The brake pad thread

[_Ryan_]

This seems to come up every few days, lets capture the options and a review if possible. Let's assume 135i or BMWP kit.

Options

Street
Stoptech Street Performance
Pagid S
Hawk HPS
EBC Red

Hybrid
Ferodo
- DS2500
Project Mu
- HC+ (135ii F: Z328, R:Z425)
EBC Yellow

Weekend/club level motorsport
Endless
- ME20
- MX72
Pagid
- RS29
Performance Friction (PFC)
- 08
Project Mu
- Clubracer
Hawk
- DTC range


Reviews

Pad: Stoptech Street Performance
Suggested use: Street only
Actual use: Street, track(HPDE/club)
Dust: Less than OEM
Rating for actual use: Recommended. Great street pad, good feel, can handle a spirited drive; not suitable for track use.
Notes: Stoptech say not to track these pads, they were right.
Reviewer: _Ryan_

Pad: Hawk HPS
Suggested use: Street
Actual use: Street
Dust: Less than OEM
Rating for actual use: Somewhat positive
Notes: Noise, average feel, http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...50&postcount=6
Reviewer: 135Pats

Pad: EBC Reds
Suggested use: Street
Actual use: Street
Dust: Less than OEM
Rating for actual use: Recommend.
Notes: Good initial bite and progressive grip, definitely "confidence inspiring". http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...9&postcount=18
Reviewer: JohnnyG_TO

Pad: EBC Yellow
Suggested use: Street, track (Hybrid)
Actual use: 90% street 10% track
Dust: Same as OEM
Rating for actual use: Cold: OK, HPDE- good on PSS, noisy.
Notes: http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...8&postcount=25
Reviewer: FactorX81

Pad: EBC Yellowstuff
Suggested use: Street and Track
Actual use: 90% street / 10% track
Dust: Comparable to OEM, but lighter in color
Rating for actual use: Excellent dual purpose pad, excellent step up from OEM
Notes: A bit harder on rotors than most street pads, but does well holding up at the track if you're not super fast/or running too much tire. It's a good match for street tire levels of stick. Used these pads for two track days on 225/255 staggered Dunlop Star Specs, and it was a good balance between brake strength and tire grip. As noted before, now that I've progressed in pace, I feel like I could overwhelm these pads when really pushing, but nice and safe for the beginner to intermediate HPDE driver. Pretty quiet as well. Has decent "cold" manners, one or two slow speed stops (i.e. leaving the neighborhood) is enough to get the pad in it's happy spot.
Reviewer: Ginger_Extract


Pad: Project Mu HC+
Suggested use: Street, track, http://www.project-mu.co.jp/en/products/pad_hcplus.html
Actual use: Street, tarmac sprint courses, not yet track
Dust: Less than OEM
Rating for actual use: Meets or exceeds all other pads I've owned.
Notes: Very agressive initial bite which doesn't let up, also very loud. I'm running AD08R and question is lesser tyres would handle the bite. Annoyingly noisy in daily (traffic) driving.
Reviewer: _Ryan_

Pad: Endless MX72
Suggested use: Street and track
Actual use: Street, track
Dust: More than OEM
Rating for actual use: Good on track, good on street, cold bite not as good.
Notes: http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...3&postcount=27
Reviewer: Fidiman

Pad: PFC08
Suggested use: Track
Actual use: Street, track
Dust: Yes
Rating for actual use: Strong positive.
Notes: full post http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...29&postcount=3
Reviewer: 135TX
Other mentions:
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...0&postcount=19
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...8&postcount=22 (detailed post, track review)
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...1&postcount=26 (track review)

Pad: PFC08 (front & rear)
Fluid: Motul RBF 600
Suggested use: Track only
Actual use: Street, track(HPDE)
Dust: I'd say middle of the road
Rating for actual use: Excellent
Track Review - Mid Ohio Full Course (no chicane)
Notes: First time using these pads but based on the recommendations here it was money well spent. As a note I didn't have shims so I was getting pad clunk when going in reverse/forward while braking. Not a big deal, I'll get some shims to fix it.

Break-in/bedding procedure was about 10-15 hard stops at various speeds starting at 40mph up to 70mph. I did about 5 stops at a time with a cool down. Each time the pedal got firmer and brakes were working better. By the end they were smoking/burning off the grime and I had really good feel. As I figured, they got even better after a full cool down.

If anyone is interested I'm using Centric premium high-carbon rotors (Stop Tech blanks) and they held up perfect.

I put about 200+ miles on them at the track with little issues. They took about 2 full laps to get to temp (quite noisy before full temp) but after that they were very consistent. Overall feel was quite good and easy to modulate. Pads once warm provided medium/high bite with minimal pedal effort in the short braking areas with excellent consistency lap after lap. Hard braking zones were almost as consistent with a couple fading issues. Back straight I was seeing between 135-140mph coming into a hard braking zone and I noticed a little fade over the next couple turns but quickly went away. This was only after about 20 minutes of hard lapping that I started to see fade, but as I noted it quickly went away.

Pads and rotors showed minimal wearing, better than expected. I'm sure I have several more events before these are ready to replace.
I give these pads a high rating because they were not only excellent on track but also the 500 miles to and from. They're quite quiet for a dedicated track pad and really didn't make a lot of noise on the trip. I am switching out these pads and rotors for my stock~ish setup (OEM rotors and Stop Tech Pads) to save them for track only days. Unfortunately my lapping season is done for this year but it was a great end to the season.
Reviewer: E82MSport[/QUOTE]

Pad: Hawk DTC70 (F), DTC60 (R)
Suggested use: Track, limited street use
Actual use: 80% track, 20% street
Dust: Terrible, a lot of it, requires strong scrubbing/wheel cleaner to clean wheels. Dust will also cover fenders, but cleans off easily enough.
Rating for actual use: Excellent on track, will not fade. Suck on the street and at autocross.
Notes: Right up front, the DTC70 are too much front pad for my car's level of tire grip, 255 square Hankook RS3. DTC60 front and rear would be much better. Easily manageable on track, but terrible at Autocross, will cause front tires to lock up frequently on less than perfect surfaces. As noted above, the brake dust is brutal, invest in a quality wheel cleaner product. I have gone through 1.5 sets of front pads, and halfway through the original rears. They last about 6-9 track days depending on the track and level of street driving they see. They will never fade, no matter how hardcore you get out there. Speaking of street use, they are AWFUL on the street. They make a constant cyclical "whirring" noise when cold, which is all the time on the street. When actually stopping they are sometimes silent, sometimes noisy, hit or miss. Takes one or two really good stops to have a decent brake pedal, with the first stop of the day being a bit nerve-wracking if you don't allow some extra braking distance. Wear on thwe street is poor as well, they will wear out faster with street driving than they would with 100% track driving. Hard on rotors, lots of rotor cracking, but rotors are cheap, and my original set that I paired with the first set are still hanging in there (just). I got a bunch of these pads for cheap, so I'll be sticking with them for a bit. Next go around, will either use DTC60 up front, or move to a different brand/compound completely for the sake of experimentation. If you use slicks or R-comps, these are the pads for you.
Reviewer: Ginger_Extract

If you can list some pads and provide experience, I'll update the first post/s. Even better if you use the template below so I can copy and paste with the correct formatting!

Pad:
Suggested use:
Actual use:
Dust:
Rating for actual use:
Notes:
Reviewer:

[_Ryan_]

Reserved

[135TX]

Thank you sir, As we build more reviews I'd suggest this get stickied

Also reserved for my thoughts on PFC 08, waiting on them to ship..

UPDTATE 8/20/15:

PFC08: So Ive done about 10 track days and all daily driving from april to now and I have to say the pads are phenomenal (appx 5Kmiles)

Unfortunately they are very noisy and very dusty

Absolutely can handle anything thrown at them at the track. These stop great when cold and even better as they heat up, i out brake my tires fairly easily if i hammer from 100+ into a ~20 mph turn.

They still have pretty good life left, i intend to swap back to stock ones this weekend as I have ~3 months till my next track day and want to preserve them as much as I can for then. When I do ill report back how much material I have left on them.

My next set I think will be Ferodo DS2500 just to try something different but i would suggest anyone who wants a street capable track pad that they try these out.

Again sounds like a freight train or school bus on the street, and very dirty but well worth swapping or living with if you actually use your brakes on the track!

[_Ryan_]

I was searching for reviews and came across this thread via- http://boardreader.com/thread/The_br...t9mzXnm8k.html

Any new reviews to share?

[_Ryan_]

Originally Posted by 135TX

Thank you sir, As we build more reviews I'd suggest this get stickied

Also reserved for my thoughts on PFC 08, waiting on them to ship..

Verdict?

[135Pats]

Pad: Hawk HPS

Suggested use: Street only

Actual use: Street only

Dust: Substantially less than OEM

Rating for actual use: A decent pad for street use and/or daily driving. Good feel when cold though a bit dull and soft in initial pedal travel; not much in the way of fade on 'spirited' back road driving. Highly doubtful they would be suitable for track use.

Notes: A good but certainly not great pad that will hold up just fine for street use. It puts the clamps on my 610WHP car without much fuss. Both these and the previous Cool Carbons squeal like mad when you are approaching a stop or getting on the brakes hard. I have cleaned the pads numerous times, re-applied brake paste several times, etc...Nothing seems to remedy it. The volume of noise is close to unacceptable for a street car, it's shrill and loud. I have not had the need to do a full bore stop since bedding these pads in.

[lowbudgethero]

I hear that the ti shims with grease will get rid of squeaking, but never tried it myself

[2PUTT]

Originally Posted by 135Pats

Notes: A good but certainly not great pad that will hold up just fine for street use. It puts the clamps on my 610WHP car without much fuss. Both these and the previous Cool Carbons squeal like mad when you are approaching a stop or getting on the brakes hard. I have cleaned the pads numerous times, re-applied brake paste several times, etc...Nothing seems to remedy it. The volume of noise is close to unacceptable for a street car, it's shrill and loud. I have not had the need to do a full bore stop since bedding these pads in.

Does the noise disappear when the pads are warm/hot? I'm not familiar with Cool Carbon. I do have lots of experience with Pagid, BHP, and Porterfield track pads. Aggressive pads will always have noise especially when cold (sounds like a public transit bus). They tend to be less noisy when they reach their ideal temps.

[135Pats]

Originally Posted by 2PUTT

Does the noise disappear when the pads are warm/hot? I'm not familiar with Cool Carbon. I do have lots of experience with Pagid, BHP, and Porterfield track pads. Aggressive pads will always have noise especially when cold (sounds like a public transit bus). They tend to be less noisy when they reach their ideal temps.

Define "hot". In the course of what I would consider normal operation for a street pad, they emit a shrill and extremely loud squeal. Depending on how much clamping force you apply, the pitch changes distinctly.

They do appear to get a bit better once warm but even then, the squeal is there and very noticeable. IMO this isn't all that aggressive a pad and should not squeal like that in normal use. It's frustrating.

[2PUTT]

Originally Posted by 135Pats

Define "hot". In the course of what I would consider normal operation for a street pad, they emit a shrill and extremely loud squeal. Depending on how much clamping force you apply, the pitch changes distinctly.

They do appear to get a bit better once warm but even then, the squeal is there and very noticeable. IMO this isn't all that aggressive a pad and should not squeal like that in normal use. It's frustrating.

this is weird since ECS describes the Cool Carbon pads to be "low to no noise...".

one thing you can probably try is to get rid of the material that is on the rotors by bedding them with a more aggressive pad then switching back.

Zeckhausen can probably help you out.

[ulrichd]

The Cool Carbons on my 09 128 have never made any noise. They have a very detailed bedding-in procedure that needs to be followed after install:

a) Perform a series of 10 to 15 partial stops from 65 mph to 10 mph (preferred) with the first 3 under moderate braking, increasing to 75% to 90% of full braking during the series of stops. (Please ensure compliance with all applicable laws and ordinances.)
b) Performance should increase somewhat during this process and fall off toward the end of this cycle.
c) Do not come to a complete stop during this cycle, if at all possible, as this may interrupt the material transfer process to the rotor surface; Note: material transfer process will take longer with new rotors.
d) If friction smell becomes excessive during this first series of stops, become less aggressive with braking and complete the test sequence. Excessive braking at this stage can cause the resins to be released from the friction material leading to Green fade and coating of the rotor surfaces with excessive amounts of resin, which is undesirable, rather than a proper mix of friction material.
e) Allow the brakes to cool by driving at higher allowable speeds and with little if any braking, if possible.

Part 2
a) Repeat the above sequence, including the cooling section
b) Generally 2 complete sequences is often sufficient
c) A 3rd sequence may be performed if deemed necessary.
d) Allow brakes to cool, as per above, before coming to a complete stop or parking the vehicle

[tjswarbrick]

Thanks!
Bought my car last week. Service light came on as I started it up to pull out of dealer lot
Front Brake Pads.

Can anyone offer comparisons/thoughts on EBC RedStuff or Cool Carbon S/T to Pagid S for sprited street use?

Turns out my (OEM) pads are nearly new and it's a sensor that went out! WooHoo!
No brakes needed just yet.
Gives me more time to figure out of I should go StopTech, CoolCarbon, Pagid or Ferodo.

[tjswarbrick]

Doubletap!

[dojk]

Any reviews of the new Hawk Street Performance and 5.0 Street Performance pads?

[2PUTT]

Originally Posted by dojk

Any reviews of the new Hawk Street Performance and 5.0 Street Performance pads?

from my experience as well as my friends, the quality of Hawk pads have gone downhill. i've steered clear from them for the past 5 years. for the money and for street use, i suggest the StopTech Street Performance. you can get them really cheap at rockauto.com ($71 for the front pads - MSRP is $119).

[lowbudgethero]

Originally Posted by 2PUTT

from my experience as well as my friends, the quality of Hawk pads have gone downhill. i've steered clear from them for the past 5 years. for the money and for street use, i suggest the StopTech Street Performance. you can get them really cheap at rockauto.com ($71 for the front pads - MSRP is $119).

This is what happened the last set of pads I will ever buy from hawk , noticed weird braking noise and performance. Found out the friction material delaminated from the backing plate.

[E82MSport]

Originally Posted by 2PUTT

from my experience as well as my friends, the quality of Hawk pads have gone downhill. i've steered clear from them for the past 5 years. for the money and for street use, i suggest the StopTech Street Performance. you can get them really cheap at rockauto.com ($71 for the front pads - MSRP is $119).

That price has to be the lowest I've seen yet. I think I paid double for a set of fronts a while back. Basically a full set (front and rear) for the price I paid for the fronts only.

[JohnnyG_TO]

Pad: EBC Redstuff
Suggested use: Street only
Actual use: Street
Dust: MUCH less than OEM
Rating for actual use: Recommended. Good initial bite and progressive grip, definitely "confidence inspiring".

[joeo]

Very happy with the PFC08 pads for track use. Compared to Hawk DTC60s and DTC70s they don't have as much initial bite as those pads, but still much, much easier to achieve full braking than stock pads. The biggest reason for me using these pads is longevity. They really last a lot longer - about 8 track days vs 2.

-Joe

[drewster99]

I've had good luck with EBC Redstuff in the past. Just to make sure, are these the correct pads for front and rear on a 135i? I have the sport package if that matters.

http://www.amazon.com/EBC-Brakes-DP3.../dp/B0027ZZRGI

http://www.amazon.com/EBC-Brakes-DP3...xgy_263_text_y

[drewster99]

I've had good luck with EBC Redstuff in the past. Just to make sure, are these the correct pads for front and rear on a 135i? I have the sport package if that matters.

http://www.amazon.com/EBC-Brakes-DP3.../dp/B0027ZZRGI

http://www.amazon.com/EBC-Brakes-DP3...xgy_263_text_y

[dcaron9999]

The thing with brake pad reviews and opinions is that they will be skewed. Everybody uses brakes differently, whether on the street or on the track.

Consider this: the power that your stock versus tuned engine makes. The grip of the tires you use, the layout of the track you drive on most often (long stretches will cool your brakes better between hard braking zones). Do you drag your brakes (beginner to intermediate level driver), or use them hard and quickly (advanced drivers)? Do you cool down your brakes after each lapping session (no use of the brake pedal on the last lap before returning to pitlane)? What percentage of your driving is done on the street versus the track. Do you swap your pads and rotors between events?

These will all have an effect on brake bite, brake fade, brake pad longevity, and even brake noise to a certain extent.

Im still on stock 135i calipers, and pistons, after 3 years of lapping. The dust boots have crumbled away, the front calipers have changed color (from gray to golden gray), the top of the center caliper pistons have started chipping.

Ive been using Ti heat shields for a couple of lapping seasons (helped prevent fluid boiling but kept more heat in the pads, expediting brake fade), and F30 dust shields (useless), and now now custom 2" brake ducting connecting stock bumper ducts to stock brake dust shields (these help the most in preventing fade).

Ive consumed a lot of pads in this order: OEM, Cool Carbons, Carbotech XP10, PFC 08, and currently on Project Mu Club Racer pads.

My dual duty 135i sees 75% track and 25% street use.

OEM pads did not last long. Cool Carbons were a disaster at the track, even with minimal engine power mods and 225/255 F/R Extreme Performace tires and stock 18x7.5 + 18x8.5 wheels. The pads crumbled after one day at the track, and left deposits on the rotor when they got hot, resulting in a pulsating brake pedal.

Carbotech XP10 pads resisted a little longer, but faded before the end of my 20-minute lapping sessions. They were noisy on the street.

PFC-08 pads were the best dual duty, lasted long, and rarely produced a shriek on the street. They faded at the track, as I increased the engine power, blocked air (wider wheel in the front), and increased tire grip on my 135i (255/35R18 square setup).

The PMU Club Racer pads are holding up surprisingly well. They are frequently noisy on the street however (once the pad layer wears off the rotor due to abrasion from cold pads). The PMU CR pads resist farely well to heat extremes I expose them to.

To conclude, its a good idea to buy brake pads relative to the heat ranges you will expose the pads to. Look at the temp specs for your pads if you intend on visiting the track often, and you drive agressively. Better yet, work on directing fresh air to the center of your brake rotors.

If you only drive on the street, with no or very seldom visits to the track, Ryan (OP) has provided a couple of good "hybrid" pad candidates. I would tend to recommend the PFC 08 pads, as the best all-rounder ... Love these pads, but they do not hold up to my useage pattern at the track (tuned car, wider wheels+tires up front, tracks with several slow speed turns).