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      07-02-2020, 01:55 PM   #1
chris82
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M3 Camber Link spring pad vs Non-M difference

Hi all,

Hoping you can you can help me solve a ride height issue I'm having. It varies exactly one inch side to side in the rear, driver side is higher. I just had the full M3 control arm conversion done along with brand new Koni Yellows with the HPA M3 style rears and 1 series specific Eibach lowering springs. Upper shock mounts were replaced with new parts as well. Car drives very nicely.

I jacked the car up and I noticed that the spring pads are pads for a Non-M vehicle. Should these be the M3 spring pads? The better question, will they fit Eibach lowering springs that are designed for the Non-M cars? Now the shop does good work I'm told, and they dealt with me very pleasantly so I think they probably shaved off the parts of the Non-M spring pads to make them flat, but I don't know for sure. Regardless, this is a part I'm suspicious about causing the issue. Is there anything else I should check?

Thanks all!
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      07-02-2020, 05:00 PM   #2
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M3 Camber Link spring pad vs Non-M difference

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris82 View Post
Hi all,

Hoping you can you can help me solve a ride height issue I'm having. It varies exactly one inch side to side in the rear, driver side is higher. I just had the full M3 control arm conversion done along with brand new Koni Yellows with the HPA M3 style rears and 1 series specific Eibach lowering springs. Upper shock mounts were replaced with new parts as well. Car drives very nicely.

I jacked the car up and I noticed that the spring pads are pads for a Non-M vehicle. Should these be the M3 spring pads? The better question, will they fit Eibach lowering springs that are designed for the Non-M cars? Now the shop does good work I'm told, and they dealt with me very pleasantly so I think they probably shaved off the parts of the Non-M spring pads to make them flat, but I don't know for sure. Regardless, this is a part I'm suspicious about causing the issue. Is there anything else I should check?

Thanks all!
spring pads are specifics for the 1M/M3 camber arms and you have to use it. i think that they will fit with your eibach springs except if they are race springs with flat ground ends.

By the way that doesn't explain the height difference... but 1" difference is not so excessive and may be acceptable.
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      07-02-2020, 05:27 PM   #3
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I think a 1" difference is too much honestly. I had some trouble after getting my B12 kit installed, what I ended up finding:

- Make 100% sure you're on level ground, what looks level might not actually be level! For instance in my garage, the driver side rear has an appreciably larger wheel gap than the passenger rear.

- The control arms should be torqued only after being loaded. This was a problem initially for me after the install, the bushings will "wind up" with load if the torquing is not done with the car fully off the jacks.

- The end of the spring coil wasn't lined up with the spring pad "book-end", so I suspect this was also contributing to the height difference. The shop adjusted/rotated the coil to line it up flush with the "book-end" of the pad at the same time as re-torquing the control arms
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      07-03-2020, 08:21 AM   #4
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Most people who swap to the M3 lower camber arm will be using a coilover spring that is flat on the bottom. It seems like you are using lowering springs that are intended for the stock arms, so the height will be really dependent on the spring pad and the way it fits into the M3 arm. I'd be surprised if it actually fits properly. Maybe M3 lower spring pads would fit, but you will probably find its difficult to get the correct ride height.

Last edited by John_01; 07-03-2020 at 08:26 AM..
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      07-03-2020, 08:29 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_01 View Post
Most people who swap to the M3 lower camber arm will be using a coilover spring that is flat on the bottom. It seems like you are using lowering springs that are intended for the stock arms, so the height will be really dependant on the spring pad and the way it fits into the M3 arm. I'd be surprised if it actually fits properly.
i have fitting M3 camber arms with yellow perf springs with no problem.
but you have to use the specifics M3 pads.

Now i have coilover springs type so i swapped M3 pads for some flat one.

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      07-03-2020, 09:06 AM   #6
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Thank you for the replies, really appreciate it. Looks like from what ya'll said, I need to have the shop get the M3 spring pad, and check if the control arms are torqued correctly. I think the shop might have tortured things down when the car wasn't fully settled.
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      07-03-2020, 10:17 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asbrr View Post
I think a 1" difference is too much honestly. I had some trouble after getting my B12 kit installed, what I ended up finding:

- Make 100% sure you're on level ground, what looks level might not actually be level! For instance in my garage, the driver side rear has an appreciably larger wheel gap than the passenger rear.

- The control arms should be torqued only after being loaded. This was a problem initially for me after the install, the bushings will "wind up" with load if the torquing is not done with the car fully off the jacks.

- The end of the spring coil wasn't lined up with the spring pad "book-end", so I suspect this was also contributing to the height difference. The shop adjusted/rotated the coil to line it up flush with the "book-end" of the pad at the same time as re-torquing the control arms
You are correct, 1" is too much. 10mm is the maximum allowable L/R in TIS.
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      07-03-2020, 01:09 PM   #8
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Just agreeing an inch difference side to side is huge, there's something clearly wrong.

I'd consider explaining the issue to the shop, and asking about the torquing of the arms. Maybe get them to agree to re-do that part or something. When things are loosened up see if the car goes back to how it should be. Best case they get re-torqued but properly this time and everything is fine. Maybe they'd agree to not charge if that ends up fixing it / meaning they must have messed it up?

If the parts aren't right, I'd expect the height to be off, but by about the same amount each side. If the torquing thing doesn't do it, perhaps something got installed upside down or clocked wrong (parts that are supposed to mate up, didn't)
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      07-04-2020, 07:05 AM   #9
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I just did a suspension swap so the little details that would cause this are pretty fresh in my mind.

My gut is telling me it’s something to do with the spring pad orientation. If the spring isn’t buried into the end stop appropriately or if the spring pad is placed into the control arm backwards, I’m sure there would be a considerable difference in ride height. Those can be easily diagnosed by taking the rear wheels off and looking at the assembly.
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      07-11-2020, 08:12 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tracer bullet View Post
Just agreeing an inch difference side to side is huge, there's something clearly wrong.

I'd consider explaining the issue to the shop, and asking about the torquing of the arms. Maybe get them to agree to re-do that part or something. When things are loosened up see if the car goes back to how it should be. Best case they get re-torqued but properly this time and everything is fine. Maybe they'd agree to not charge if that ends up fixing it / meaning they must have messed it up?

If the parts aren't right, I'd expect the height to be off, but by about the same amount each side. If the torquing thing doesn't do it, perhaps something got installed upside down or clocked wrong (parts that are supposed to mate up, didn't)
They said they'd like to have the car back to take a look and doesn't sound like I'd be charged I'd something was off. Unfortunately it's just too far away from where I'm at (2 hours), and I'd have to take a day off work. I'm going to bring it to my local Indy I've used for years and hopefully it's not something really expensive to fix.
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      07-11-2020, 10:41 AM   #11
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You might get the back off the ground and get under it, see if you can see anything? If you can identify an issue, maybe it would be worth the trip. If not, yeah, it becomes a time / cost question. Bummer.
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      07-11-2020, 08:31 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris82 View Post
They said they'd like to have the car back to take a look and doesn't sound like I'd be charged I'd something was off. Unfortunately it's just too far away from where I'm at (2 hours), and I'd have to take a day off work. I'm going to bring it to my local Indy I've used for years and hopefully it's not something really expensive to fix.
You should be able to tell easily if the rear lower spring pad isn't oriented / seated properly. If you have a jack get the rear wheels off and it's right there/easy to see.
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      07-13-2020, 07:10 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asbrr View Post
You should be able to tell easily if the rear lower spring pad isn't oriented / seated properly. If you have a jack get the rear wheels off and it's right there/easy to see.
True. Except I don't think its "easy to see" with your own eyes, but its possible to get a pic of it if you have a small camera with flash, or maybe phone camera.
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      07-13-2020, 10:12 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_01 View Post
True. Except I don't think its "easy to see" with your own eyes, but its possible to get a pic of it if you have a small camera with flash, or maybe phone camera.
Haha fair enough, I was probably oversimplifying. You need to orient yourself carefully and a camera (and good lighting) certainly helps
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      07-19-2020, 12:24 PM   #15
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Thank you all for your help. I ended up taking it to my local Indy I've been using for years and they found the issue and fixed the car within a few hours. The left front strut was not installed correctly; it was a quarter turn off and the alignment pin on the Koni was actually bent because of how they installed it. My indy shop straightened out the alignment pin and reinstalled the strut, the car leveled out nicely to within an eight of an inch with a driver in the car. It was no issue at all with the parts in the rear and they checked the rest of the suspension and found no other issues.

So basically the initial install was messed up and as a result I had to also get a complete alignment, whole thing ran about $500. However, I'm not too upset as I have piece of mind that everything is fine.

Really disappointed in shop that did the initial install as I was recommended to them by a friend and have read overall good reviews. I originally called the owner and he was really nice and said they'd look at it no problem. I would have returned to have them fix the issue but it's 2 hours away and that would mean taking a day off work and moving back into manhattan a few days until the car was worked on as they have a 1 day wait policy due to Covid. Would also require substantial Uber costs due to how far away they are. Basically a royal pain in the ass. I'll be calling them this week to explain what they did wrong, hopefully they can educate the mechanic that worked on it, and that's all I can hope for.
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      07-19-2020, 02:59 PM   #16
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Woot, glad it's fixed.

Funny, we were all thinking about the back and forgot that it being off in the front could totally show up in the back as well.
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      07-22-2020, 06:30 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tracer bullet View Post
Woot, glad it's fixed.

Funny, we were all thinking about the back and forgot that it being off in the front could totally show up in the back as well.

Thanks!! I originally jacked the front up too and couldn't see anything odd, it wasn't off much and didn't think it could throw off the back by that much
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      07-23-2020, 11:12 AM   #18
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Here's how she looks now!

-2.5 front camber, 12mm spacer on Apex Aero 7 wheels and 225 front, 245 rear P4S tires
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