Limp mode at the track.

[Groundpilot]

Was at the LRP yesterday with my 135i DCT, N55 engine.
Cobb stage 1+fmic. No other power mods. Oil- Mobil1 0w-40. Ran with COBB tune at the track for the first time. Was looking forward to it, because the power gain was impressive, on the street that is.
First session was great, passing every car in front of me , no problem. Oil tempr. was at 270, which is ok for my car. Second session starts, and in a few laps i feel loss of power coming out of corners, my DCT upshifts waay before red line(i always drive in manual mode, street or track), car feels sluggish, oil temp is 270. No warning signs, or anything on the dashboard. After one lap cool down, car comes back alive, but only for one lap, and it goes to limp again. Next session got even worse. I had to cut my day short, didnt want to hurt my engine or trans., but i am very disappointed right now. Never had any of this with stock power.
Anyone has similar experience? Should i detune it for track days

[Skilld1]

I have N55 DCT PPKv2 radiator upgrades, and new Cobb Stage 2+FMIC. I have tracked on hot days without issues before Cobb tune. The first time I tracked the new tune was at Spring Mountain in May, air temp 95. I /2 lap into second session yellow engine lights up...engine temp 280...I backed off a bit, but I didn't feel much loss of power, so I finished the session with moderate throttle. After 2 hr cool down and engine light gone, the third session completed with out repeat warning light. The track was high average speed but with tight turns and a pin point hairpin. I think the overheat warning did not reoccur because I was driving faster the third session, achieving better air flow, even though it was mid day...hotter than the previous session. I discovered the limit of what I can expect from my little monster, and maybe if you can drive faster, the car will perform better.
I did notice my car running warmer with the new tune.
Instead of detuning for the track, I just not going to respect the heat limits I have and avoid tracking above 90*

[justanothrone]

I had my first track weekend last month in Gingerman. I ran about 10-12 20 minutes sessions over two days without an issues.

First thing I did was detune my car from Cobb Stg 1. I knew the limiting factor would be my driving skills, not OEM 135i power. Focus on my lines and learn the track. Oil temp was able to stay sub 250 entire time but I had an upgraded Dinan oil cooler. I say invest in one, and you can keep running your Stg 1 map and no be in limp mode.

[justanothrone]

Originally Posted by Skilld1

I have N55 DCT PPKv2 radiator upgrades, and new Cobb Stage 2+FMIC. I have tracked on hot days without issues before Cobb tune. The first time I tracked th.....*

Driving at higher speed will def increase cooling of brake and engine because of increase air flow, especially at lower rpm/higher gear for the engine.

Def get an oil cooler. It was about 80* and I was driving 90% of the track between 5500-6500 rpm with only shifting to third to hit 110+ in the straightaway.

[Groundpilot]

Originally Posted by Skilld1

I have N55 DCT PPKv2 radiator upgrades, and new Cobb Stage 2+FMIC. I have tracked on hot days without issues before Cobb tune. The first time I tracked the new tune was at Spring Mountain in May, air temp 95. I /2 lap into second session yellow engine lights up...engine temp 280...I backed off a bit, but I didn't feel much loss of power, so I finished the session with moderate throttle. After 2 hr cool down and engine light gone, the third session completed with out repeat warning light. The track was high average speed but with tight turns and a pin point hairpin. I think the overheat warning did not reoccur because I was driving faster the third session, achieving better air flow, even though it was mid day...hotter than the previous session. I discovered the limit of what I can expect from my little monster, and maybe if you can drive faster, the car will perform better.
I did notice my car running warmer with the new tune.
Instead of detuning for the track, I just not going to respect the heat limits I have and avoid tracking above 90*

If i can drive faster, the car will perform better?
I dont really understand your point. My oil temp. was around 270, ambient temp. was just under 80F, and if you read my post carefully, i said that before the limp mode, i was passing every car in front of me. Usually that means fast, not slow.

[Skilld1]

I didn't mean to imply you were slow. I'm glad you were passing everyone.
I was only interested in the behavior of the car at overheating thresholds, post Cobb mod.
I am also wondering if I even have a limp mode with Cobb tune? My friends' E92 went limp two sessions 4 laps in, with no low gears and little throttle.
I'm going to look into Dinan oil cooler...thx for that!

[3002 tii]

Yes you should always run stock map for track days. There's a reason for that 40+ page thread on e90post about limp mode at the track. All the supporting cooling mods in the world won't prevent limp mode 100% of the time.

TBH, I bet the tune doesn't really help with lap times there. LRP is a tough track, really fast, no slow corners and no real hard braking zones which is why momentum cars do so well there. The main straight is so short I don't see it as a track where you're "low on power" and your car has plenty of torque coming out of the turns. To be fast at LRP, you just need bigger balls and barely touch the brakes. Do you recall what your lap time was during the first session?

Btw I will add if you want to make it as close to bulletproof as possible, stick to PPK v2, no other maps and consider adding any combination of a) extra oil cooler b) bigger radiator c) playing with water wetter mixes and d) FMIC, although this last piece is probably least of your concerns.

[dcaron9999]

This may be more related to N54 rather than N55 engines. Ive never experienced overheating or limp mode in about 1 year of lapping in all temperature ranges. I use European Formula Castrol Syntec 0w40 engine oil.

My 2011 135i is running Stage 1 agressive with no bolt ons, and a 3.46 ratio Quaife LSD. Plenty of power and torque to explore and tame.

When its hot outside, I just used a free cooling trick I picked up on this forum. I turn on the heater full blast, switch to side vents, turn off the center vents, open the windows to let the hot air shoot out. Every little bit of aid to cool water and oil temp helps. My oil temp gauge needle never passes mid point.

I hardly ever rev the engine above 6000 RPM, as almost all the available torque sits between 2000-5500 RPM on the N55 engine.

[Groundpilot]

Originally Posted by 3002 tii

Yes you should always run stock map for track days. There's a reason for that 40+ page thread on e90post about limp mode at the track. All the supporting cooling mods in the world won't prevent limp mode 100% of the time.

TBH, I bet the tune doesn't really help with lap times there. LRP is a tough track, really fast, no slow corners and no real hard braking zones which is why momentum cars do so well there. The main straight is so short I don't see it as a track where you're "low on power" and your car has plenty of torque coming out of the turns. To be fast at LRP, you just need bigger balls and barely touch the brakes. Do you recall what your lap time was during the first session?

Btw I will add if you want to make it as close to bulletproof as possible, stick to PPK v2, no other maps and consider adding any combination of a) extra oil cooler b) bigger radiator c) playing with water wetter mixes and d) FMIC, although this last piece is probably least of your concerns.

My personal best at LRP is 1.2. But that was before COBB tune. First session time with tune was 1.3. Everything else as far as set up was the same.
So, even though, i didnt feel a lack of power in the first session, i was probably losing it a little bit. That could have been due to hot temps combined with different levels of humidity. That 1.2 lap time was set in 55 F temp. This time it was about 80
Anyway, i dont want to invest in a bigger oil cooler, radiator, and discover that i still have to deal with a limp mode.
As i said before, i already have Helix FMIC, and never had issues before Cobb tune at the track.
I will just detune it for track days and call it a day.

[DietTab]

I run the cobb stage 1+ sport map on full E85 for track days. Gives up 100hp vs the race map (350rwhp vs 450), but car runs strong and cool all day long, and has no issues pushing full E85 at the lower HP level with the LPFP upgrade.

[3002 tii]

Originally Posted by Groundpilot

My personal best at LRP is 1.2. But that was before COBB tune. First session time with tune was 1.3. Everything else as far as set up was the same.
So, even though, i didnt feel a lack of power in the first session, i was probably losing it a little bit. That could have been due to hot temps combined with different levels of humidity. That 1.2 lap time was set in 55 F temp. This time it was about 80
Anyway, i dont want to invest in a bigger oil cooler, radiator, and discover that i still have to deal with a limp mode.
As i said before, i already have Helix FMIC, and never had issues before Cobb tune at the track.
I will just detune it for track days and call it a day.

Just to clarify, 1.2 is 1 min and 2 seconds or 1 min and 12 seconds?

[Nugget]

Originally Posted by DietTab

I run the cobb stage 1+ sport map on full E85 for track days. Gives up 100hp vs the race map (350rwhp vs 450), but car runs strong and cool all day long, and has no issues pushing full E85 at the lower HP level with the LPFP upgrade.

Are you saying you run the Cobb OTS map with 100% e85?
Or have you modified it?

[Groundpilot]

Originally Posted by 3002 tii

Just to clarify, 1.2 is 1 min and 2 seconds or 1 min and 12 seconds?

1min. 2 sec.

[3002 tii]

Originally Posted by Groundpilot

1min. 2 sec.

That's pretty good, any suspension mods?

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by Groundpilot

Was at the LRP yesterday with my 135i DCT, N55 engine.
Cobb stage 1+fmic. No other power mods. Oil- Mobil1 0w-40. Ran with COBB tune at the track for the first time. Was looking forward to it, because the power gain was impressive, on the street that is.
First session was great, passing every car in front of me , no problem. Oil tempr. was at 270, which is ok for my car. Second session starts, and in a few laps i feel loss of power coming out of corners, my DCT upshifts waay before red line(i always drive in manual mode, street or track), car feels sluggish, oil temp is 270. No warning signs, or anything on the dashboard. After one lap cool down, car comes back alive, but only for one lap, and it goes to limp again. Next session got even worse. I had to cut my day short, didnt want to hurt my engine or trans., but i am very disappointed right now. Never had any of this with stock power.
Anyone has similar experience? Should i detune it for track days

What are you mods ?

[Groundpilot]

M3 bits, megan racing rear toe arm links, dinan springs with koni dampers revolved for dinan with ground control c.plates set to negative 3.5f/2r, some weight reduction(about 200 pounds), Hankook ventus z214 245f/275r on apex wheels, RB rotors, backing plates mod, dtc70f/60r pads, castrol SRF fluid, maddad muffler(gives me at least 10 whp) Helix FMIC
The only thing is, i still have stock diff. which is a limiting factor in slow. tight turns, other than that, car handles like a champ.
I think, if i dont lose power due to limp mode with cobb tune, i think 1 min at LRP is doable with this set up. I do lose at least 0.5 sec in the left hander with stock diff, but i am slowly moving my track funds towards my e92m3 now, wich is even more expensive to mod.

[DietTab]

Originally Posted by Nugget

Are you saying you run the Cobb OTS map with 100% e85?
Or have you modified it?

The OTS stage 1+ sport map with the scalar modified for full E85, and secondary cat codes turned off. My go fast map runs E60 and a whole lot of boost/timing, but the HPFP wont support full E85 at those power levels, and its generally too much power for an autox course anyway

[MightyMouseTech]

Just curious. Did not see it mentioned. Do you have the M sport package factory oil cooler?

[Andrewcoja]

270 seems really high.

[ASAP]

Ran car at summit point over the past weekend for about 20 hard minutes in 85F weather. I was running a Cobb Stg 2+ drive map (significantly lower power than my protune) and had 0 issues. Car ran like a beast for the entire session with the stock sport oil cooler... I got significant heatsoak however and after 10 or so laps; the power was significantly lower.

[3002 tii]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

Just curious. Did not see it mentioned. Do you have the M sport package factory oil cooler?

What 1/3-series (n54/55) don't come equipped with this? I thought it was only early model 335i's...

[vma1788]

Half off-topic: I have FBO and Procede running v5 aggressive maps. Can i run a stock map with all of the upgrades and not throw CEL/limp mode due to mods (cooling issues should be fine)??