Walnut blasting complete...

[GarrettF]

Originally Posted by shah269

ONLY in the German cars.
Sadly....and i do have to say this is rather sad....GM has a solution it's called correct timing. Toyota just went with an extra injector on the outside of the intake valve for start up cleanings.
Both work very well.
BMW/Auid
we are screwed....and no it's not covered and good luck getting a class action case.

interesting

[shah269]

YUP! Cadi figured out if the do the timing just right...a little bit of the unburned mixture reverse washes the intake before the intake is closed and the combustion cycle starts.
I think Toyota was doing the dinky extra injector for start up and that cleaned the plume rather well.......

this leave BMW and Audi with their thumbs firmly up their buts passing the bill on to anyone who buys their DI engines.

The only case we would have is if a piece of unburned carbon were to rock loose and make it's way down to the catalytic converter and burn the thing out.
THEN and only then would we maybe have a case.

Till then they just count on you either paying $300+ to have the nut blasting, selling the car before it needs a good nut blasting or bitching and bitching and then buying a new car.

These guys are not car guys, they are not engineers....they are accountants first and litigation lawyers second.

[08LMB135i]

Originally Posted by shah269

YUP! Cadi figured out if the do the timing just right...a little bit of the unburned mixture reverse washes the intake before the intake is closed and the combustion cycle starts.
I think Toyota was doing the dinky extra injector for start up and that cleaned the plume rather well.......

this leave BMW and Audi with their thumbs firmly up their buts passing the bill on to anyone who buys their DI engines.

The only case we would have is if a piece of unburned carbon were to rock loose and make it's way down to the catalytic converter and burn the thing out.
THEN and only then would we maybe have a case.

Till then they just count on you either paying $300+ to have the nut blasting, selling the car before it needs a good nut blasting or bitching and bitching and then buying a new car.

These guys are not car guys, they are not engineers....they are accountants first and litigation lawyers second.

Actually GMs direct injection engines still have carbon issues but its no where near as bad as BMW and Audi.

[Dafttt]

Relevant

Not too happy with BMW on this one. Had the same problem with my B7 2.0T FSI.

This needs to be addressed.

[1ToBeOn2Wheels]

My parent's Lexus has this problem, but they are covered under warranty for it. $600 for this service sounds like a lot. I would shop around. My trusted shop (performancetechnic.com) does it for $350.

[jester17]

Originally Posted by uberschnell

Go do a little research on Direct injection Carbon build up (hint, it's not just BMW's). Fuel quality has nothing to do with this.

FWIW, it's the cleanliness of gas I believe(d) is crucial....not quality.

And in terms of additives, I'm just curious (in an ironic way: "Empty contents into empty tank"; get it?) if folks here use the STP FSC, or Seafoam, or something similar, and if they/you experience any results. From what I've seen having reviewed several different car forums (Audi, Lexus, Merc., etc.) there's a real mix of both opinion and use when it comes to these products....

[uberschnell]

Originally Posted by jester17

FWIW, it's the cleanliness of gas I believe(d) is crucial....not quality.

And in terms of additives, I'm just curious (in an ironic way: "Empty contents into empty tank"; get it?) if folks here use the STP FSC, or Seafoam, or something similar, and if they/you experience any results. From what I've seen having reviewed several different car forums (Audi, Lexus, Merc., etc.) there's a real mix of both opinion and use when it comes to these products....

What difference would the fuel make in this case?

[jester17]

Well, if the gas has more additives -- one of the Top Tier fuels -- would that not lead to less build up? Isn't that why BMW, Audi, Toyota, and all the other Top Tier-recommending companies recommend those fuels?

[08LMB135i]

Originally Posted by jester17

Well, if the gas has more additives -- one of the Top Tier fuels -- would that not lead to less build up? Isn't that why BMW, Audi, Toyota, and all the other Top Tier-recommending companies recommend those fuels?

If its direct injected fuel will never flow over the valves so in that sense fuel is irrelevant.

[drewnel22]

Originally Posted by golf_234

On older style motors air and fuel are mixed in the accumulator, then the mixture is vacuumed into the cylinder through the intake valves. the fuel keeps the valves clean. In direct injection, only air passes through the intake valves, and the fuel is injected directly into the cylinder from a different line. power gains significant, but the downfall is that with just air, gunk builds up on the intake valves and has to be cleaned periodically. worth it imo.

Originally Posted by jester17

Well, if the gas has more additives -- one of the Top Tier fuels -- would that not lead to less build up? Isn't that why BMW, Audi, Toyota, and all the other Top Tier-recommending companies recommend those fuels?

Answer is above, fuel doesn't affect it.

[jester17]

Ok, thanks for bearing with me... I was thinking that the condition of the fuel was causing the carbon build-up, hence, the need for a cleaner gas.

[golf_234]

Originally Posted by jester17

Ok, thanks for bearing with me... I was thinking that the condition of the fuel was causing the carbon build-up, hence, the need for a cleaner gas.

nope, unfortunately just part of life for owners of DI motors. It is a maintenance item 100%. some people complain, but personally the performance and dynamic of the motor i would say i think are worth it for having to put in a little elbow grease here and there. it's whatever. pulling off an intake manifold isnt too difficult and you can diy this. just one more thing we have to clean in life haha

[GarrettF]

Originally Posted by 1ToBeOn2Wheels

My parent's Lexus has this problem, but they are covered under warranty for it. $600 for this service sounds like a lot. I would shop around. My trusted shop (performancetechnic.com) does it for $350.

cheapest closeset to me is VAC motorsports in Philly, they were $101 less but at nearly 200 miles round trip at $4.xx a gallon it becomes nearly a wash

[shah269]

You want the honest answer?
You are not going to like it...
I have a very good friend who works for Volva USA as a product manager.
And you know how Volvo people hold on to their cars till the onwer is dead...
Well per the last meeting he had with his higher ups and industry experts..
They honestly don't want cars to last past 50k miles.
So they have a choice, engineer this problem away....easy to do with the addition of a little injector in the plume....AKA water/meth injection cleaning method.
Or....have the care just fall off and have you come back in 5 years/50k miles and buy a new car.

Or we could all write a letter to BMW USA regarding the issue?

[GarrettF]

Originally Posted by shah269

You want the honest answer?
You are not going to like it...
I have a very good friend who works for Volva USA as a product manager.
And you know how Volvo people hold on to their cars till the onwer is dead...
Well per the last meeting he had with his higher ups and industry experts..
They honestly don't want cars to last past 50k miles.
So they have a choice, engineer this problem away....easy to do with the addition of a little injector in the plume....AKA water/meth injection cleaning method.
Or....have the care just fall off and have you come back in 5 years/50k miles and buy a new car.

Or we could all write a letter to BMW USA regarding the issue?

$500-600 every 50,000 miles for maintenance isn't that bad. This issue was not causing the car not to last or die. It is a fixable problem with a little maintenance every 30-50k miles... not too bad IMHO

[doublevanosrc]

Originally Posted by shah269

You want the honest answer?
You are not going to like it...
I have a very good friend who works for Volva USA as a product manager.
And you know how Volvo people hold on to their cars till the onwer is dead...
Well per the last meeting he had with his higher ups and industry experts..
They honestly don't want cars to last past 50k miles.
So they have a choice, engineer this problem away....easy to do with the addition of a little injector in the plume....AKA water/meth injection cleaning method.
Or....have the care just fall off and have you come back in 5 years/50k miles and buy a new car.

Or we could all write a letter to BMW USA regarding the issue?

Interesting but i guess we're not surprised, companies just want consumers to buy buy.

[PrematureApex]

Originally Posted by GarrettF

cheapest closeset to me is VAC motorsports in Philly, they were $101 less but at nearly 200 miles round trip at $4.xx a gallon it becomes nearly a wash

Helix in Manayunk (just outside Philly) is $350. Almost makes it not worth it for me to do myself.

[cheshirecat79]

Originally Posted by shah269

You want the honest answer?
You are not going to like it...
I have a very good friend who works for Volva USA as a product manager.
And you know how Volvo people hold on to their cars till the onwer is dead...
Well per the last meeting he had with his higher ups and industry experts..
They honestly don't want cars to last past 50k miles.
So they have a choice, engineer this problem away....easy to do with the addition of a little injector in the plume....AKA water/meth injection cleaning method.
Or....have the care just fall off and have you come back in 5 years/50k miles and buy a new car.
Or we could all write a letter to BMW USA regarding the issue?

The average life for a vehicle in the US is 12 years or 200k miles. Many manufacturers use that 200k rule as a goal to hit before major service (such as an engine rebuild) is required.

While I don't doubt you heard that story about cars being engineered to last until 50k, I seriously doubt that outlook on a corporate level.

These vehicles are too expensive and the competition is too tough for planned obsolescence at that low of a mileage. Whoever embraces that kind of strategy would see their vehicles irrelevant within a generation.

This is a $300-$700 service that should be done once every 60k miles. $1500 over the lifetime of the vehicle is not that big of a deal. I agree that BMW needs to address the issue with one of the many fixes out there, but they aren't trying to gum up your engine on purpose.

[shah269]

It won't kill the car...it will make the car less of a fun ride.
But it's a slow decrease in power...you will not notice it.
So at 50k miles / 5 years when you go in to "check out new cars" what ever you get into will feel better.
So they know of the problem, they know a good number of people either lease their cars or just won't get the nut blasting done and so..........
in 5 years 50k miles you show up take a new 3 seires for a drive and think...WOW! I LOVE THIS CAR! IT'S SO ALIVE!
And you walk away from your old car and into a new one.
Sure the car will do 200k miles....but at 50k miles...you will love the new car even more.
Sad right? Knowing they know you better than you know you? It's called CRM ....and well if you own your car and want 100k miles of constant power....you are not their C and they have no R or M for you

[Adam135]

I did this at 34k and it was worth every penny. $350 at LTBMW in El Monte, CA. Rental car is also provided free of charge.

[GarrettF]

Originally Posted by PrematureApex

Helix in Manayunk (just outside Philly) is $350. Almost makes it not worth it for me to do myself.

News to me... Now i feel like i got robbed

[GermX-85]

Originally Posted by Adam135

I did this at 34k and it was worth every penny. $350 at LTBMW in El Monte, CA. Rental car is also provided free of charge.

How long was the turn around?