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      08-03-2018, 08:17 AM   #1
crowtrobot
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Best Wheel Size for 128i at the Track?

I'm looking to get another set of wheels to better fit my track tires, and trying to decide between 17" or 18" wheels.

I'm currently running 225/45/17 square on the stock 264s, but I'd like to go to something wider wheel-wise, even if the tire stays the same. Other setup is M-sport springs and -2.0* camber from Dinan plates and M3 control arms. My last track day at NJMP I found some rub marks on the spring perch of my strut, which I haven't seen from past experience at Watkins; I'm thinking the loads were higher and the tire deformed more.

I was originally thinking APEX ARC-8s in 17x8.5 ET40, with 235s, but it seems like the tire selection is not great. 245 has better selection, but I'm not sure of the fitment.

The other option would be APEX EC7 in 18x8.5 ET40. The tire selection is again better (and in some cases, cheaper even), aesthetics are a little better I guess, but the wheels and tires will probably be heavier, which I'd like to avoid.

Any thoughts from the people who track their 128s?

Last edited by crowtrobot; 08-03-2018 at 08:33 AM..
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      08-03-2018, 09:05 AM   #2
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Wow. I was about to post this exact question and have identical concerns and setup. Also interested in all of the things asked plus thoughts on D-Force LTW5 vs ARC-8 vs EC7 as a track wheel.

Also, I am using stock 128i calipers. I would prefer 17” wheels but curious whether any of the three options above would limit the ability to go to 135i or F30 calipers down the road.

Last edited by rowsdower; 08-03-2018 at 09:30 AM..
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      08-03-2018, 10:56 AM   #3
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I'd go with 17" wheels just because tires are generally cheaper. The 17x8.5 ET40 with 245/40R17 tires will probably fit fine in the front, but could rub the fender in the rear.

As far as brake calipers are concerned, I think the 135i calipers will clear most 17" wheels. Mine clear my Style 68 track wheels but just barely. Not sure about the F30 calipers though...
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      08-03-2018, 12:08 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rowsdower View Post
Also, I am using stock 128i calipers. I would prefer 17” wheels but curious whether any of the three options above would limit the ability to go to 135i or F30 calipers down the road.
This really depends on the wheel and the caliper. The 262's will clear the BMWP/135i Brembos. I think they will clear the F30s as well, but not entirely sure. 262s definitely don't have the offset clearance to accommodate the Stoptech BBK.

I sent APEX a printout of the 128i Stoptech kit and they said that the 17" ARC8 would clear it though, so I'm sure they would not have an issue with the 135i calipers or the F30s.
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      08-03-2018, 12:13 PM   #5
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For what it's worth, I just installed 225/45/17s all around on 17x8 wheels with a 45mm offset. For spirited street driving, I think it's fine or even beneficial. For a track car, I think the sidewall is too tall and would roll too easily. Fortunately there are a few 225/40/17 tires available, but they are exclusively track tires (which is what you want).

Someone with more track experience should weigh in on width, but I really don't think anything larger than 235mm is necessary on a car like the 128i. Anything more may actually slow you down. I think you will pick up more time with better balance than you would ever lose from reduced traction/grip.

The 17" size was a big concern for me also since I eventually want to upgrade to the M Performance BBK for the 128i. Since these are the same size as the 135i calipers, I was able to confirm fitment via Tire Rack's wheel guide by using the 135i as my model. Unfortunately they don't sell Apex, but they do carry some superlight TR wheels that fit your needs.
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      08-04-2018, 09:58 PM   #6
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@crowtrobot what group do you run with moehpd,NASA? Be nice to run with a fellow 1er here and there. I'm out of BK.

FWIW I run apex ec-7 and Ohlins r&t w -2.3 camber up front on my 135i

Wheels:
Front 18x8.5 ETS 45 with 235 fronts Hankook rs4
Rear 18x9.5 ETS 58 with 265 rears Hankook Rs4

Tires costs are about $200 a tire it's a great setup, but I'm going to try and squeeze 245s up front. This setup is 3-5lbs lighter than my 17inch winter set up per wheel and abt the same for the stock 18 inch wheels style 961 I think.

Hope that helps.
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      08-05-2018, 12:07 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beattiecj View Post
@crowtrobot what group do you run with moehpd,NASA? Be nice to run with a fellow 1er here and there. I'm out of BK.

FWIW I run apex ec-7 and Ohlins r&t w -2.3 camber up front on my 135i

Wheels:
Front 18x8.5 ETS 45 with 235 fronts Hankook rs4
Rear 18x9.5 ETS 58 with 265 rears Hankook Rs4

Tires costs are about $200 a tire it's a great setup, but I'm going to try and squeeze 245s up front. This setup is 3-5lbs lighter than my 17inch winter set up per wheel and abt the same for the stock 18 inch wheels style 961 I think.

Hope that helps.
beattiecj Thanks for the input! Good to have some hard numbers on the weight vs your 17's, that's been my concern. I am leaning towards the 18x8.5 with 235s, it seems to be a more common config, and the tires are not really any more expensive.

I have been running with the GVC BMWCCA Chapter at Watkins, went to NJMP with Riesentoter PCA. Have not had a weekend with a NASA group.
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      08-05-2018, 02:37 PM   #8
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I'm running a square setup...

Wheels: 17x7.5" ET42 Sport Edition (I know, I know) SE-16 ~19-20lbs
Tires: 245/45ZR17 Firestone Firehawk Indy 500

Note: I had to have the rear fenders rolled a hint to stop some rubbing...

About $90 a tire, $60 a wheel, it looks good enough for me, and handled AMAZINGLY well (super neutral, really balanced) with my other suspension mods (build thread in signature below) at my last track event at Summit Point's Shenandoah Circuit.

Not too extreme a setup, but great if you're starting out and don't want to invest too much right away (lower grip tires were great for doing suspension setup and tuning over time).

Aaand, they clear my F30 335i brakes, if you ever decide to upgrade to them...
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      08-07-2018, 11:31 AM   #9
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17x8.5 et40 with 245s would be great. You will probably need to do the E90 rear hub mod, which is pretty cheap and will allow you to run a true square set up, so worth it. While you're doing the hub mod, I suggest upgrading to E90 335 brakes front and rear.
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      08-07-2018, 01:15 PM   #10
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@the guys running 245/17s:

Did you have to roll the rear fenders at all? I had toyed around with this idea last year and contact APEX, and they were quite sure that 245 would require a little bit of roll in the back.

Not a bad idea with the hub swap, but probably a bit more involved than I feel like going right now, maybe when it comes time to do wheel bearings... I already have the BMWP/135i brake kit on, which melting boots aside, I'm pretty satisfied with.
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      08-09-2018, 03:14 PM   #11
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245's

I run 245's square on these Z4 wheels

They have 47mm offset, and do not need spacers. Just swap and drive. I do run dinan camber plates up front. You don't need the M3 front arms either, the plates provide enough camber to clear. Never any rubbing on track.

Last edited by markslc1; 01-29-2019 at 12:32 AM..
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      08-09-2018, 05:22 PM   #12
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Definitely go 17s for the track. Love look of 18s but they are just for that... looks.
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      09-27-2018, 03:04 PM   #13
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Just to follow up on this thread - I ended up going with 18" EC7s for several reasons: 235 tire selection and prices were better for 18" wheels, and also, I like the look of the EC7s better.

I'm very satisfied with the decision. With both lighter tire and wheel, I'm down ~4lb per corner. I just got back from a track weekend at Watkins Glen and was in the ballpark of 7s/lap faster!! Had no idea 10mm of tire would make that much difference, but wow. Rarely had open track over the weekend since it was a busy event, but the overall times were that much lower.

Not sure how much of that is the 18" vs 17" wheels, but in any case, it made a huge difference from the stock 17's, and the car feels almost perfect now. As I said, very satisfied with the upgrade!
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      09-28-2018, 09:52 AM   #14
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I'll follow up too... I bought crowtrobot's old stock wheels

I am very satisfied with having two sets of stock wheels, which I can make two square setups now. I did a track day about 2 weeks ago on the square tires that were mounted on the wheels I got... the car was very balanced. Someday down the road I'll probably also end up with EC7s (if not another Miata).

Overall this seemed to have worked out perfectly for both of us!
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      10-03-2018, 02:58 PM   #15
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Alex Hart, a very good driver with years and hours and hours of track time, used 18x8 OZ Ultraleggeras with 235/40/18 cup 2s on his E8x 130i.

He said on the German forums that he was very happy with that setup, but he was running KW CS 2 way and about -2 camber up front.

It is basically going to be my wheel choice, but tires im not sure brand wise.
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      10-15-2018, 01:58 PM   #16
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I need to correct my comment above.

Alex was running -3.3 camber up front and -2.0 camber in the rear on his KW CS 2 way with included camber plates. This setup is not TÜV approved, so not road legal in Germany.

OZ Ultras 18x8 ET32, it is NOT on a 1 series coupe, but on the 3 door 130i (the offsets are different i believe).

He also claimed that the Cup 2 tires lasted a good 110 laps on NOS with 1.9 bar cold pressure all round.
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      10-22-2018, 11:47 AM   #17
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Happy to chime in here. If you are willing to run some camber, then the ARC-8 17x8.5" ET40 with 245/40-17 tires can definitely work. We've had quite a few 1 series customers run this fitment with a lot of success. You mentioned you are running -2 degree's of camber, which may be just enough, however, it will depend on your ride height and tire brand/compound

If you are looking for a more bolt-on fitment we do offer our 18" ARC-8 and EC-7 wheels in a 1 series fitment:

18" Square:
F&R: 18x8.5' ET45 - 235/40-18 or 245/35-18 (245 will require a 5mm spacer to clear suspension, and some negative camber dialed in)

18" Staggered:
F: 18x8.5" ET45 - 235/40-18
R: 18x9.5" ET58 - 265/35-18

We do have a comprehensive fitment guide written up as well that you can check out here. If you want to dive into further detail about the best fitment for your car, feel free to PM us or give us a call

-Matt
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      11-03-2018, 12:10 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Expert@ApexRaceParts View Post
Happy to chime in here. If you are willing to run some camber, then the ARC-8 17x8.5" ET40 with 245/40-17 tires can definitely work. We've had quite a few 1 series customers run this fitment with a lot of success. You mentioned you are running -2 degree's of camber, which may be just enough, however, it will depend on your ride height and tire brand/compound

If you are looking for a more bolt-on fitment we do offer our 18" ARC-8 and EC-7 wheels in a 1 series fitment:

18" Square:
F&R: 18x8.5' ET45 - 235/40-18 or 245/35-18 (245 will require a 5mm spacer to clear suspension, and some negative camber dialed in)

18" Staggered:
F: 18x8.5" ET45 - 235/40-18
R: 18x9.5" ET58 - 265/35-18

We do have a comprehensive fitment guide written up as well that you can check out here. If you want to dive into further detail about the best fitment for your car, feel free to PM us or give us a call

-Matt
Does the 125i/128i even tuned with 270-ish hp need 265s in the rear?

When i did some searches here, results shown for the N52 a square 235/40/17 is "the best", 245/40/17 if one desire more grip and for x-cross and serious track 255s all round on 17s.

245/35s are out of the question for me, no one makes a track day tire in Germany that size except Federals and their 595RS-RR which are not legal (unless you enter competition).
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      11-04-2018, 11:33 AM   #19
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Don’t want to start a new thread since this is along the same lines of what I’m looking for.

My question is, will the 7.5” style 207 wheels fit on the front no problem? I like the OEM look of the car but want to run a square setup for balance and tire rotation ability. Want to run 225/45/17 all around.

My upcoming suspension mods are going to be M3 front control arms and the Performance suspension. I’m assuming it should all fit no problem, but wanted to check here if there would be any problems doing so.
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      11-05-2018, 02:10 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie_Head View Post
Does the 125i/128i even tuned with 270-ish hp need 265s in the rear?

When i did some searches here, results shown for the N52 a square 235/40/17 is "the best", 245/40/17 if one desire more grip and for x-cross and serious track 255s all round on 17s.

245/35s are out of the question for me, no one makes a track day tire in Germany that size except Federals and their 595RS-RR which are not legal (unless you enter competition).
I would agree that 265 tires are quite a bit of rubber for the 125i/128i. The best track setup for that car in my opinion would be the 17x8.5" ET40 with 235/40-17 or 245/40-17 tires. Camber will be required for both, but the reduction in unsprung weight, cheaper tires, and the rotatable squared setup will prove very effective
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      11-05-2018, 02:22 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Expert@ApexRaceParts View Post
I would agree that 265 tires are quite a bit of rubber for the 125i/128i. The best track setup for that car in my opinion would be the 17x8.5" ET40 with 235/40-17 or 245/40-17 tires. Camber will be required for both, but the reduction in unsprung weight, cheaper tires, and the rotatable squared setup will prove very effective
That is my plan, the rear (or the whole car) is maybe 5mm lower than stock. When i mounted my winter wheels and tires (17x7.5 225/45 all round) there is loads of room in the back, even asked the mechanic at the DIY shop i go to, if he thinks that 17 245s ET40 will fit in the rear. After looking around and feeling about, most likely yes.

But i will go for 235s all round on 17x8.5 ET40 first, when the time comes for new track tires, 245s will be considered.
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      11-05-2018, 07:27 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Expert@ApexRaceParts View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie_Head View Post
Does the 125i/128i even tuned with 270-ish hp need 265s in the rear?

When i did some searches here, results shown for the N52 a square 235/40/17 is "the best", 245/40/17 if one desire more grip and for x-cross and serious track 255s all round on 17s.

245/35s are out of the question for me, no one makes a track day tire in Germany that size except Federals and their 595RS-RR which are not legal (unless you enter competition).
I would agree that 265 tires are quite a bit of rubber for the 125i/128i. The best track setup for that car in my opinion would be the 17x8.5" ET40 with 235/40-17 or 245/40-17 tires. Camber will be required for both, but the reduction in unsprung weight, cheaper tires, and the rotatable squared setup will prove very effective
Just out of curiosity why not 17x8 et42 or et45 square?
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