Post break in oil change?

[Mad Dragon]

North America is the only market I am aware of that has free maintenance. The rest of the world still has 15k oil intervals. Brake fluid is and always has been replaced every 2 years.

[vlupiano]

I love all the self-proclaimed experts in these threads, especially this one regarding oil changes. BMW has a few hundred engineers in Munich that know more about their engines than anyone on the planet. Yet, we get threads that contain words like, "I heard," "I read somewhere," "A friend told me," about when to change oil, what oil to use, etc., etc. How 'bout, you leave the oil change issues to engineers who designed the car and, at the same time, read the manual and adhere to it's advice. There are hundreds of owners out there that feel impotent unless they do something to their -- like change oil and tranny fluids when they're not supposed to. What I really like are the guys who change rims and tires and then have rubbing issues!

I've owned three brand new M3s over the years and followed the oil change routine ACCORDING TO THE MANUAL that was written by an engineer with specific knowledge about that engine. Back in the day, before computer chips ran cars, the rule was change the oil every 3,000 miles. This oil changing stuff every 3,000 miles is truly old school crap. But it sounds cool to say "I change every 3,000 miles." What the manual says is what I do. If the engine blows, BMW pays for it -- not me because I changed the oil or did some other wacky modification that is totally unecessary and a waste of money.

After I picked up my 1-Series in Munich this past July, I took the factory tour. While waiting around at the factory to begin the tour I got into a conversation with a BMW engineer and I asked him about oil changes outside those prescribed in the manual. He said, "That's a total waste of money. Just do what the manual says." He seemed amused, too, about the guys who thought the oil BMW suggested was not as good as the oil they "heard another guy say was better."

For me, I'll stick with the manual. If anything goes wrong, it's up to BMW to fix it. In the meantime, the money I save doing useless oil changes and modifications will be better spent elsewhere. Like putting in the best prescribed gas I can find. Now, that's doing your engine a favor! And I didn't hear that from a friend; I read about that in the manual.

[bozola]

Vince. Nice Post.

I will add that it may be a total waste of money, but for some it's re-assurance. I went back and forth on my first oil change. Finally broke down @ 3000 miles just to 'be sure' even though I was pretty sure it was a 'waste of money'.

Posts like these are informative. Since I will have a similar dilemma @ 7500.

PS. Don't ask me about the guy that I met that NEVER changed his oil, only the filter every 10K.

[vlupiano]

Oil, as you probably know, is not a simple issue; it can be very complex. And the less an owner knows about, the more he can get into trouble. Oil changes, to many, are simple: you drain the old and put in the new -- sounds cool and easy. And then there are the "hip" oild -- Red Line comes to mind, and the hip gas brands. Sunoco used to be a big one with their super high octane fuels fit for propeller driven fighter planes. But, I have to think that the BMW engineers have spent years analyzing what the best oil is for a specific engine; this ain't a willy-nilly decision. Dollar-wise there's a lot of coin riding on what they put in the engine because, in the long run, if it's wrong it can cost millions of dollars to fix and piss off a lot of customers, both new and potential.

Reassurance is great, yes. But reassurance cuts two ways: one is changing oil at 3,000 and 7,500; the other is abiding by the rules in the manual. Everyone who loves cars wants to go the extra mile. That's why wax and polish companies make a fortune: because everyone wants the assurance that they are buying the best wax/polish there is. Zymol, as you know, has a wax that goes for more than several hundred bucks for a can. That's not reassurance, that's overkill.

Years ago, I did the oil change thing at 3,000, 7,500, etc. I think a lot of guys like to say they do this when asked because it shows how "car hip" they are. "Jeez, this guy knows his stuff." Because if you ask the average owner out there the weight of his oil or many quarts are in the engine, will give you the same look you get from a deer when headlights shine in their eyes.

Overkill can be a problem with oil. Not with wax. Wax overkill isn't dangerous. Putting the wrong oil into a sophisticated engine can do serious damage. Not only that, but it can void a warranty. Because if BMW is going to fork over ten grand for a new 1-Series engine, you might just bet they're going to fly in some boys from Munich to analyze the fluids and the manner in which the engine was driven. (I know first hand that this happens: my service manager told me about a kid whose father bought him a new M3. With 3200 miles on the odo, the kid had the car towed in with a blown engine. Dad tried to convince BMW that it was the fault of their engine -- a faulty oil pump that he "heard about." Well, the Germans airlifted two hard-crankin' engineers into New Jersey from Munich with automotive degrees from some very fancy universities, and, surprise, after a week, the conclusion was the kid not only over-revved the engine but he also changed the oil himself to some "hip" brand used in race cars. Dad's wallet was $15K lighter.)

I know it's nice to baby cars. It makes you smile. I use the best wax, the best auto wash, I wash the car myself, I use P21S and every other well-known expensive brand. But I ain't changing my oil until the manual tells me.

My reassurance is -- I sleep well and my car shines like a blue sapphire.

[bozola]

Once again nice post.

I had the reassurance of using the BMW dealership with BMW approved oil. Agreed, not to the manual's recommendation, but not on my own either.

Now.. to go buy some Zymol...:smile:

[ChrisK]

Good post Vince. I don't doubt that the BMW engineers know more about their engines then any of us. However, these are the same BMW engineers that said nothing was wrong with the e46 M3 engines when they would fail.

I personally feel that 12k-15k is just tooo long to wait between oil changes (ironically so did BMW a few years ago)

[mistermojorizin]

Vince, you are presupposing that bmw does/recommends what is ultimately best for the car. I believe this is naive.

those engineers in munich might know what is best for the car, but it has to go through the accountants, lawyers, marketing people and all the business people b4 it filters down to us.

in business you do what is most efficient for the business. sometimes you don't issue a recall.

"A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one."

[GemBm]

I agree but, I will change my oil at around 1200-1500 miles.

[vlupiano]

I hear all of you, and to certain extent I agree. Particularly the comment about BMW engineers, accountants, lawyers, etc. I certainly do not believe that BMW's engineers have a final say in everything; if so, you probably couldn't buy one of their cars for less than $200,000. Indeed, it's all about compromise. But on the other side of the coin, what authority out there says that it's safe to make other choices above and beyond what the engineers suggest? I'm talking "authority," not the motorheads that have a vague notion of what's cool for them first, and the car second --and certainly not all the self-proclaimed experts you hear esposing their "wisdom" on everything from oil changes to coil-overs. To take someone's advice on tinting windows or the variances on wheel clearners is one thing; but complex issues like oil and after-market engine mods, for me, starts to border on the scary.

What I do believe is that BMW has good intentions borne out by their great cars and enormous respect. The M3 oil pump sitaution was a serious mistake -- stuff happens. At the same time, I also believe in picking a single horse and going with it to the end of the race. Otherwise, it's like chasing mercury.

In this case -- for now, at least -- it's sticking with the manual for me. Maybe what the world needs is a bunch of retired BMW engineers who have no axe to grind who can dispense "objective" wisdom on this and all other things too complex for the average driver to truly comprehend in a few posts on the Internet.

Meanwhile, the debate rages on. . . .

[gatorfast]

Like every business, its all about the money. Since BMW is the one shelling out the money for the oil changes, they want to minimize the amount they spend.

Im sure BMW hired an actuarial firm to calculate the most efficient way to offer "free" oil changes. That is, they calculated the most amount of miles the car could go with the same oil before it causes engine problems. This will assure them that in the long run they will spend the least amount possible on oil changes and engine repair work.

I dont think its a waste of money for someone to change their oil more frequently. If it gives them piece of mind then so be it. There is something to be said for that. How much money are we really talking here? About $60 an oil change if you do it yourself? Not exactly a bank breaker, even if you do it multiple times a year.

[imported_McLovin]

To me it depends on how long you plan on keeping the car. I was told that BMW's keep 60% of their value after 4 years. That equates to over 20k in trade in or sale value if the car is in good condition. I wonder what car I could get myself into with that much down...

[Mad Dragon]

Originally Posted by mistermojorizin

"A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one."

You really shouldn't site Chuck Palahniuk as a credible source, since most of the stuff he writes is pure fantasy.

Originally Posted by gatorfast

Like every business, its all about the money. Since BMW is the one shelling out the money for the oil changes, they want to minimize the amount they spend.

Im sure BMW hired an actuarial firm to calculate the most efficient way to offer "free" oil changes. That is, they calculated the most amount of miles the car could go with the same oil before it causes engine problems. This will assure them that in the long run they will spend the least amount possible on oil changes and engine repair work.

You didn't even read my previous post, did you?

[gatorfast]

^ what does that post have to do with what I posted?

[bozola]

I think he's saying that the oil interval is 15k regardless of free maintenance or not. Which would negate your comment about BMW calculating the best interval to minimize BMW oil change costs.

[spongeWorthy]

Originally Posted by Mad Dragon

You really shouldn't site Chuck Palahniuk as a credible source, since most of the stuff he writes is pure fantasy.

you are Not your F-ing Service Manual.

:biggrin:

[marius]

say i want to do this 1200 mile oil change. What do I say when I bring the car to the dealer for it? Just say I want oil change and nothing else? And how much will this cost me?

[TP 135i]

Originally Posted by marius

say i want to do this 1200 mile oil change. What do I say when I bring the car to the dealer for it? Just say I want oil change and nothing else? And how much will this cost me?

Yes....Just tell them that you want only an oil/filter change and to not reset the counter.
For most, it's around $100 from the dealer.