[canucklion]

BLK325, your last post brought back memories from econ101, good post, I was like, "yip, I remember that, yip, that one too..."

[underDAWG]

Canadians always pay more than Americans, from electronics, clothing, cameras, to cars. In addition, their disposal incomes are often less than us. Just got back from Quebec City, the regular gas was 98 cent a liter. For some reasons, the Canadians are always happier than us. They don't bitch as much as Americans.

[canucklion]

and to follow up on BLK325's points, the relatively inflexible prices of those makes, i.e. MB, BMW, Lexus..etc in term results in a better resale values of the car, whereas in the case of GM, resale value really sucks ass when you can get a new one for thousands less than the MSRP.

[canucklion]

Originally Posted by underDAWG

Canadians always pay more than Americans, from electronics, clothing, cameras, to cars. In addition, their disposal incomes are often less than us. Just got back from Quebec City, the regular gas was 98 cent a liter. For some reasons, the Canadians are always happier than us. They don't bitch as much as Americans.

haha, we bitch sometimes, but we also appreciate how good we have it compared to the rest of the world, even though our gas prices are higher than yours, it's still the 2nd lowest (after US) amongst the western nations...

[underDAWG]

Originally Posted by canucklion

even though our gas prices are higher than yours, it's still the 2nd lowest (after US) amongst the western nations...

That is a prime example of the Canadians, they always look at the bright side.

[JoeBlack]

I find the BMW price structuring quite similar in all countries. Price difference can be attributed to individual governments adding tax and vat. In Ireland for example cars are double taxed, which is illegal according to EU law but they continue doing it because it provides the government with €1.2billion revenue per year. This is how they do it

Basic price from BMW €33,423.14 (330i SE)
then VAT at 21% €7,018.86
then VRT at 30% €14,958.00
RRP €55,400
on the road price €56,250.00

Once all the options are added the price rises to €67,115 or CAN$93,700 or US$80,000.

The same 330i with all the options possible will cost CAN$65,485 so if anyone is getting ripped off its the Irish! They would do anything to pay the bargain prices available in north America and many other European countries.

[flynn]

Isn't the simple answer that any manufacturer, not just of cars, will charge what the market will bear though in some cases they'll sell below cost for long-term strategic reasons.

In the UK there was a big problem on car prices relative to Europe a few years ago. Were various reasons for that including the cost of converting to RHD, traditionally higher dealer margins, tax, and because cars in the UK usually have a 3 year warranty. Car prices in the UK tend to be very negotiable. A lot of people in the UK have cars supplied by their company so the bulk buyer discounts of companies got balanced with higher prices for private buyers. Behind all that fog the manufacturers took the chance of bigger profits too.

Prices are now lower partly because the government leaned on the manufacturers but also because a lot of people started importing cars direct. Now it's usually cheaper to buy locally than import.

Juve29, can't Canadians just source their cars in the US?

[Juve29]

Originally Posted by flynn

Isn't the simple answer that any manufacturer, not just of cars, will charge what the market will bear though in some cases they'll sell below cost for long-term strategic reasons.

In the UK there was a big problem on car prices relative to Europe a few years ago. Were various reasons for that including the cost of converting to RHD, traditionally higher dealer margins, tax, and because cars in the UK usually have a 3 year warranty. Car prices in the UK tend to be very negotiable. A lot of people in the UK have cars supplied by their company so the bulk buyer discounts of companies got balanced with higher prices for private buyers. Behind all that fog the manufacturers took the chance of bigger profits too.

Prices are now lower partly because the government leaned on the manufacturers but also because a lot of people started importing cars direct. Now it's usually cheaper to buy locally than import.

Juve29, can't Canadians just source their cars in the US?

We could, but there's a heafty tax that we have to pay.

I don't know the amount exacly, people say it's just not worth it. It ends up costing more.

I'm not to sure though, maybe somebody else can elaborate more.

[flynn]

That's a bummer. Presumably, it's tax rates making a lot of the difference. Hope you get better services for your taxes.

[Airboy]

Originally Posted by Juve29

We could, but there's a heafty tax that we have to pay.

I don't know the amount exacly, people say it's just not worth it. It ends up costing more.

I'm not to sure though, maybe somebody else can elaborate more.

The import duty is 6.1% plus ~$200 fees at the border. 2006 BMWs can be imported into Canada without any modifications.

[duartebf]

Hello, I am new here, but if it matters, I´ve Payed 48500 euros (more or less 53400 US dollars)for my 2005 E90 320 diesel here in Portugal, so, for me, it is not at all TOO much expensive in Canada or US. If you need a good exemple, a 2005 BMW M3 costs about 90 000 euros here...
Regards
Duarte

[flynn]

Duarte, can't you import from the rest of Europe? In the UK we can get that car, base model, for 32,000 Euro and I think it's cheaper in Germany and some other countries. A lot of people used to import to the UK though that stopped because the prices are nearly the same now. I thought there was some sort of EU rule?

[JoeBlack]

oh there is definately some EU rule and coutries such as Ireland (and i presume many others including Finland) blatantly flout the law. If you import a car into Ireland you will pay VAT twice, for example you will pay VAT in Germany and then a further 21% in Ireland (this is illegal under EU law) and then they charge you30% Vehicle Registration Tax so in effect its more expensive than just paying the insane price in Ireland. You would think its easy to pop over the border in Northern Ireland and pay UK prices, not so the 'free market' doesnt inculde cars. I hope the EU fines them if they continue this practice.

[Juve29]

I started this tread a few months ago stating that we Canadians pay more for our BMWs than our American friends. Well today on Canadiandriver.com there is an article confirming my theory about Canadians paying more for cars than Americans.

Canadians pay 17% more for vehicles than Americans, analyst says


Richmond Hill, Ontario - A typical vehicle is priced 17 per cent higher in Canada than the United States when the exchange rate is factored in, says industry analyst Dennis DesRosiers. His report states that Canadians pay $5,842 more for an average vehicle.

"Many manufacturers obfuscate the equivalency issue by offering alternative trim levels or options packages in Canada and the U.S.," DesRosiers says, "but our study takes those potential differences into account by comparing base models and/or fully-loaded versions. The definition of 'base model' (or even 'loaded model') in each country can be very different, and this analysis does not take all of these differences into account. However, we think that it gets you into the ballpark. It's certainly close enough to understand price differentials between countries."

DesRosier's firm began doing this analysis in 1999, when vehicles were generally cheaper in Canada than in the U.S.; that year, the average Canadian vehicle was $3,167 (all figures Canadian) less expensive than its U.S. counterpart.

"To take this down to a more comprehensive level," DesRosiers says, "consider the case of the Subaru Impreza WRX. In Canada, this sporty sedan lists for $35,495, while in the U.S., it bases at $24,995…the U.S. price works out to $28,524 in Canadian currency. The Subaru WRX is 20 per cent more expensive in Canada than in the U.S., the price differential effectively moving it from the upper end of the 'Compact Sedan' category and into the meat of the 'Small Luxury' market."

The study found that only five 2006 models - the Pontiac Montana SV6, Toyota Corolla, Hyundai Elantra, Chrysler PT Cruiser Convertible and Hyundai Accent - were less expensive in Canada. DesRosiers attributes higher Canadian prices to a number of factors, including the value of stable pricing regimes (if prices drop too quickly, consumers will wait for the next decrease), a strong economy and vehicle markets that will pay the difference, manufacturers who purchase in their home market currencies and do not see any exchange rate advantages, and restoration of profitability.

Other key points in the study include:


GM, Ford and DaimlerChrysler passenger cars average $4,332 more in Canada, whereas import nameplates average $7,939 over U.S. pricing.

GM, Ford and DaimlerChrysler light trucks average $3,639 more in Canada, while import nameplates average $6,432 more.

High-volume vehicles have the most competitive cost structures, while lower-volume models are more likely to receive premium pricing, even if they are medium-to-high volume products in the U.S. "Needs basis" vehicles, such as entry level or midsize/family vehicles, generally have price differences under 10 per cent, whereas "aspirational" vehicles regularly carry Canadian premiums of 15 to 25 per cent.

General Motors offers the greatest parity between Canadian and American vehicle prices; DesRosiers says it is "uncommon for any GM vehicle to carry a price premium greater than five per cent."

Large/luxury/sport vehicles had the largest average price differentials, with the Chevrolet Corvette and Lexus LS430 marked up 25 per cent in Canada; small luxury had an average of 11.9 per cent, with only the Cadillac CTS, at four per cent, under a 10 per cent difference; sports cars had a 13.4 per cent difference, including the Mazda MX-5 at 18 per cent, Mini Cooper S at 18 per cent, and Acura RSX at 19 per cent. Large SUVs were 12 per cent higher, with the GMC Yukon at two per cent, Nissan Armada at 18 per cent and Toyota Sequoia at 22 per cent. Among intermediate SUVs, the Nissan Murano was the highest at 26 per cent more, the Ford Escape Limited at 21 per cent, while minivans were eight per cent higher in Canada and pickup trucks ten per cent.


You just have to configure the E90 at the BMW.ca with the same option as BMWUSA.com factor in the exchange rate and you'll notice that we pay about $7,000 more than the Americans. Thats higher than the average automaker.

[climkt]

u guys are quite lucky to be paying 35k and 45k for a e90 325i. our local boys and girls are paying just under 90k US for a e90 325i. i paid a whopping 68k US for my basic 320i manual.

[volinder]

Originally Posted by Juve29

73 000 USD that a lot of money.

In Canada we pay 15% sale taxe, so it's $45 000 plus 15% sales taxe, which comes out to almost $52 000.

No my friend you pay 15% sales tax. In my part of Canada (Alberta) we only be 7% (soon to be 6%). The price of being eastern Canadian

[volinder]

Originally Posted by Juve29

I started this tread a few months ago stating that we Canadians pay more for our BMWs than our American friends. Well today on Canadiandriver.com there is an article confirming my theory about Canadians paying more for cars than Americans.

Canadians pay 17% more for vehicles than Americans, analyst says


Richmond Hill, Ontario - A typical vehicle is priced 17 per cent higher in Canada than the United States when the exchange rate is factored in, says industry analyst Dennis DesRosiers. His report states that Canadians pay $5,842 more for an average vehicle.

"Many manufacturers obfuscate the equivalency issue by offering alternative trim levels or options packages in Canada and the U.S.," DesRosiers says, "but our study takes those potential differences into account by comparing base models and/or fully-loaded versions. The definition of 'base model' (or even 'loaded model') in each country can be very different, and this analysis does not take all of these differences into account. However, we think that it gets you into the ballpark. It's certainly close enough to understand price differentials between countries."

DesRosier's firm began doing this analysis in 1999, when vehicles were generally cheaper in Canada than in the U.S.; that year, the average Canadian vehicle was $3,167 (all figures Canadian) less expensive than its U.S. counterpart.

"To take this down to a more comprehensive level," DesRosiers says, "consider the case of the Subaru Impreza WRX. In Canada, this sporty sedan lists for $35,495, while in the U.S., it bases at $24,995…the U.S. price works out to $28,524 in Canadian currency. The Subaru WRX is 20 per cent more expensive in Canada than in the U.S., the price differential effectively moving it from the upper end of the 'Compact Sedan' category and into the meat of the 'Small Luxury' market."

The study found that only five 2006 models - the Pontiac Montana SV6, Toyota Corolla, Hyundai Elantra, Chrysler PT Cruiser Convertible and Hyundai Accent - were less expensive in Canada. DesRosiers attributes higher Canadian prices to a number of factors, including the value of stable pricing regimes (if prices drop too quickly, consumers will wait for the next decrease), a strong economy and vehicle markets that will pay the difference, manufacturers who purchase in their home market currencies and do not see any exchange rate advantages, and restoration of profitability.

Other key points in the study include:


GM, Ford and DaimlerChrysler passenger cars average $4,332 more in Canada, whereas import nameplates average $7,939 over U.S. pricing.

GM, Ford and DaimlerChrysler light trucks average $3,639 more in Canada, while import nameplates average $6,432 more.

High-volume vehicles have the most competitive cost structures, while lower-volume models are more likely to receive premium pricing, even if they are medium-to-high volume products in the U.S. "Needs basis" vehicles, such as entry level or midsize/family vehicles, generally have price differences under 10 per cent, whereas "aspirational" vehicles regularly carry Canadian premiums of 15 to 25 per cent.

General Motors offers the greatest parity between Canadian and American vehicle prices; DesRosiers says it is "uncommon for any GM vehicle to carry a price premium greater than five per cent."

Large/luxury/sport vehicles had the largest average price differentials, with the Chevrolet Corvette and Lexus LS430 marked up 25 per cent in Canada; small luxury had an average of 11.9 per cent, with only the Cadillac CTS, at four per cent, under a 10 per cent difference; sports cars had a 13.4 per cent difference, including the Mazda MX-5 at 18 per cent, Mini Cooper S at 18 per cent, and Acura RSX at 19 per cent. Large SUVs were 12 per cent higher, with the GMC Yukon at two per cent, Nissan Armada at 18 per cent and Toyota Sequoia at 22 per cent. Among intermediate SUVs, the Nissan Murano was the highest at 26 per cent more, the Ford Escape Limited at 21 per cent, while minivans were eight per cent higher in Canada and pickup trucks ten per cent.


You just have to configure the E90 at the BMW.ca with the same option as BMWUSA.com factor in the exchange rate and you'll notice that we pay about $7,000 more than the Americans. Thats higher than the average automaker.

BTW, I agree with you we pay way to much!!

[Asiann]

Aren't all Canadians receiving freee health care? That alone is enough to make up the difference.

[tjalt]

I guess one can import from the US. However, there's probably some agreement out there that BMW dealers can only sell to residents. Does anyone know?

[Asiann]

Wouldn't you still have to pay import taxes when you bring it into Canada?

[tjalt]

Originally Posted by Asiann

Wouldn't you still have to pay import taxes when you bring it into Canada?

Yes but I think it's less than the 25% or so differential.

[Refujeet]

The most important part of the article is in the first sentence, "when the exchange rate is factored in."

Did you miss the whole part (third paragraph) that cars used to be cheaper for us Canadians? Obviously a 45% appreciation in our currency against the USD will have a negative impact on compared car prices.

When/If the currency declines against the USD would you want them to raise our prices?