Autocar: Britain's Best Driver's Car 2011 - Randy Pobst may be right after all!

MrRoboto · 10-15-2011, 11:20 AM

Take these reviews with a grain of salt. These guys test these cars for a few hours over a weekend in controlled conditions.

If you want to know how the 1M is as a drivers car ask one of us who live with it daily on and off track and have experience with other cars to compare. (real world cars, not $200k McLaren's)

Also don't pay too much attention to those on the forum who haven't even seen a 1M in person let alone drive on but choose to make judgements on the cars abilities based on a magazine.

1M Fan · 10-15-2011, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete_vB

I suspect the PSS isn't as good at higher temperature as the AD08, but at street temps I'd think they would be comparable. The PSS is up there with or better than the RE-11s dry grip; they remind me a bit of RA1s except that the RA1s just get better with heat. On the other hand the PSS is just ridiculously good in the wet, and obviously wears much better.

I always thought the PS2 where pretty good tires for a DD. The RE-11s are in a different league on dry payment, but I never quite trusted them in heavy rain. If the PSS's are that much better, I can't wait.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fundahl

And to answer EmmDrei, yes autocross is a timed event where big open areas are turned into courses by placing cones. The one I go to is run by Sports Car Club of America. (SCCA)

There is always a few hairpins, a slalom section, gates, esses and some big "sweeper" turns. It LOTS of fun! You get to see how your car transitions weight, brakes and accelerates without lots of money spent and planning. Plus, you can generally drive much more aggressively on an AutoX course VS a road course where there is potential for major damage and more rules.

Autocross racing is lots of fun. I have to agree with the understeer on very slow corners. If you can keep the power on, it doesn't seem to understeer. It is greatly exacerbated if the DSC is not completely turned off because the computer will not let your power through it.

Question: how much camber does the factory put in and can you add another .5 - 1 degree without camber plates? I think it will help

I can't believe they complained that the ride was harsher than the Cayman R and the exhaust was too loud. The ride is near perfect. The exhaust does drone, the Cayman isn't exactly quiet either.

b33g33 · 10-15-2011, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

Said .... "Blah ... Blah ... Ravish me Randy ....."

Why don't you also scan and post the EVO group test where the 1M was actually picked over the Cayman R, TT-RS and the 370Z.

Fundahl · 10-15-2011, 12:17 PM

Lol they wanna hear drone? They need a ride in my Z. It's two open muffler-less 3" pipes coming off of two gt28r's. God i love the music of a high performance internal combustion engine......

I think the max factory camber if you move the struts over and remove some alignment pins is around -1.7°. I could be wrong, i haven't done it myself yet so dont take my word on that.

MrRoboto · 10-15-2011, 12:18 PM

http://www.**************.com/intern...udi-tt-rs.html

GoingTooFast · 10-15-2011, 03:37 PM

Those of us who drove the 1M know that what EVO says about the 1M on the track is the typical journalism hype that I'm complaining about and cannot stand anymore. And the best proof of that is the urgency with which alot of the 1M owners in this board are modding their cars in order to have the necessary confidence to be fast in the track... and I dare to say as fast as they were in the M3.

Don't trust in everything you read from car journalists, not even from EVO:

BlitzM · 10-15-2011, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

Those of us who drove the 1M know that what EVO says about the 1M on the track is the typical journalism hype that I'm complaining about and cannot stand anymore. And the best proof of that is the urgency with which alot of the 1M owners in this board are modding their cars in order to have the necessary confidence to be fast in the track... and I dare to say as fast as they were in the M3.

I am curious, what car do you own?

GoingTooFast · 10-15-2011, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iwanna1M

I am curious, what car do you own?

I own a Cayman and I'm in the process of buying an 1M after driving one. With the M button pressed and with a perfectly dry and slightly - let me underline slightly - bumpy asphalt I could make the wheels spin at WOT in third gear and in a straight.

Do I just love that?!

How would it affect my confidence if I were in an hot lap pushing the car as hard as I could for maximum speed?

Well... let me say I rather prefer 'watching the world go by out of the side window' but at sensible speeds. That's how far I want to go, that's all the fun I need. There's no better car as a daily-drive than the 1M for just that. Brilliant!

PS: The 135i failed to convince me to buy one some years ago, but not the 1M!

mikewills · 10-15-2011, 09:15 PM

I knew there was gonna be a strange twist.

BlitzM · 10-15-2011, 09:33 PM

Yes, a strange twist indeed. I'm scratching my head but think I will let this thread rest.

bdaddylo · 10-15-2011, 09:39 PM

GoingTooFast · 10-15-2011, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikewills

I knew there was gonna be a strange twist.

Can you elaborate please?!

mPlasticDesign · 10-15-2011, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikewills

I knew there was gonna be a strange twist.

Everyone agrees and for the love of everything decent, DO NOT ELABORATE!!!

ayao · 10-15-2011, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikewills

I knew there was gonna be a strange twist.

I feel like I did when I found out Vader was Luke's father...but just more confused.

GoingTooFast · 10-15-2011, 11:06 PM

I don't know what you failed to understand... but let me try to explain without twist your minds:

If I wanted a track car from BMW I would have gone for the M3... it's a better track car than the 1M for all the reasons outlined above and despite all the journalism hype surrounding the 1M - no doubt about that!

Since I just want a dd fun car like no other... I'm going after the 1M.

GoingTooFast · 10-15-2011, 11:25 PM

Oh, btw... the price is not a factor since you can have an used M3 for less than you will spend in a new 1M these days.

It all depends on what you value most in a car.

b33g33 · 10-16-2011, 07:46 AM

GoingTooFast · 10-16-2011, 08:21 AM

Question: Do you like normally aspirated better than turbo?

He could have been talking about the M3 vs the 1M... with Walter Röhrl's explanation you clearly understand some of the very important reasons, from a confidence point of view, which lead Autocar to give only 8th place overall to the 1M in this year Britain's Best Driver's Car competition and why the M3 is definitely a better track car than the 1M.

Answer: Yes and no!

If I have to use a car on the open roads I would prefer a turbo.

But if I have to go on a racetrack I prefer normally aspirated. Because, especially if it's raining it's much more precise with the throttle, you can really make very exact things.

[With a turbo ] you just push it and nothing happens. The car has a little bit of understeer, you push it a little bit more and suddenly the power is coming and 'poof'.

With a normally aspirated, it is so nice, every touch influence what the car is doing.

Only problem is... if you go in the normal traffic like in Germany, like now, I want to overtake this one... I have to shift back with this one.

With the turbo you just... 'fssh'! Like this. You know, in a high gear it's very easy.

GoingTooFast · 10-17-2011, 09:44 AM

Quote:

[With a turbo ] you just push it and nothing happens. The car has a little bit of understeer, you push it a little bit more and suddenly the power is coming and 'poof'.

With a normally aspirated, it is so nice, every touch influence what the car is doing.

I just want to add to these Walter Röhrl's words, Andre de Vries (aka Advevo) own words about the 1M:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Advevo

Because it s a turbo i mostly have 5% throttle before i start the drift so turbo lag is at a minimum. The most dangerous part is to start the drift. Especially with turbo with high NM. You end up going into a dougnut faster then a drift

You need to react fast with the steeringwheel when the power comes in. The rear diff is going to lock and the back will let go very hard. You need to react fast. Then you ease off throttle a little bit and steer the car with throttle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Advevo

(...) 40% lock lsd is easier to drift then a BMW 0 to 100% lock diff.

Also, interestingly enough, is the fact that while Andre drives his 1Ms with the M button pressed (and DSC off - of course!

) in order to get the immediate benefit of reducing the inherent turbo lag in the 1M to the minimum (with the above mentioned 5% throttle) because it's so critical for an effective throttle response at the limits, the majority of the other users here are finding the throttle with the M button pressed very hard to modulate, thus preferring to play in the safe side by not turning the DSC completely OFF. And, when they do turn the DSC completely OFF they don't drive with the M button pressed, thus they deliberately increase the turbo-lag to get a 'soft' throttle response which in a track environnement is counterproductive as explained above. The sole benefit of doing so is that at the same time the turbo-lag is increased it is compensated by decreasing the available torque which results in a tamed behaviour when it reaches the rear wheels.

Now you have a more complete picture of why exploring the 1M for its full potential is not for everyone, which raises the relevant question of the necessary confidence levels as Autocar so well has put it.

So if you want mainly a track car from BMW buy the current M3.

If you just want major dd fun at sensible speeds buy the 1M as long as you know or want to know what you are doing!

mPlasticDesign · 10-17-2011, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

I own a Cayman....
Do I just love that?!

"Technically brilliant.....But, NO sense of passion"

http://youtu.be/riGejPAqNVw

Name: caymanS.JPG
Views: 350
Size: 42.3 KB

ayao · 10-17-2011, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Metak2you

"Technically brilliant.....But, NO sense of passion"

This won't end well.

GoingTooFast · 10-17-2011, 11:30 AM

You cannot say the same about the Cayman R though, even if it doesn't have the right engine.

Technically brilliant here means the chassis is so good that can take the 997.2 GT3 engine (3.8L) without any problem at all in order to have all the passion it deserves.

However, Porsche will not allow that... they don't want to kill the 911 hype. A ~400hp Cayman would kill an equal powered 911 in any track, any day.

As a daily drive though... it's very hard to beat a good front engined rwd car like the 1M for fun!

10-15-2011, 11:20 AM	#67
MrRoboto Brigadier General 1846 Rep 4,836 Posts Drives: VO 1M Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Canada iTrader: (0)	Take these reviews with a grain of salt. These guys test these cars for a few hours over a weekend in controlled conditions. If you want to know how the 1M is as a drivers car ask one of us who live with it daily on and off track and have experience with other cars to compare. (real world cars, not $200k McLaren's) Also don't pay too much attention to those on the forum who haven't even seen a 1M in person let alone drive on but choose to make judgements on the cars abilities based on a magazine.
	Appreciate 0

10-15-2011, 12:17 PM	#70
Fundahl Captain 8 Rep 704 Posts Drives: VO 1M, 300zx TT Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Corpus Christi, Texas iTrader: (0)	Lol they wanna hear drone? They need a ride in my Z. It's two open muffler-less 3" pipes coming off of two gt28r's. God i love the music of a high performance internal combustion engine...... I think the max factory camber if you move the struts over and remove some alignment pins is around -1.7°. I could be wrong, i haven't done it myself yet so dont take my word on that.
	Appreciate 0

10-15-2011, 12:18 PM	#71
MrRoboto Brigadier General 1846 Rep 4,836 Posts Drives: VO 1M Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Canada iTrader: (0)	http://www.**************.com/intern...udi-tt-rs.html
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10-15-2011, 03:37 PM	#72
GoingTooFast Banned 89 Rep 1,247 Posts Drives: fat cars are still boats Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: compensating a fat car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up. iTrader: (0)	Those of us who drove the 1M know that what EVO says about the 1M on the track is the typical journalism hype that I'm complaining about and cannot stand anymore. And the best proof of that is the urgency with which alot of the 1M owners in this board are modding their cars in order to have the necessary confidence to be fast in the track... and I dare to say as fast as they were in the M3. Don't trust in everything you read from car journalists, not even from EVO:
	Appreciate 0

10-15-2011, 09:15 PM	#75
mikewills Captain 66 Rep 971 Posts Drives: Ducati Hypermotard Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: DMV iTrader: (2) Garage List 2008 Duc 848 [0.00]	I knew there was gonna be a strange twist. __________________ BMWCCA #454364
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10-15-2011, 09:33 PM	#76
BlitzM Enlisted Member 5 Rep 34 Posts Drives: 2011 AW 1M Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Colorado iTrader: (0)	Yes, a strange twist indeed. I'm scratching my head but think I will let this thread rest.
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10-15-2011, 09:39 PM	#77
bdaddylo Major 168 Rep 1,479 Posts Drives: 2017 F80 M3 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Houston, TX iTrader: (3) Garage List 2011 BMW E90 M3 [10.00] 2005 Acura MDX [0.00] 2011 BMW 1 Series M ... [10.00]	__________________ _______________________ 1991 E30 M3/Brilliantrot 2017 F80 M3/AW
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10-15-2011, 11:06 PM	#81
GoingTooFast Banned 89 Rep 1,247 Posts Drives: fat cars are still boats Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: compensating a fat car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up. iTrader: (0)	I don't know what you failed to understand... but let me try to explain without twist your minds: If I wanted a track car from BMW I would have gone for the M3... it's a better track car than the 1M for all the reasons outlined above and despite all the journalism hype surrounding the 1M - no doubt about that! Since I just want a dd fun car like no other... I'm going after the 1M.
	Appreciate 0

10-15-2011, 11:25 PM	#82
GoingTooFast Banned 89 Rep 1,247 Posts Drives: fat cars are still boats Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: compensating a fat car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up. iTrader: (0)	Oh, btw... the price is not a factor since you can have an used M3 for less than you will spend in a new 1M these days. It all depends on what you value most in a car.
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10-16-2011, 07:46 AM	#83
b33g33 Give '///M' Hell! 125 Rep 1,325 Posts Drives: Einser Rex Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Atlanta, GA iTrader: (0)	__________________ The 1 series M is the most badass, coolest, sickest BMW to debut since the 1988 M3. The E30 M3 finally has a successor. Please welcome the stupidly fast, wickedly tempered, awkwardly named, possibly perfect little son of a benchmark - Automobile Magazine, August 2011
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10-16-2011, 08:21 AM	#84
GoingTooFast Banned 89 Rep 1,247 Posts Drives: fat cars are still boats Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: compensating a fat car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up. iTrader: (0)	Question: Do you like normally aspirated better than turbo? He could have been talking about the M3 vs the 1M... with Walter Röhrl's explanation you clearly understand some of the very important reasons, from a confidence point of view, which lead Autocar to give only 8th place overall to the 1M in this year Britain's Best Driver's Car competition and why the M3 is definitely a better track car than the 1M. Answer: Yes and no! If I have to use a car on the open roads I would prefer a turbo. But if I have to go on a racetrack I prefer normally aspirated. Because, especially if it's raining it's much more precise with the throttle, you can really make very exact things. [With a turbo ] you just push it and nothing happens. The car has a little bit of understeer, you push it a little bit more and suddenly the power is coming and 'poof'. With a normally aspirated, it is so nice, every touch influence what the car is doing. Only problem is... if you go in the normal traffic like in Germany, like now, I want to overtake this one... I have to shift back with this one. With the turbo you just... 'fssh'! Like this. You know, in a high gear it's very easy.
	Appreciate 0

10-17-2011, 11:30 AM	#88
GoingTooFast Banned 89 Rep 1,247 Posts Drives: fat cars are still boats Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: compensating a fat car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up. iTrader: (0)	You cannot say the same about the Cayman R though, even if it doesn't have the right engine. Technically brilliant here means the chassis is so good that can take the 997.2 GT3 engine (3.8L) without any problem at all in order to have all the passion it deserves. However, Porsche will not allow that... they don't want to kill the 911 hype. A ~400hp Cayman would kill an equal powered 911 in any track, any day. As a daily drive though... it's very hard to beat a good front engined rwd car like the 1M for fun!
	Appreciate 0