Suspension Upgrade Question

[akak1997]

The only suspension mods I've currently is a Hotchkis front sway bar and the Mason strut bar. It's a great improvment from stock. But after this mod, I notice the rear is getting a bit floatier and bouncy and on some uneven roads, I feel that one of the rear wheels has lifted a few times. I think this is caused by the stock suspension not reacting fast enough. it is as if the rear wheels aren't able to keep up with the ground. Body roll is still a bit excessive for my taste.

The 135 is my DD, but I think I've a high tolerance on harshness, and worst come to worst, I might be able to dial the dampers to full soft or something.

So, to fix this, I think I'm going to upgrade my suspension and I have around $3xxx (parts and labor) to do it. Currently, I'm looking into KW V3 with higher spring rate swift springs (front and rear), Vorshlag Camber plates, rear sway bar and M3 rear subframe bushing. I've heard some great review on this combo, and seems to fit the bill nicely. I still have not identified which rear sway to get, UUC? M3? H&R? suggestions? As for spring rates, I think I'm going to go with what Berk did to their V3.

Budget is pretty much fixed because I still want to save some money for the other M3 suspension parts, wider wheels/tires and a true LSD, I've got the 6-speed, so upgrading that part aren't cheap. But those probably won't come until late 2010.

I's also tempted to go with KW Clubsport but AFAIK, Clubsport and V3 uses the same strut, and since I'm upgrading springs and camber plates (IMHO, to better camber plates and springs), and it turns out to be approx the same price (like 1-200more than clubsport).

I've look at AST 4200, I'd love those hahaha, but too bad it's way out of my budget...

Another option is the Cross coilover, but it's only single adjustable. It's probably not important as I might not play with the adjustment that much, but having the extra adjustment option might be nice when I know what I'm doing.

TCKLine seems to be another good option but for that price, I might not be able to upgrade the rear sway and subframe bushing. Is that system that good to give up the other two mods? I also heard that TCKline is a bit harsher than V3.

So, what other setup would you guys recommend?

Thanks

[cpt97m3]

Originally Posted by akak1997

The only suspension mods I've currently is a Hotchkis front sway bar and the Mason strut bar. It's a great improvment from stock. But after this mod, I notice the rear is getting a bit floatier and bouncy and on some uneven roads, I feel that one of the rear wheels has lifted a few times. I think this is caused by the stock suspension not reacting fast enough. it is as if the rear wheels aren't able to keep up with the ground. Body roll is still a bit excessive for my taste.

The 135 is my DD, but I think I've a high tolerance on harshness, and worst come to worst, I might be able to dial the dampers to full soft or something.

So, to fix this, I think I'm going to upgrade my suspension and I have around $3xxx (parts and labor) to do it. Currently, I'm looking into KW V3 with higher spring rate swift springs (front and rear), Vorshlag Camber plates, rear sway bar and M3 rear subframe bushing. I've heard some great review on this combo, and seems to fit the bill nicely. I still have not identified which rear sway to get, UUC? M3? H&R? suggestions? As for spring rates, I think I'm going to go with what Berk did to their V3.

Budget is pretty much fixed because I still want to save some money for the other M3 suspension parts, wider wheels/tires and a true LSD, I've got the 6-speed, so upgrading that part aren't cheap. But those probably won't come until late 2010.

I's also tempted to go with KW Clubsport but AFAIK, Clubsport and V3 uses the same strut, and since I'm upgrading springs and camber plates (IMHO, to better camber plates and springs), and it turns out to be approx the same price (like 1-200more than clubsport).

I've look at AST 4200, I'd love those hahaha, but too bad it's way out of my budget...

Another option is the Cross coilover, but it's only single adjustable. It's probably not important as I might not play with the adjustment that much, but having the extra adjustment option might be nice when I know what I'm doing.

TCKLine seems to be another good option but for that price, I might not be able to upgrade the rear sway and subframe bushing. Is that system that good to give up the other two mods? I also heard that TCKline is a bit harsher than V3.

So, what other setup would you guys recommend?

Thanks

I'd go with the ASTs.

My second choice would be the TCKline's. You can choose the spring rates on those, and the shocks are adjustable, so they should ride fine if you get the softer rate springs. They will advise you on rates if you tell them what you are after. I'd give up a rear sway bar and rear bushings to get TCKlines or ASTs. Good shocks can really help a lot, and both those choices will work with off the shelf springs, so you can get any rates you want basically.

[akak1997]

Originally Posted by cpt97m3

I'd go with the ASTs.

My second choice would be the TCKline's. You can choose the spring rates on those, and the shocks are adjustable, so they should ride fine if you get the softer rate springs. They will advise you on rates if you tell them what you are after. I'd give up a rear sway bar and rear bushings to get TCKlines or ASTs. Good shocks can really help a lot, and both those choices will work with off the shelf springs, so you can get any rates you want basically.

How do you tell whether a shock is better than the other? And in what way? e.g. the range of adjustments are higher, like full soft = Lexus LS, full stiff = 911 GT3 RS? Just by the looks, the AST seems very well built, the TCKLine is Custom Koni, so it has the brand name guaranty, but that only tells me that they'll last and can handle a beating. But w/o some data, or facts, it's hard to convince me that AST > TCKLine > KW.

I kinda thought about going with the 5100, then upgrade it to 5300 (yeah! ) later down the road. That might be a good route as I'm planning to keep this car for a long time. However, I have not heard anything about the 5100 and what is involved in upgrading/re-valving it and also what the cost is nor how long it'd take (downtime) to perform the upgrade.

[Yearofthe1]

Stop worrying about that and get your arse over to Mason Engineering. He's going to be designing a rear strut tower brace and he needs your car!

JK man, but seriously, thanks for letting him use your car to develop the front bar. He does sound serious about the rear, so if you have the time, that would be cool. I'd do it but I live about 3000 miles too far.

[arrutled]

Originally Posted by akak1997

How do you tell whether a shock is better than the other? And in what way? e.g. the range of adjustments are higher, like full soft = Lexus LS, full stiff = 911 GT3 RS? Just by the looks, the AST seems very well built, the TCKLine is Custom Koni, so it has the brand name guaranty, but that only tells me that they'll last and can handle a beating. But w/o some data, or facts, it's hard to convince me that AST > TCKLine > KW.

I kinda thought about going with the 5100, then upgrade it to 5300 (yeah! ) later down the road. That might be a good route as I'm planning to keep this car for a long time. However, I have not heard anything about the 5100 and what is involved in upgrading/re-valving it and also what the cost is nor how long it'd take (downtime) to perform the upgrade.

+1

[cpt97m3]

Originally Posted by akak1997

How do you tell whether a shock is better than the other? And in what way? e.g. the range of adjustments are higher, like full soft = Lexus LS, full stiff = 911 GT3 RS? Just by the looks, the AST seems very well built, the TCKLine is Custom Koni, so it has the brand name guaranty, but that only tells me that they'll last and can handle a beating. But w/o some data, or facts, it's hard to convince me that AST > TCKLine > KW.

I kinda thought about going with the 5100, then upgrade it to 5300 (yeah! ) later down the road. That might be a good route as I'm planning to keep this car for a long time. However, I have not heard anything about the 5100 and what is involved in upgrading/re-valving it and also what the cost is nor how long it'd take (downtime) to perform the upgrade.

You can really only tell by running them. It's not a range of adjustment issue. The rebound damping on a shock should be set to the spring rate you are running. Stiffer springs need more rebound. Higher end shocks often have less adjustment, because the are designed for stiff springs, and to let them be dialed in exactly with small adjustment increments. Most people running ASTs & Motons aren't going to be running stock springs, so they don't need to worry about valving them for stock springs. Koni yellows however need to work with stock springs. But Koni yellows won't work as well for the stiff race only springs. ASTs and Motons can be valved any way you want also, then the adjustment is just for fine tuning.

On my E36 M3, I've had Koni yellows, Koni Doubles (Custom), and TCKline/Koni doubles. I'm now running AST 5200's that replaced the TCKlines, and I can tell you for sure the AST 5200's are better than the TC Klines. But they are a lot more money also, and I doubt it would matter much for a street car. But it might matter to some.

Mostly it's the internals of the shock that matter, and for whatever reason, you have to pay a lot of money to get a really good shock.

[akak1997]

cpt97m3, Thanks for the info that helps a lot!

I think I'll stick with KW V3 and upgrade the springs for now since I'll be keeping it as a street car.

[akak1997]

Originally Posted by Yearofthe1

Stop worrying about that and get your arse over to Mason Engineering. He's going to be designing a rear strut tower brace and he needs your car!

JK man, but seriously, thanks for letting him use your car to develop the front bar. He does sound serious about the rear, so if you have the time, that would be cool. I'd do it but I live about 3000 miles too far.

As for the rear strut bar, last time I heard from Mason is when he's on vacation. Not sure he gotten back yet. Or maybe he's working hard to fill those orders for the front bar... But either way, I won't have time to go work on the rear bar until mid Sept...

[Yearofthe1]

Originally Posted by akak1997

As for the rear strut bar, last time I heard from Mason is when he's on vacation. Not sure he gotten back yet. Or maybe he's working hard to fill those orders for the front bar... But either way, I won't have time to go work on the rear bar until mid Sept...

Yeah, he's been back for about a month. He just shipped my front bar to Vorshlag on Monday for its powder-coating.

September would be awesome, better then than never. Thanks bro!