Camber Out - Too Much Positive

[Tommm]

I installed the 135 springs and Koni Sport shocks in my 08 128 back in November. At the same time I had the winter tires mounted, and had Brakes Plus align the car.

The driver's side camber was out of spec 1/10th of a degree positive. I track the car a few times a year, and the left front gets the most wear at High Plains Raceway.

The Hunter machine instructed the tech to knock out the alignment pin on the top mount in order to move the strut inward. after he took few whacks we agreed to leave it out of spec the 1/10th.

Spring is in the air, and I will get another alignment soon. Short of taking everything apart (thought of compressing springs ) and installing camber plates, is there a way to add some negative camber from below? Car hasn't been hit, so I am assuming it left the factory out of spec.

I read the posts about the Dinan fixed plates. It is a daily driver that does a 100 mile round trip highway run regularly, and I am not sure I want a lot of negative camber for the street tires.

Thanks

[OkieSnuffBox]

I'd suspect something is bent if you're seeing positive camber.

Toe will wear the tires more than camber will.

[Tommm]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

I'd suspect something is bent if you're seeing positive camber.

Toe will wear the tires more than camber will.

1/10th of 1deg. out of spec (that's 1 second in an hour). An argument can be made that he mounted the piece to the wheel a fraction off. Or that something wasnt settled after i installed the Konis.

Now that i drove it a few thousand, and i track it occasionally, i want to get a little more negative. If I remove the struts and pop out the alignment tab, how much neg camber can i get? Is it worth doing that without adding the dinan plates, or installing adjustable plates?

[MightyMouseTech]

Even if it is within factory spec, it is woefully inadequate for any kind of track use, hell, it is not even good for street use. I would seriously consider getting the Dinan plates. About the same amount of work as dropping the front struts to cut off the alignment pin.

[Tommm]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

Even if it is within factory spec, it is woefully inadequate for any kind of track use, hell, it is not even good for street use. I would seriously consider getting the Dinan plates. About the same amount of work as dropping the front struts to cut off the alignment pin.

They look easy enough to install since it looks like I dont have to compress the spring. How much range will i have without the pin? do i have to compress the spring?

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by Tommm

They look easy enough to install since there is no need to compress the spring. How much range will i have without the pin?

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...nt+pin+removal

Looks like about 0.5 deg.

[Ginger_Extract]

You don't need to drop the struts to remove the alignment dowel. Take a chisel, or flathead screwdriver and a hammer and whack the pin from the side and it'll pop out.

Removing the pins and using the factory adjustment with get you to -0.3* to -0.4* max up front.

[Tommm]

So if i whack the pin i will get .3 to .5, if i install the dinan i will get max .7? that means the dinan adds max .4 min .2 deg?

Is the only adjustment from the top?

Also, thanks!

[bbnks2]

Originally Posted by Tommm

So if i whack the pin i will get .3 to .5, if i install the dinan i will get max .7? that means the dinan adds max .4 min .2 deg?

Is the only adjustment from the top?

Also, thanks!

With dinan plates and the alignment pin popped out I got -1.7*. Some people report being able to go -2.0* but that would probably require lowering.

I think with just the alignment pins removed I was at around -1.2-1.3*. Dinan fixed plates are supposed to be good for -.7*.

If you have an alignment problem then fixed plates will not do anything for you to correct the imbalance. You would need adjustable plates in order to get the side to side camber even (which is more important than having more negative camber). Ideally you would fix whatever is bent. 1/10 of a degree positive camber might seem ok because it's still in the green, but it is not normal and chances are the other wheel is at close to -.5* like it should be. That creates a pull when camber is off from side to side...

[Tommm]

Originally Posted by bbnks2

With dinan plates and the alignment pin popped out I got -1.7*. Some people report being able to go -2.0* but that would probably require lowering.

I think with just the alignment pins removed I was at around -1.2-1.3*. Dinan fixed plates are supposed to be good for -.7*.

If you have an alignment problem then fixed plates will not do anything for you to correct the imbalance. You would need adjustable plates in order to get the side to side camber even (which is more important than having more negative camber). Ideally you would fix whatever is bent. 1/10 of a degree positive camber might seem ok because it's still in the green, but it is not normal and chances are the other wheel is at close to -.5* like it should be. That creates a pull when camber is off from side to side...

it is 1/10th of one degree out of spec range in the positive side. If I install the dinan plates i will go negative and without the pins i am thinking i will have a little bit of range to match the other side.

the alignment was done about 8 miles after I installed the Konis and new bushings.

[FLATBMW]

What about slotting the strut towers?

[Tommm]

How well does it stay set with the slotted towers?

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by Tommm

1/10th of 1deg. out of spec (that's 1 second in an hour). An argument can be made that he mounted the piece to the wheel a fraction off. Or that something wasnt settled after i installed the Konis.

Now that i drove it a few thousand, and i track it occasionally, i want to get a little more negative. If I remove the struts and pop out the alignment tab, how much neg camber can i get? Is it worth doing that without adding the dinan plates, or installing adjustable plates?

Gotcha, I misread. If you're tracking, I'd just buy a set of adjustable plates and call it good.

Originally Posted by FLATBMW

What about slotting the strut towers?

Is this a Honda/VW forum now?

[Tommm]

Track is maybe a half dozen days a year and I may use the 944S for a few of them. Its also the other 15k a year i have to deal with.

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by Tommm

Track is maybe a half dozen days a year and I may use the 944S for a few of them. Its also the other 15k a year i have to deal with.

I run about -2.0 in the front for my daily driver. Tire wear is not an issue and it handles a hell of a lot better. I have the Dinan plates and M3 front arms.

[Tommm]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

I run about -2.0 in the front for my daily driver. Tire wear is not an issue and it handles a hell of a lot better. I have the Dinan plates and M3 front arms.

That puts the cork in the bottle. if i add the dinan or turner plates that look the same as the dinan plates, i go somewhere under/closer to -1.7 or -2.0, and dont kill the tires.

I think i had -2.0 on my E36 M3 with PSS9s.

Any difference between the Turnor and Dinan plates besides $18?

Now i have to figure out what to do with the rear. I have Koni Sports, and will add the whiteline inserts when the weather gets better. I put the 16" winter tires on the day i installed the Konis.

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by Tommm

That puts the cork in the bottle. if i add the dinan or turner plates that look the same as the dinan plates, i go somewhere under/closer to -1.7 or -2.0, and dont kill the tires.

I think i had -2.0 on my E36 M3 with PSS9s.

Any difference between the Turnor and Dinan plates besides $18?

Now i have to figure out what to do with the rear. I have Koni Sports, and will add the whiteline inserts when the weather gets better. I put the 16" winter tires on the day i installed the Konis.

I don't think Turner offers a fixed plate for our cars. I could not find it on their website?

[Tommm]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

I don't think Turner offers a fixed plate for our cars. I could not find it on their website?

ill find it. swear i saw it yesterday, Just checked my browsers history. I got a link, but i didnt check to see it fits our car. my bad. You are correct. I got a coupon for 8% eBay bucks. used that and saved twelve bucks on the Dinan plates. Cant wait to pull the struts again!

[FLATBMW]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

Gotcha, I misread. If you're tracking, I'd just buy a set of adjustable plates and call it good.

Is this a Honda/VW forum now?

Besides it being "ricey" and their being better more expensive options like adjustable camber plates if done properly whats wrong with slotting? Is it because BMW strut towers are NOTORIOUSLY weak?

I find what this dude says to be interesting while discussing slotting strut towers...

-ajsalida
By "street based" here I meant dedicated track-only cars in racing classes that are required to be based on street cars. Like Improved Touring classes in SCCA. These are full-on race cars with full cages, gutted interiors, etc. that started life as street cars. It's been a while but back when I knew this stuff IT cars could do minor suspension (coilovers + sway bars) and external engine mods (headers etc.), welded diffs, but were supposed to be "affordable" racing.

Point is the shit got beat out of these cars on race tracks day in day out and none broke due to slotting strut towers, which was SCCA legal.

Now would I do this to my 335i xDrive coupe? No, as I don't need any more camber (yet) and if I wanted a track car it sure wouldn't be this one. Too heavy, too luxo, too sedate. This car is my mid-life snowboarder guy mountain car.

But it is a legit and well understood mod for people who want low-budget camber for whatever reason.

[OkieSnuffBox]

^Oh I get it, same way people use "crash bolts" and such. I'm just a fan of spending the extra $$$ and doing it properly.

Like when I built my Miata track car, every bolt that came off the 20+ year old suspension was all replaced with new, new bushings in all 8 control arms, new eccentrics, etc.

[Tommm]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

^Oh I get it, same way people use "crash bolts" and such. I'm just a fan of spending the extra $$$ and doing it properly.

Like when I built my Miata track car, every bolt that came off the 20+ year old suspension was all replaced with new, new bushings in all 8 control arms, new eccentrics, etc.

What is the definition of "properly"? To get my car into factory spec, the mega expensive Hunter machine printed out instructions that said knock out the alignment pin on the brand new bearing. Sounds "improper" to me. What if we also slotted the tower a fraction of an inch to get it in spec? Or should I have just thrown it on a frame rack, replaced the whole left side suspension and hoped that one of those pieces tossed is the reason the suspension is out .1deg?

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by Tommm

What is the definition of "properly"? To get my car into factory spec, the mega expensive Hunter machine printed out instructions that said knock out the alignment pin on the brand new bearing. Sounds "improper" to me. What if we also slotted the tower a fraction of an inch to get it in spec? Or should I have just thrown it on a frame rack, replaced the whole left side suspension and hoped that one of those pieces tossed is the reason the suspension is out .1deg?

For what you said your usage would be, to me, that would be camber plates.