New M3/ M4- what do we think?

[1'M Blue]

Looks and specs wise its fantastic !

love both M3 and M4 ... I hope we see a transition from our 1M's to the new M2 in a similar fashion.

[Robin_NL]

Theoretically I could see myself driving a black/silverstone/white F80 M3 6MT, but my kids are more or less grown up now so we don't need the space. Beautiful looks & specs but a tad too big...not to mention expensive in my country(guessing from 95k euros/120k US$ )


Cheers
Robin

[TunedM2C]

Can't wait to get my M4! Though I may trade it in for a M2 once that comes out.

[lcrain]

Originally Posted by redux

Meh, it's too big of a car and, I know I'll get flamed for this, probably too fast. I have little interest in owning a luxury barge and prefer something in the E46 size range for a commuter. From the looks of it, I'll be sticking with my golf tdi for the foreseeable future. It's not bad in visual department though.

I'm with you. I love power and going fast but when is this going to end? I still frighten myself with the 1M and stock power from time to time, so I don't feel the need for more.

I must say, it is quite impressive and looks great IMO. I don't need faster, I don't need bigger (currently), and I certainly don't *need* to spend more money on what essentially is a toy. Unless any of those criteria change, I don't see myself entertaining the idea of "upgrading."

[MrRoboto]

Does it have that crazy active sound? I would love to have an M3 as a daily driver and keep the 1M for special days. Cant bear to part with the 1M. It's such a special car and the value keeps going up.

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by Tuned1M

Can't wait to get my M4! Though I may trade it in for a M2 once that comes out.

LOL! already getting ready to trade in the car you just ordered?

dynamic moves, man!

[Splinterz88]

The weight reduction is impressive. The asthetics of the M3 appeal to me more than M4. I want to drive one and see if it fun to drive. The size seems a little big for me a small car guy. But with the release of the M235i Racing looking forward to M2 specs down the line.

[evolution80]

i like the looks - TURBO ftw!!! even the 4door is cool

still dont like the M4 name

but since it is going to run $ 165K base price here - i think ill keep my summer only 1M for a while

[Pete_vB]

One more thought upon further reflection:

I take back my statement that I'd like to see the M2 with the M3's motor; I think I'd rather see the M2 with less power.

Two reasons for this:

First, I'm expecting that the new M3 has a little more turbo lag than our 1Ms: peak torque is listed as starting from 1850 rpm in the new M3, vs 1500 rpm in the 1M (on a brake dyno) indicating the larger turbos need a little more runway to spool up. My preference would be to have a bit less power but better throttle response.

Second, along the lines of the above: The 1M isn't a numbers car; it's an experience car. It's not great because it's the fastest, has a fraction of a second better 0-60, etc. It's great because of the all around usability plus the experience it provides the driver. So while I realize some numbers are needed to sell a car (a new car must be faster than the one it replaces, for example), I'd encourage BMW to as much as possible throw out the rulers and give us the best experience possible, preferably with more track durability. That may mean focusing on getting the chassis to be as nimble and progressive as possible (through weight reduction?) but I'd leave it up to them to decide.

[lowbudgethero]

The best thing about it is you don't have the power drop off as dramatic on the n55, n54. I'm waiting to see who is going to get crazy amounts of power out of them.

[ozinaldo]

It is an evolution of 1M in a new 3/4 series platform, that's basically how I see it. This means that everything I like about it is related to 1M (engine properties, certain design elements, better than previous weight etc.) and everything I don't or probably won't like is about this new platform (size, too much electronics, certain design details etc.).

In short, like Pete and Dee Pee said in their posts, I also can't see myself parting with 1M just to "upgrade" to new M3/M4 because I already have better part of the new M car in my garage with less power (in stock form) but also smaller, more raw and simple.

A "special" M2 can change this sentiment though, and once again as Pete put it, it has to be an experience car, needs to make people feel something really different than competitors...like 1M did.

[Amnizu]

I'm concerned about the intercooler design mainly around the potential for heat soak and the starting price tag. Otherwise, it looks like an amazing car.

[Pete_vB]

Originally Posted by Amnizu

I'm concerned about the intercooler design mainly around the potential for heat soak...

I think they did water to air mainly to reduce turbo lag (less total volume on the intake side). Well designed they won't heat soak (Porsche used to use them on LeMans racers) but the drawback is weight- overall they tend to be heavier than air to air systems.

[Amnizu]

Originally Posted by Pete_vB

I think they did water to air mainly to reduce turbo lag (less total volume on the intake side). Well designed they won't heat soak (Porsche used to use them on LeMans racers) but the drawback is weight- overall they tend to be heavier than air to air systems.

The engineer in me believes you, the but the practical guy that understands running your charge air through a device that sits right on top of the hottest part of the engine bay really does not trust this design. Lets just say I would not want to be part of the early adopter group here.

[lowbudgethero]

they should put the s55 motor in the upcoming M2

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by redux

Meh, it's too big of a car and, I know I'll get flamed for this, probably too fast. I have little interest in owning a luxury barge and prefer something in the E46 size range for a commuter. From the looks of it, I'll be sticking with my golf tdi for the foreseeable future. It's not bad in visual department though.

+1

When former M Division boss Dr. Kay Segler was asked during a workshop at the 2011 Detroit Auto Show (Jan 2011) to coin the 1M in a single phrase he replied: "The 1M is basically a truncated M3 Competition Package with a manual". He added that the 1M does not need more power and that the production volume was kept low "to keep resale value as high as possible - creating an instant classic".

Just replace "1M" by "M2" in that phrase and you know what to look (out) for in the near future.

[robertm]

If I ever get rid of the 1m it would be for a 4 door. This is purely for family reasons. The new m3 would fit the bill pretty nicely. Even though it's quite a bit bigger proportionally with the power to weight they've accomplished it should still be quite the hooners car

Are the US base prices released yet?

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by ozinaldo

It is an evolution of 1M in a new 3/4 series platform, that's basically how I see it. This means that everything I like about it is related to 1M (engine properties, certain design elements, better than previous weight etc.) and everything I don't or probably won't like is about this new platform (size, too much electronics, certain design details etc.).
In short, like Pete and Dee Pee said in their posts, I also can't see myself parting with 1M just to "upgrade" to new M3/M4 because I already have better part of the new M car in my garage with less power (in stock form) but also smaller, more raw and simple.
A "special" M2 can change this sentiment though, and once again as Pete put it, it has to be an experience car, needs to make people feel something really different than competitors...like 1M did.

+1

Other approach: imagine that the 1M would not exist and BMW now releases the new M3/M4 alongside the 1M (thus 3 new ///M models). Still I would prefer the 1M over the M3/M4 even if the price-tag of the 1M would be higher than back in in 2011. If I ever upgrade, the M2 might be ranked high in the shortlist.

[ilikebmxbikes]

Originally Posted by Dee Pee

I don't think 1M owners like myself, who prefer something tossable, quick, and twitchy, will ultimately be drawn to upgrade; nor do I think that we are BMW's targeted demographic for this model.

I think this is really the main thing to consider. The M3/M4 are not meant to target 1m owners looking for a similar replacement. That is what the m2 will do ( or they hope it will) I think comparing an m3/4 to an e9x and e9x owner is more appropriate.

So many people here just say it is too big etc. It is obviously too big if you compare it to an e82, it is an m3/4. If it were smaller it would be the m2… Of course we can look back to the e46 size etc. but again, bmw won't step back and the 1/2 series is meant to target people looking for that size.

I am pretty impressed with the new cars and look forward to what modding possibilities they will have available to them.

[Dee Pee]

Originally Posted by ozinaldo

It is an evolution of 1M in a new 3/4 series platform, that's basically how I see it. This means that everything I like about it is related to 1M (engine properties, certain design elements, better than previous weight etc.) and everything I don't or probably won't like is about this new platform (size, too much electronics, certain design details etc.).

You nailed it Oz. That's exactly what is going on and the 1M is certainly a worthy "prototype" for the turbo/torque direction that a lot of marques are going. I guess the question I have is: will anything be "lost in translation" with the jump into a longer wheelbase and addition of all sorts of electronic tomfoolery. Even though our cars are vastly different than these new offerings I would hope that Project Pyrat's lessons regarding the "fun-factor" are carried forward by the M Division in some meaningful way.

[ozinaldo]

Originally Posted by Artemis

+1

Other approach: imagine that the 1M would not exist and BMW now releases the new M3/M4 alongside the 1M (thus 3 new ///M models). Still I would prefer the 1M over the M3/M4 even if the price-tag of the 1M would be higher than back in in 2011. If I ever upgrade, the M2 might be ranked high in the shortlist.

Exactly! If they would be released together NOW, I would also go for the 1M; and not because of a supposed price gap between the 1M and M4/M3. So, waiting to see what will they decide about the M2; if they finally make it official of course.

[ozinaldo]

Originally Posted by Dee Pee

You nailed it Oz. That's exactly what is going on and the 1M is certainly a worthy "prototype" for the turbo/torque direction that a lot of marques are going. I guess the question I have is: will anything be "lost in translation" with the jump into a longer wheelbase and addition of all sorts of electronic tomfoolery. Even though our cars are vastly different than these new offerings I would hope that Project Pyrat's lessons regarding the "fun-factor" are carried forward by the M Division in some meaningful way.

Electric steering, auto-rev-matching "manual" gear box, "active" M differential and sound amplifier feature all standard together tells me that we should not keep the expectations ultra high for the "raw-visceral" feeling maintained. Instead, they tell me now they (BMW) pre-defined what fun is and make it a bit easier to have for everyone

We need to wait and see for ourselves (a test drive next year) to make sure though; in the meantime I will continue hoping that M2 will indeed be offered at one point and will be less sophisticated/refined than this.