Limp Mode, HPFP Problem? Need Help

[aefwolf]

So instead of going back and forth on this, I figured I would just give you a comprehensive overview of the problems, what I have done to fix, and questions I have. Basically, anytime I go over 3rd gear and open the throttle more than 50%, my car goes into limp mode with the ½ Engine light.

I believe I have narrowed this down to the HPFP, I have one on order, and if nothing we do here can fix it, I will install it next week and see if that fixes our problem which I am 90% sure it will.

Please read this, I have questions for you in the body of the email:

• Dealer did a smoke test, it failed - said the wastage was open and sent a confirmation photo - Did pass vacuum line tests.
• Waste Gate Actuator appears to be functioning and the car is getting boost. Was able to physically move it and verify it was not frozen and had vaccum.
• The next step is the HPFP. Car sounds like it has symptoms of it failing.
• -Use MHD to Reset Adaptions for HPFP - Tested Car. - Reset adaptations did nothing, back into limp mode any time I open up the throttle.

Did some research,

Symptoms - Car goes into limp mode with the throttle open more than 50% in any gear above 3rd

Possible - Causes:
-Turbo - Turbo not likely -Dealer did smoke test, it failed - said wastage was open and sent confirmation photo - Did pass vacuum line tests. Waste Gate was stuck open, but when I put the car on the lift, the actuator appeared to be functioning and had vacuum. Called to confirm specks with Pure Turbos, started up, and ran drove the car and it is getting boost.

-Fuel - I read some forums about ethanol, specifically this one here (https://www.1addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1002296) - Although this is according to the JB4 guys, there was a problem causing the same symptoms that happened to be due to a “High Open Fuel Loop” when coded down lower, the problem was fixed. I don’t have a JB4 (Running MHD with Wedge Tune) - Is there a way to modify this?

-HPFP - After looking through forms and taking into consideration that there is only 37K miles on my car and most of the maintenance is on commonly known issues (Found Here -

) The only thing that has not been Replaced is the HPFP, Valve Cover, engine mounts and injectors.

Here is work that has all been done on the car in the last 5K Miles:

• Water Pump
• Oil Pan Gasket
• Oil Filter Housing Gasket
• Colder Stepped Spark Plugs
• Belt, Belt Tensioner Assembly, and idle rollers
• Crankshaft Seal
• Replaced a couple of leaky oil return hoses
• Upgraded to Pure Stage2 Turbo
• Turbosmart Diverter Valve
• Racewerks FMIC
• Wagner Catless Down Pipe
• 3.5 TMAP Sensor
• Charge Pipe (Aluminum)
• Turbo to Intercooler Pipe (Raceworks)
• Injen Air Intake System

I have been running an e30 Mix (91 OCT and E85) since the original tune 9 months ago, has never been an issue.

All of these mods were working perfectly and ran them hard on a Track day with no issues. This all happened 5 months after installs and a couple of thousand miles before problems.


Most Recent Log After trying to fix fueling issue - https://datazap.me/u/aefwolf/more-diagnostics?log=2&data=3-6-13-14

CODES WHEN TRYING TO DIAGNOSE:

The “X” is a multiplier for how many times I ran it and it showed up after

• clearing the codes
• - DME active codes -
• 2EE0 - Combustion misfires, several cylinders: Fuel injection deactivation. X 3
• 2EF4 - Combustion misfire, cylinder 6: Fuel injection deactivation. X 3
• 2EFE - Combustion misfires, several cylinders: Damaging to the catalytic converter or damaging exhaust gas. X 3
• 2F04 - Combustion misfire, cylinder 6: Damaging to the catalytic converter or damaging exhaust gas. X 3

- DME shadow (inactive) codes -

• 2EF7 - DME: Map thermostat, activation. X 4
• 2BDE - Fuel high pressure during fuel injection release: Pressure too low. X2
• 2BF0 Kraftstoffhochdruck bei oder nach Freigabe der Einspritzung (2. Umweltbedingungssatz nach Zeitverzögerung): Druck zu niedrig

CODES WHEN PROBLEMS STARTED
- DME active codes -

• 29D8 - Intake air temperature - charge air temperature, Comparison: Intake air temperature too high.
• 3447 - Engine oil level: Too low. - Fixed - Oil changed - Topped off - Full now
• 3792 - Engine cooling system: Coolant pump speed outside the tolerance. - Fixed - Water Pump replaced
• 2EE0 - Combustion misfires, several cylinders: Fuel injection deactivation.
• 2EEA - Combustion misfire, cylinder 3: Fuel injection deactivation.
• 2EF4 - Combustion misfire, cylinder 6: Fuel injection deactivation.
• 2EFE - Combustion misfires, several cylinders: Damaging to catalytic converter or damaging exhaust gas.
• 2F01 - Combustion misfire, cylinder 3: Damaging to catalytic converter or damaging exhaust gas.
• 2F04 - Combustion misfire, cylinder 6: Damaging to catalytic converter or damaging exhaust gas.
• 2C86 - Charging pressure - ambient pressure, comparison: Charging pressure too low.
• 290A - Intake air temperature sensor: Multiple fault.
• 2BDE - Fuel high pressure during fuel injection release: Pressure too low.
• 2BF0 Kraftstoffhochdruck bei oder nach Freigabe der Einspritzung (2. Umweltbedingungssatz nach Zeitverzögerung): Druck zu niedrig (High fuel pressure during or after the injection has been released (2nd set of environmental conditions after time delay): Pressure too low)

- DME shadow (inactive) codes -

• 2EF7 - DME: Map thermostat, activation.
• 2C7F - Boost pressure sensor. Multiple fault.

So is it the HPFP? If not what? Please Help.

[Petro135]

That is alot to take in. But I looked at your log. Your hpfp is fine. It looks like it never goes below 700psi which is idle psi and what your looking for. Check lpfp at idle should be 72 psi. It's not in your log. Hpfp after cold start should be in the 700psi range at idle. You have a timing correction in cyl4 but not that bad.
If I was you I'd move injectors around and code them and see if misfires move. You did alot of stuff but the basic misfire items I didn't see. Plugs, coils, injectors. You need to move those items around and see if any misfires move with them. Also monitor both your afr's could be an O2 sensor problem as well. But your only monitoring the 1st bank. Make sure they both run around the 14.7 mark and shoot up to 234 when you take your foot off the throttle.

[aefwolf]

Originally Posted by Petro135

That is alot to take in. But I looked at your log. Your hpfp is fine. It looks like it never goes below 700psi which is idle psi and what your looking for. Check lpfp at idle should be 72 psi. It's not in your log. Hpfp after cold start should be in the 700psi range at idle. You have a timing correction in cyl4 but not that bad.
If I was you I'd move injectors around and code them and see if misfires move. You did alot of stuff but the basic misfire items I didn't see. Plugs, coils, injectors. You need to move those items around and see if any misfires move with them. Also monitor both your afr's could be an O2 sensor problem as well. But your only monitoring the 1st bank. Make sure they both run around the 14.7 mark and shoot up to 234 when you take your foot off the throttle.

Ok, good points, the plugs have been done, the coils and injectors haven't, but there are only 37K miles on it, and it is an N55, so the Delphi coils and OEM injectors are usually not it, but at this point, I can pull them and check to eliminate them, and hold on to those parts for the future as the car will eventually need them.

Do you think a bad 02 sensor would cause this? That's a pretty easy fix. I will add that to the log on the next one to check. Those are the lambda banks pre and post cat correct??

[Petro135]

Originally Posted by aefwolf

Ok, good points, the plugs have been done, the coils and injectors haven't, but there are only 37K miles on it, and it is an N55, so the Delphi coils and OEM injectors are usually not it, but at this point, I can pull them and check to eliminate them, and hold on to those parts for the future as the car will eventually need them.

Do you think a bad 02 sensor would cause this? That's a pretty easy fix. I will add that to the log on the next one to check. Those are the lambda banks pre and post cat correct??

Yes afr 1 and 2 . Could be O2 or coils or maybe neither. But moving the coils around will let you know

[aefwolf]

Originally Posted by Petro135

Yes afr 1 and 2 . Could be O2 or coils or maybe neither. But moving the coils around will let you know

Ok, I topped the tank off with pump gas and put some fuel system cleaner, I am going to drive the car for like 60 miles tomorrow lightly to empty out most of the e85 left in the tank and get some good long logs with the o2 sensor. That should eliminate the fuel and o2 sensor issues if that it. (I don't think it's the o2 or fuel at this point, but this will give me some conclusive evidence to eliminate it.)

Thanks for the tips, I'll keep updating this form until this is solved.

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by aefwolf

Ok, good points, the plugs have been done, the coils and injectors haven't, but there are only 37K miles on it, and it is an N55, so the Delphi coils and OEM injectors are usually not it, but at this point, I can pull them and check to eliminate them, and hold on to those parts for the future as the car will eventually need them.

Do you think a bad 02 sensor would cause this? That's a pretty easy fix. I will add that to the log on the next one to check. Those are the lambda banks pre and post cat correct??

N55 injectors do go bad. Just not as often as N54. Especially cylinder 6 if running a cowl delete.

[aefwolf]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

N55 injectors do go bad. Just not as often as N54. Especially cylinder 6 if running a cowl delete.

Yea but at 37K miles on the car? I'm not saying it's impossible, but man seems early. If it is I will get to the bottom of it and put the culprit and solution in this forum. (No cowl delete BTW)

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by aefwolf

Yea but at 37K miles on the car? I'm not saying it's impossible, but man seems early. If it is I will get to the bottom of it and put the culprit and solution in this forum. (No cowl delete BTW)

Could be gummed up from sitting with ethanol. They usually leak after shut off. We will run the car till hot, quickly pull the coil an plug and send a boroscope down. A leaky injector will look like a snow storm. Will also cause wonky AFR from all the fuel in the oil.

Also, should replace your thermostat if the MAP portion is not working. Will be running too hot during aggressive driving. Or was that replaced with the water pump?

[aefwolf]

Originally Posted by Petro135

Yes afr 1 and 2 . Could be O2 or coils or maybe neither. But moving the coils around will let you know

Here are the logs with o2 sensor pre and post cat on freeway drive with warm engine (taken today)

https://datazap.me/u/aefwolf/diagnostics-part-2-02-sensor-reading?log=0&data=4-11-12-15-16

[aefwolf]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

Could be gummed up from sitting with ethanol. They usually leak after shut off. We will run the car till hot, quickly pull the coil and plug and send a boroscope down. A leaky injector will look like a snow storm. Will also cause wonky AFR from all the fuel in the oil.

Also, should replace your thermostat if the MAP portion is not working. Will be running too hot during aggressive driving. Or was that replaced with the water pump?

I see the MAP thermostat code come up on every single code read out, I don't believe it was replaced with the water pump, but I can go ahead and do that as well. Do you think that could be the cause of the issues though?

[aefwolf]

Originally Posted by Petro135

That is alot to take in. But I looked at your log. Your hpfp is fine. It looks like it never goes below 700psi which is idle psi and what your looking for. Check lpfp at idle should be 72 psi. It's not in your log. Hpfp after cold start should be in the 700psi range at idle. You have a timing correction in cyl4 but not that bad.
If I was you I'd move injectors around and code them and see if misfires move. You did alot of stuff but the basic misfire items I didn't see. Plugs, coils, injectors. You need to move those items around and see if any misfires move with them. Also monitor both your afr's could be an O2 sensor problem as well. But your only monitoring the 1st bank. Make sure they both run around the 14.7 mark and shoot up to 234 when you take your foot off the throttle.

I don't know if I am looking at the o2 sensors correctly, but from what I see on the logs is they range in between 1-2??? Am I missing something?

[aefwolf]

We are back in action, turned out to be the plugs and or coils. Here are the most recent logs after the tune has been re-installed.

https://datazap.me/u/aefwolf/everyth...26-27-28-29-30

Here is the moral of the story:
If limp mode occurs do this:

• 1. Turn off the car, wait 30 seconds and re-start. (Connect MHD or the like and Start logging ) - If the engine light is off and, try to re-create the problem while logging to catch the malfunction when it occurs.
• 2. If the problem does not come back, you are probably ok. Either way review logs.
• 3. If there are cylinder misfires, specifically one cylinder, pull the coil and spark plug and inspect it. If it looks ok, swap it with a different cylinder and make sure you mark them so you can keep track.
• 4. If the problem still persists, dig deeper into fueling issues starting with injectors, then HPFP then LPFP.
• 5. You can diagnose and test the HPFP from logs, if above 700 and not sticking at any constant level, it is probably not the HPFP.
• 6. If running any e85, it can gum up the injector. - Get a boroscope, pull a coil and plug after warming up the engine, and look for a snowstorm above the cylinder head, if you see one, the injectors are bad or gummed up. You can try and run some red line fuel system cleaner to see if that clears it up otherwise replace them.
• 7. I didn't get this far because I fixed my issue but the next step after diagnosing and clearing the two above referenced causes, you need to look for blockage or failure of the LPFP located directly above the back seat. Unfortunately MHD for e-series doesn't log this sensor so you have to do it by hand and physically inspect.
• 8. This is the same for 02 sensors (AFRs) and lambda bank 2 - You can only get lamda bank 1 afr for the e-series platform on MHD. So look at the logs to see if the o2 sensors themselves are getting readings. Mine appear to be functioning with a value between 1.4-2.45. If the O2 sensor has failed or is disconnected, there will be no reading and they need to be replaced.
  
• Anything beyond these steps could be a Vanos solenoid or a much larger internal engine problem. I hope this helps.

Hope this helps.

[Petro135]

You can log and monitor bank 1 and 2 afr and lpfp. That's how I knew my pump was hooked up incorrectly. Went in and found the 2 hoses that fill the bucket up laying in the tank, the little bracket that holds them broke off. Maybe when I shoved it in there I cracked it? I dunno
Good that you found your issue and fixed it. Nice job!! I seem to chase simple problems for weeks on my car

[aefwolf]

Originally Posted by Petro135

You can log and monitor bank 1 and 2 afr and lpfp. That's how I knew my pump was hooked up incorrectly. Went in and found the 2 hoses that fill the bucket up laying in the tank, the little bracket that holds them broke off. Maybe when I shoved it in there I cracked it? I dunno
Good that you found your issue and fixed it. Nice job!! I seem to chase simple problems for weeks on my car

What model car do you have, those options for logging for AFR 2 and lambda 2 are not available in MHD logging for my 135i ??? Am I missing a setting or something?

[aefwolf]

Originally Posted by Petro135

You can log and monitor bank 1 and 2 afr and lpfp. That's how I knew my pump was hooked up incorrectly. Went in and found the 2 hoses that fill the bucket up laying in the tank, the little bracket that holds them broke off. Maybe when I shoved it in there I cracked it? I dunno
Good that you found your issue and fixed it. Nice job!! I seem to chase simple problems for weeks on my car

I am actually curious to know this now. I can only get a readout from Lambda Bank 1 AFR, I know I have two 02 sensors pre and post-cat, I cannot even find a Lamda bank 2 setting on MHD with my car (2011 135i N55 DCT) which leads me to believe that for what ever reason I am getting a pre-cat read out at that's it.

Does anyone know why? Why can't I get readings from the 2nd 02 sensor?

[iminhell1]

Originally Posted by aefwolf

I am actually curious to know this now. I can only get a readout from Lambda Bank 1 AFR, I know I have two 02 sensors pre and post-cat, I cannot even find a Lamda bank 2 setting on MHD with my car (2011 135i N55 DCT) which leads me to believe that for what ever reason I am getting a pre-cat read out at that's it.

Does anyone know why? Why can't I get readings from the 2nd 02 sensor?

Because you only have one pre and one post O2 sensors. You won't get any bank 1 or bank 2.


http://bmwfans.info/parts-catalog/E8...probe_fixings/