher temperature as the AD08, but at street temps I'd think they would be comparable. The PSS is up there with or better than the RE-11s dry grip; they remind me a bit of RA1s except that the RA1s just get better with heat. On the other hand the PSS is just ridiculously good in the wet, and obviously wears much better.

GoingTooFast · 10-13-2011, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete_vB

I suspect the PSS isn't as good at higher temperature as the AD08, but at street temps I'd think they would be comparable.

Yes. That seems to be the consensus. And also that the PSS are smoother and quieter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete_vB

On the other hand the PSS is just ridiculously good in the wet, and obviously wears much better.

Do you think the PSS is better in the wet than the Yoko's AD08?

Pete_vB · 10-13-2011, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

Yes. That seems to be the consensus. And also that the PSS are smoother and quieter.

Do you think the PSS is better in the wet than the Yoko's AD08?

I don't have seat time on the AD08 in the wet, but yes I believe it is, especially if there is standing water. It took the first couple places in the One Lap wet skidpad, it has far more void area than the AD08 for standing water, I can squeal the tires in the wet, and it's slightly better than past masters (Goodyear Asymmetric). I suspect they are the current best wet tires available short of a hoosier or Kumho wet- tire rack has them at .97 Gs on the wet skidpad...

GoingTooFast · 10-13-2011, 01:37 PM

Ok, thanks!

Fundahl,

How would you rate the Yoko's in the wet against the PSS?

Fundahl · 10-13-2011, 01:39 PM

Oh yeah lol watch for water if you have AD08s on! They will make it through puddles... if you are careful. Definitely NOT the best rain tire! Not many channels for the water to travel through, it's mainly rubber.

I have not tried PSS's on my own car but have in a C5 Z06. To me, it seemed like the PSS was a harder compound, and a bit more "slippery" than the AD08s, but like I said I'd need to try them on the same car.

I DO know that the AD08s leave a more "racing slick looking" skidmark than the PSS's.

GoingTooFast · 10-13-2011, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fundahl

I DO know that the AD08s leave a more "racing slick looking" skidmark than the PSS's.

In the wet you mean...

GoingTooFast · 10-14-2011, 04:20 AM

Video explaining Autocar's choices

Bottom line, they didn't consider the 1M an easy car to drive and ultimately, in its stock form, the 1M wasn't a good track car... relatively speaking.

Randy Pobst thinks the same... and goes as far as to the point of declaring he hated the 1M!

This seems to counter initial press reviews that lead a lot of people to buy the 1M which the same press says now it doesn't live to the hype they started.

So, why would someone buy a car that isn't easy to drive and really needs to be modded to be able to live to its 340hp/500Nm on the track?

No one is saying the same about the E90/E92 M3... or, am I wrong?!

I'm now 100% convinced that the sole purpose of the 1M existence is drifting fun. BMW offers you now two kind of flavours:

1. Track car -> E90/E92 M3
2. Drift car -> 1M

Just pick your flavour... I know what I picked! I think the M3 brigade can rest now...

EmmDrei · 10-14-2011, 05:24 AM

I don't agree with your conclusion, GTF.

The GTS is a track day car. The M3 is no track day car and you'll need loads more cash to make it one, than you would need to make a 1M track ready!

The only things on the 1M that don't work on a track are the seats, the suspension setup and the lousy Michelin tyres (especially in the wet). The M3s seats are as bad, the 19" tyres are the same and the suspension setup on an M3 is the last of its problems, when you're trying to drive a fast lap.

Imho all this "understeer" and "no traction" bs is exactly that. Ever tried to drive a stock M392 on a wet track without DSC and above 8.000 RPM? Both cars are front engine, rwd and they have the exact same "problem" which the concept in itself presents. The only difference is... it's easier to break traction in the 1M because of the way it delivers its power. 80% of the M3 drivers will short-shift in the wet, thus rolling around with less than 300 horses. That tactic won't work in the 1M.

Imho the 1M is a great package if I compare price and raw performance, especially to the M3. Furthermore the 1M is more "back to the roots", simply more of a drivers car. You may be right, it might not live up to the hype. But those that understood what the car was going to be able to do never listened to the hype anyhow and I'm pretty sure, they don't give a flying f*** about what journalists now have to say about the car. They know what it is to them and that's it. I don't need journalistic praise for my car to polish my ego. I want fun when I'm in the car, that's all.

Franklin Joseph · 10-14-2011, 05:37 AM

This review is not about M3 vs 1M, why do you have to stir things up? There are other threads about it, go post there.
You picked your car and so did the rest of the folks here...geez when will this end??? Since i now own a driftcar, guess i will go drifting this morning.

GoingTooFast · 10-14-2011, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmmDrei

Imho all this "understeer" and "no traction" bs is exactly that. Ever tried to drive a stock M392 on a wet track without DSC and above 8.000 RPM? (...) The only difference is... it's easier to break traction in the 1M because of the way it delivers its power. 80% of the M3 drivers will short-shift in the wet, thus rolling around with less than 300 horses. That tactic won't work in the 1M.

This pretty much sums it up. It's a question of confidence and confidence is everything in a track if you want to explore the car limits to its full potential.

This is not a debate about the 1M vs M3 but it's about the sole underlying factor used by Autocar in determining what is an excelent drive's car - CONFIDENCE!

Thus, we have the M3 on the confidence inspiring side of things (it's easy to be fast with the E90/E92 M3) and, on the other hand, we have the 1M for drifting fun for those who have the skills or want to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmmDrei

Both cars are front engine, rwd and they have the exact same "problem" which the concept in itself presents.

But a concept that the E30 M3 so brilliantly resolved. You would never imagined that the 911's concept could win races against equal powered rmrd (rear mid-engine, rear-wheel drive) cars. The 911 layout looks like an 'hammer'

. The simple fact that Porsche is deliberately limiting power below the 911's on their Caymans is the best evidence of just that. And yet, the Cayman R is being considered a better driver's car than the 911 GT3 RS. Why?! Because of that confidence, and all that implies, the Cayman R brings to its driver.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmmDrei

Imho the 1M is a great package if I compare price and raw performance, especially to the M3. Furthermore the 1M is more "back to the roots", simply more of a drivers car. You may be right, it might not live up to the hype. But those that understood what the car was going to be able to do never listened to the hype anyhow and I'm pretty sure, they don't give a flying f*** about what journalists now have to say about the car. They know what it is to them and that's it. I don't need journalistic praise for my car to polish my ego. I want fun when I'm in the car, that's all.

Journalistic opinions are just as valid as anyone else's opinion in this board as far as polishing the ego is concerned.

I don't have that kind of problems.

The problem is when you start to mod the 1M to turn it into a competent track car, instead of the natural drift machine that it is, you are precisely robbing it 'the raw performance' and the "back to the roots" feeling because you are trying to turn it in a more confidence inspiring machine, thus more civilized!

What I'm saying is... it's not 'written' in the 1M DNA to be civilized.

Schnorbitz · 10-14-2011, 10:22 AM

Nevermind the M3, surely the elephant in the room here is the Renault Megane 265 Trophy?

Faster round the 'ring and now judged a better drivers' car by the esteemed Autocar.

bdaddylo · 10-14-2011, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franklin Joseph

This review is not about M3 vs 1M, why do you have to stir things up? There are other threads about it, go post there.
You picked your car and so did the rest of the folks here...geez when will this end??? Since i now own a driftcar, guess i will go drifting this morning.

It's funny how the M3 owners have to jump on our forum to cope with their inadequacies.

mPlasticDesign · 10-14-2011, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

Randy Pobst may be right after all!

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

Thus, that means I was right about Randy Pobst:

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

.....Does Randy Pobst really have reasons to hate the 1M?!Was there too much hype about the 1M by the press initially?....

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

...Randy Pobst thinks the same... and goes as far as to the point of declaring he hated the 1M!

Dude, stop leg-humping Randy Pobst, you're embarrassing yourself. lol

GoingTooFast · 10-14-2011, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdaddylo

It's funny how the M3 owners have to jump on our forum to cope with their inadequacies.

I don't see a single M3 owner participating in this thread... please do enlightening us!

mPlasticDesign · 10-14-2011, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

I don't see a single M3 owner participating in this thread... please do enlightening us!

There are several current and past M3 owners participating you just don't realize it. The Autocar article is a reasonable assessment of the 1M on that track but for you to make the link between Randy Pobst unreasonable comments and this review shows your motive. Too obvious! You fail!

GoingTooFast · 10-14-2011, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Metak2you

Dude, stop leg-humping Randy Pobst, you're embarrassing yourself. lol

I owe him that...

I was unfairly harsh with the guy because of his opinion on the 1M.

What I didn't realize was that he was referring to the 1M from a purely track race driver perspective.

Again, the 1M is a drift car... that's what it was made for.

If you are a drifter or inted to be one buy the 1M. If you are a track nuts buy a Cayman R. If you are a BMW fanboy and a track nuts buy a M3. If you don't have the money for a M3 and you are a track nuts and a BMW fanboy buy the 1M and mod it until you have a proper track car.

If you don't have the money for either and are a track nuts and NOT a BMW fanboy just buy a Renault Megane 265 Trophy!

bdaddylo · 10-14-2011, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

I don't see a single M3 owner participating in this thread... please do enlightening us!

If you're humping an M3, then why don't you buy one? Care to share what you really drive?

mPlasticDesign · 10-14-2011, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

....BMW fanboy and a track nuts buy a M3.

If you don't have the money for a M3 and you are a track nuts and a BMW fanboy buy the 1M.....

You're such an amateur troller. Calling people who buy BMW M3's or 1M's "fanboys" on a BMW forum is gonna get your thread shut down faster. You have to be more subtle.

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GoingTooFast · 10-14-2011, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Metak2you

You're such an amateur troller. Calling people who buy BMW M3's or 1M's "fanboys" on a BMW forum is gonna get your thread shut down faster. You have to be more subtle.

Not if I am ALSO a BMW fanboy... because I really am!

I'm here since 2007 just like you... earlier I must add.

10-13-2011, 12:48 PM	#26
Pete_vB Captain 119 Rep 898 Posts Drives: '69 GT3, GT4, 1M, 912 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: SF Bay Area, Shenzhen, Oman iTrader: (0)	I suspect the PSS isn't as good at higher temperature as the AD08, but at street temps I'd think they would be comparable. The PSS is up there with or better than the RE-11s dry grip; they remind me a bit of RA1s except that the RA1s just get better with heat. On the other hand the PSS is just ridiculously good in the wet, and obviously wears much better. __________________ 1M, GT4, 1969 Porsche 911 w/ 997 GT3 Cup Motor (435hp & 2,100 lbs)
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10-13-2011, 01:37 PM	#29
GoingTooFast Banned 89 Rep 1,247 Posts Drives: fat cars are still boats Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: compensating a fat car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up. iTrader: (0)	Ok, thanks! Fundahl, How would you rate the Yoko's in the wet against the PSS?
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10-13-2011, 01:39 PM	#30
Fundahl Captain 8 Rep 704 Posts Drives: VO 1M, 300zx TT Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Corpus Christi, Texas iTrader: (0)	Oh yeah lol watch for water if you have AD08s on! They will make it through puddles... if you are careful. Definitely NOT the best rain tire! Not many channels for the water to travel through, it's mainly rubber. I have not tried PSS's on my own car but have in a C5 Z06. To me, it seemed like the PSS was a harder compound, and a bit more "slippery" than the AD08s, but like I said I'd need to try them on the same car. I DO know that the AD08s leave a more "racing slick looking" skidmark than the PSS's.
	Appreciate 0

10-14-2011, 04:20 AM	#32
GoingTooFast Banned 89 Rep 1,247 Posts Drives: fat cars are still boats Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: compensating a fat car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up. iTrader: (0)	Video explaining Autocar's choices Bottom line, they didn't consider the 1M an easy car to drive and ultimately, in its stock form, the 1M wasn't a good track car... relatively speaking. Randy Pobst thinks the same... and goes as far as to the point of declaring he hated the 1M! This seems to counter initial press reviews that lead a lot of people to buy the 1M which the same press says now it doesn't live to the hype they started. So, why would someone buy a car that isn't easy to drive and really needs to be modded to be able to live to its 340hp/500Nm on the track? No one is saying the same about the E90/E92 M3... or, am I wrong?! I'm now 100% convinced that the sole purpose of the 1M existence is drifting fun. BMW offers you now two kind of flavours: 1. Track car -> E90/E92 M3 2. Drift car -> 1M Just pick your flavour... I know what I picked! I think the M3 brigade can rest now... Last edited by GoingTooFast; 10-14-2011 at 04:37 AM..
	Appreciate 0

10-14-2011, 05:24 AM	#33
EmmDrei Lieutenant 26 Rep 401 Posts Drives: 2011 Saphire Black 1M Coupé Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: 300km to the Nordschleife iTrader: (0)	I don't agree with your conclusion, GTF. The GTS is a track day car. The M3 is no track day car and you'll need loads more cash to make it one, than you would need to make a 1M track ready! The only things on the 1M that don't work on a track are the seats, the suspension setup and the lousy Michelin tyres (especially in the wet). The M3s seats are as bad, the 19" tyres are the same and the suspension setup on an M3 is the last of its problems, when you're trying to drive a fast lap. Imho all this "understeer" and "no traction" bs is exactly that. Ever tried to drive a stock M392 on a wet track without DSC and above 8.000 RPM? Both cars are front engine, rwd and they have the exact same "problem" which the concept in itself presents. The only difference is... it's easier to break traction in the 1M because of the way it delivers its power. 80% of the M3 drivers will short-shift in the wet, thus rolling around with less than 300 horses. That tactic won't work in the 1M. Imho the 1M is a great package if I compare price and raw performance, especially to the M3. Furthermore the 1M is more "back to the roots", simply more of a drivers car. You may be right, it might not live up to the hype. But those that understood what the car was going to be able to do never listened to the hype anyhow and I'm pretty sure, they don't give a flying f*** about what journalists now have to say about the car. They know what it is to them and that's it. I don't need journalistic praise for my car to polish my ego. I want fun when I'm in the car, that's all. __________________ The best piece of road - worldwide.
	Appreciate 0

10-14-2011, 05:37 AM	#34
Franklin Joseph Captain 57 Rep 820 Posts Drives: BMW Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Texas iTrader: (1)	This review is not about M3 vs 1M, why do you have to stir things up? There are other threads about it, go post there. You picked your car and so did the rest of the folks here...geez when will this end??? Since i now own a driftcar, guess i will go drifting this morning.
	Appreciate 0

10-14-2011, 10:22 AM	#36
Schnorbitz Second Lieutenant 9 Rep 234 Posts Drives: 318d Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Scotland iTrader: (0)	Nevermind the M3, surely the elephant in the room here is the Renault Megane 265 Trophy? Faster round the 'ring and now judged a better drivers' car by the esteemed Autocar.
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