Will the 1 series M earn a title as "The Poors Mans //M"

[HBspeed]

Originally Posted by Pete_vB

I'm part of that club... in fact it seems a few of us are.

You might consider it flattery- what the hell are we all doing here? I've never been interested enough to join a BMW forum before, even when I owned an M3. All these claims of the 911 and 1M not being cross-shopped, etc, but here we are...

I think it says something about the 1M... but maybe that's just me.

+1

However it is the idea of the 1M that attracted me as I am sure many others, not necessarily the disappointing reality we have been given. I expected an upgrade over the 10 year old E46 M3. I find it hard to understand how anyone can see this 1M as that unless you are a huge turbo or tuning fan. It weighs 46 lbs. more and only has an additional 2 hp. meaning it has a worse power to weight ratio

[Pete_vB]

Originally Posted by HBspeed

+1

However it is the idea of the 1M that attracted me as I am sure many others, not necessarily the disappointing reality we have been given. I expected an upgrade over the 10 year old E46 M3. I find it hard to understand how anyone can see this 1M as that unless you are a huge turbo or tuning fan. It weighs 46 lbs. more and only has an additional 2 hp. meaning it has a worse power to weight ratio

Well I'm coming from an E46 M3 as well... To tell you the truth I was never really that impressed with that car.

I am looking forwards to this one more- I think in practice this car is going to have an equal or better power to weight even before tuning, as dynos show even the 335is motor is considerably under-rated. The torque is going to give it more area under the curve, so 2nd gear should be good at the autocross. I believe general suspension and brake progress is going to let it handle better (I mean the 10 seconds on the 'ring must have come from someplace)...

All that said, I must admit that the tune-ability is the kicker for me. I started out in 944 turbos which were just tremendously under-rated street cars, and long-term I see the 1M going that direction. With a few well placed mods those things were easily good for over 50% more than stock power with few downsides. It did take a few years for the tuning market to mature for those, but I see the 35i motor on a similar path now...

We'll see how the 1M is stock, what class SCCA puts it in, etc. Depending on how exiting it feels out of the box, it's certainly nice to know that with a few quick mods it can have a 20%+ power to weight advantage over an E46 M3, potentially with a Dinan or other warranty, and once they get turbos worked out it will have the option of being a monster. The main Dinan facility is just down the road and I've used their hub dyno before, so I know those guys a little and trust them to keep it reliable. We'll see.

I'm often disappointed with the recent offerings from BMW, porsche, etc. I guess with this car my expectations are just not that high. It's tough to get too excited about any street car, and this looks like a decent, balanced, fun, affordable package for a daily driver. If you were expecting the second coming then no, it's certainly not that...

[XJS]

Originally Posted by HBspeed

+1

However it is the idea of the 1M that attracted me as I am sure many others, not necessarily the disappointing reality we have been given. I expected an upgrade over the 10 year old E46 M3. I find it hard to understand how anyone can see this 1M as that unless you are a huge turbo or tuning fan. It weighs 46 lbs. more and only has an additional 2 hp. meaning it has a worse power to weight ratio

I don't really understand your logic, or I do understand it but:

E46 M3 is almost the same as the 335i when it comes to lap times, 0-60 etc. When the 335i is stock.

Now the 135i is a tad quicker than the 335i.

Fast forward to the 1M, with more hp, better cooling, M diff, wider body. I would say it will be a substantial upgrade to the E46 M3. It will most likely have almost the same numbers as the E9x M3, with the E9x M3 eeking out just a bit more for marketing. But even with a safe and modest tune, the 1M will easily edge out the E9x M3 as well.

[HBspeed]

Originally Posted by Pete_vB

I'm often disappointed with the recent offerings from BMW, porsche, etc. I guess with this car my expectations are just not that high. It's tough to get too excited about any street car, and this looks like a decent, balanced, fun, affordable package for a daily driver. If you were expecting the second coming then no, it's certainly not that...

True, it does all come down to expectations. When BMW hypes a car to the extreme and teases undisguised body panels for many months, any let down is deserved and self inflicted.

We have literally been lead to believe the 1M is the second coming of the E30 M3. So when it turns out rather to be just a more tunable but less special engine in a heavier yet more confined package when compared to the E46 M3... we ought to be disappointed.

Originally Posted by XJS

I don't really understand your logic, or I do understand it but:

E46 M3 is almost the same as the 335i when it comes to lap times, 0-60 etc. When the 335i is stock.

Now the 135i is a tad quicker than the 335i.

Fast forward to the 1M, with more hp, better cooling, M diff, wider body. I would say it will be a substantial upgrade to the E46 M3. It will most likely have almost the same numbers as the E9x M3, with the E9x M3 eeking out just a bit more for marketing. But even with a safe and modest tune, the 1M will easily edge out the E9x M3 as well.

I was never talking directly about lap times. The E30 M3's lap time would be terrible in comparison but nobody is going to call it a worse car than any modern M because of this.

I am referring rather to the qualities that make these cars qualify as enthusiast sports cars. A naturally aspirated engine with individual throttle bodies and a high revving nature does factor into response and precision control. These are offer real benefits in advanced driving. However this is not that only reason I would debate engine credentials.

We can be quite sure today that the S54 will likely go down as BMW's greatest road going naturally aspirated Inline 6 ever. The same can be said for the S14, S65, and S85 for their respective engine configurations as well.

We also know the current BMW offerings of forced induction engines are first generation and will be improved upon likely for decades to come in terms of not only performance but also reliability and fuel economy.

Turbo engine do offer real torque advantages and serious tunability at low investment, but you are loosing out in the areas of precision control, aural excitement, and exotic specialness.

As far as handling we all know suspension technology is improving, largely due to the ability to use computer simulation technology to achieve the ideal set up in ways not possible 10 or even 5 years ago. This is inevitable progress and will be the same story for the next generation M cars as well.

If you want to speak of pure handling after modification, once you install a set Moton's or Ohlins a car's weight, torsional rigidity and center of gravity will be the primary factors determining handling prowess.

[Mu Mu]

Originally Posted by XJS

I don't really understand your logic, or I do understand it but:

E46 M3 is almost the same as the 335i when it comes to lap times, 0-60 etc. When the 335i is stock.

Now the 135i is a tad quicker than the 335i.

Fast forward to the 1M, with more hp, better cooling, M diff, wider body. I would say it will be a substantial upgrade to the E46 M3. It will most likely have almost the same numbers as the E9x M3, with the E9x M3 eeking out just a bit more for marketing. But even with a safe and modest tune, the 1M will easily edge out the E9x M3 as well.

This.

[techthentic]

Originally Posted by MrRoboto

If you read any earlier posts you would see that I am debating on weather to go with the 1M or an M3. When I sell my 135 I want something 'substantially' better/different and not sure that the 1M will deliver for the price.

Got nothing to do with affordability at all. It's about performance/value vs cost. The 135 is a perfect example of this. A 300hp german coupe for ~40k is a good deal in my book.

Read, the 135i is already good value, but the 1M gives you more than 15 grand worth of improvement for a ~15 grand price increase. How is that not good value?
Like I said, if the 135i is enough for you, then let that be it. Don't call 1M buyers DUMB since they're buying a car for just as much if not more bang for buck.

[sparoz]

Originally Posted by MrRoboto

If you read any earlier posts you would see that I am debating on weather to go with the 1M or an M3. When I sell my 135 I want something 'substantially' better/different and not sure that the 1M will deliver for the price.

Got nothing to do with affordability at all. It's about performance/value vs cost. The 135 is a perfect example of this. A 300hp german coupe for ~40k is a good deal in my book.

I guess, "substantially better" is different for everyone.

My biggest gripe of the 135i was its suspension set up - despite great body control, similar to the E46, it has much more body travel - which is atypical of a BMW.

1M I believe to me would be substantially better for me because I don't believe it needs more power for what I want from the car. My only issue is actually I might have a change in family structure soon which will force me out of the 1M because it is not as practical as the X5M or a E90 M3.

If for you, you dig power over the dynamics of the car - then of course it is dumb to get a 1M and not a 135i.

[jaserion]

who cares what people think/call?! 1M is still greater A LOT of other cars. think accords, camry and etc.


just enjoy the 1M!

[MrRoboto]

Originally Posted by lacrosse

Come to the dark side. Buy a 911!

Believe me, I have thought about it but I really need an all-arounder and 911 is not it. M3 is more in line with my needs, useable back seat, trunk space, at home on the street and track, etc.

[MrRoboto]

Originally Posted by Robert

I am going to. Certainly a Cayman S or a GTR depending on how much I want to spend. Like I mentioned somewhere else on the forum, going from 135i to 1M is like buying latest edition of your favorite book. Some great book you always enjoyed with improvements but money for the buck you better off buying another master piece.

Exactly!

[spellbmw]

Originally Posted by emthree4me

Do you think that this Car will earn the similiar title as The Poors Mans M car ?

Do you seriously buy a vehicle to impress others? Or do you buy a vehicle because it impresses you?

Don't worry about what other people think; they're usually only thinking of themselves anyway...

[emthree4me]

Originally Posted by spellbmw

Do you seriously buy a vehicle to impress others? Or do you buy a vehicle because it impresses you?

Don't worry about what other people think; they're usually only thinking of themselves anyway...

I noticed you got a BMW, Did you buy it to impress others or was impress of what other review of it?

Why didnt you just get and IS350 or STX of something ?

Im sure you had taken what others think and said about it and just didnt wake up one morning and all of a sudden had a Awakening to get a BMW, and a 135i t that.

[ChrisK]

Originally Posted by penny

Before the 1M came around, did you consider the M3 "The Poor Man's M" since it was the cheapest M car?

^ Ahh no, since the M3 is the defacto standard.

[ChrisK]

The 1M will be called the Poor Man's M, just like the 135i was called the Poor Man's 335i.

So what - The whole thing is nonsense. Haters will hate no matter what.

The 1M will be a great car no matter what everyone thinks of the styling.

[spellbmw]

Originally Posted by emthree4me

I noticed you got a BMW, Did you buy it to impress others or was impress of what other review of it?

Why didnt you just get and IS350 or STX of something ?

Im sure you had taken what others think and said about it and just didnt wake up one morning and all of a sudden had a Awakening to get a BMW, and a 135i t that.

Perhaps to help clarify my point: I bought my car because its impressed me in all the categories I wanted in a car; I didn't buy it as a 'status symbol' to impress others or care if they think 'oh wow, cool or crappy car'. And, of course, I read reviews of it and other vehicles that I was considering, but those 'impressions' were for technical information. Bottom-line: get what you want based on your own criteria, not someone's rather adolescent view of a product being a status-symbol.

[ruff]

Porsches and BMWs make for great status symbols. The status being you invest in depreciating assets.

[penny]

Originally Posted by ChrisK

^ Ahh no, since the M3 is the defacto standard.

Now... what IF the 1M becomes the defacto standard?

For me, I don't really care. I drive a beater DD so being seen as a poor dude is an everyday deal.

[///M1]

Not sure if I am a minority or majority, but I don't base my opinion on a car relative to what it may be perceived by others. True aficionados buy cars for the value they attribute/bring to them, without regard what others may think. If it hits all your buttons, then it's a go. Any other rationale factoring in the buying decision is just being poseurish/elitist.

It's true for any car, doesn't have to be an ///M, AMG, RS etc. Take the Volt. You should buy it if YOU believe it is environmentally friendly and YOU want to make a contribution to reduced emissions. Not that others may like you more for being a tree-hugger.

As the price of the 1 ///M will likely be that of a CPO'ed E9x M3, I recon the posers will be naturally weeded out. This is not a car for everybody, and a buyer should be the least concerned what others may think about of it. There are cheaper (albeit) entries into the ///M brand than this. Hecck, you can get a cheaper used M6 than a brand new 1 ///M!

[emthree4me]

Originally Posted by spellbmw

Perhaps to help clarify my point: I bought my car because its impressed me in all the categories I wanted in a car; I didn't buy it as a 'status symbol' to impress others or care if they think 'oh wow, cool or crappy car'. And, of course, I read reviews of it and other vehicles that I was considering, but those 'impressions' were for technical information. Bottom-line: get what you want based on your own criteria, not someone's rather adolescent view of a product being a status-symbol.

So! in this case, There are very good arguments that makes merit to build a case on both side of the fence.

[technik330]

^

It was only a matter of time before a thread like this was created; what are the chances it was created by an M3 owner...?

Way to create an awesome, useful, thread...

[lacrosse]

Originally Posted by MrRoboto

Believe me, I have thought about it but I really need an all-arounder and 911 is not it. M3 is more in line with my needs, useable back seat, trunk space, at home on the street and track, etc.

We may not have seen eye to eye in the past but I do wish you good luck with whatever you choose. I understand your point about the 911. 1M/M3 can't really go wrong with either one.

Happy Holidays!

[duk]

as an m3 owner, i would say no, it's a sweet car and an M after all