Verified Endemic FLAW at 135i Dealership Introduction in Munich

[Propagator]

Originally Posted by ZweierCoupe

All kinds of trivial debates take place on this forum. The debate about this issue is healthy also for BMW because it provides valuable feedback for free at such an early stage, where early mistakes can still be corrected before they get really overblown.

I agree. With the usual topics like leather vs leatherette, predicted severity of rattle and squeaks, and license plate lighting, I don't see why this topic deserves to be flamed as being trivial.

Granted, the topic title is a bit sensationalist, but I for one have always been curious about those gaps. In fact, back when all we had was a few spyshots, some of us interpreted those gaps on the spy car as the sign that the headlamps would be redesigned for the coupe. That is until someone (was it Brookside?) pointed out that they also existed on the hatch.

I doubt if they are production flaws, but I also fail to see what purpose they serve as a design element. What aesthetic statement does a simulated misaligned hood make? :iono: How does that relate to the "surface entertainment" theme of recent BMWs? After two pages, I am yet to see a convincing explanation.

[Will L.]

"To remedy this the entire dies for the side panels (one piece that goes from fron to rear lights) will evetually have to be modified to bend the fron tips slightly more inwardly."

1. Assuming this is even a "flaw", wouldn't it be easier to slightly change the shape of the headlight lens rather than changing the die for the side panels (and based on what I see, likely the die for the hood also)?

2. If my life ever becomes so empty that I need to look for things like this when I'm looking at a car . . . I think I'll just step in front of a bus.

[larryn]

Originally Posted by Garyhoov

2. If my life ever becomes so empty that I need to look for things like this when I'm looking at a car . . . I think I'll just step in front of a bus.

[Will L.]

Originally Posted by gimme135

The second flaw you mentioned I'm not sure exactly where. Is it this gap above the headlight lens? Would a simple redesigning/reshaping of the plastic lens solve it? I sure hope they would because that's the ugliest part of the whole car! ...in my opinion.

I didn't see your post until I posted mine, but, yes, if anyone at BMW really thinks this is a problem, they could re-shape the headlight relatively easily . . . and may do so by the time production cars actually start showing up.


. . . but I doubt that something that is so obvious we can see it in photos like this is a flaw rather than an intentional design choice.

[larryn]

Hey! Maybe it's a design element to keep the headlight washers from spraying blue water all over your freshly cleaned hood. :wink: :biggrin:

[joelk]

this thread kills braincells.

[atr_hugo]

Bear in mind this has been in production since 2004 and the vehicle has undoubtedly undergone extensive wind-tunnel testing. If it were a problem BMW would have rectified it by now.

The effect of a 'flaw' (this gap) on airflow would be critical, especially on the nose of the vehicle. A manufacturer will eek every available fraction of fuel consumption savings they can and would remedy anything that would prevent that, within reason (and short of giving us the 200 mpg carb they have locked away in their company safes ; -).

[ZweierCoupe]

Originally Posted by 1ster

Right. BMW isn't smart or resourceful enough to (a) notice the problem and (b) get it corrected with their parts supplier? Are you really making this argument?

No. They must have certainly recognized the problem a while ago, but there are various options on what to do about it:

(a) Cheapest route - Ignore the issue and pretend it was all an intentional design quirk to challenge conventions. This tactic may help to hold down the fort while other options continue to be explored.

(b) Modify the headlights and maintain the same style for all 1-series cars, which would be much cheaper (in terms of acquisition and spare parts inventory) than having two separate headlights. The problem here, as I've already written, is that a modified headlight might no longer fit with the hatches or make it look awkward.

(c) Modify the headlights and maintain two separate production runs. This option would allow BMW to also make other modifications to further distinguish the coupé from the hatchback. In turn, such additional design changes would need to be explored farther.

(d) Keep the headlights and change the dyes for the sheet metal.

Of course BMW has the resources to do any of these things, but it still cost money in some way or another; even if they decide to do nothing there are implicit costs and risks that are more difficult to quantify. If they choose to make modifications, there's the marketing issue, of when to introduce the changes, at what time (before it's introduced to America? after a year? in conjunction with the convertible?), and how best to get away with introducing a face lift during the early production phase without too much embarrassment.

[Imola.ZHP]

Wow, I hadnt even noticed that "flaw."

Now I wish I had never looked at this thread...

But, I seriously doubt it would keep me from buying the car. But if the door sticks out from the body, yeah, that would keep me from buying the car...

[135SF]

Originally Posted by larryn

Hey! Maybe it's a design element to keep the headlight washers from spraying blue water all over your freshly cleaned hood. :wink: :biggrin:

Another rationale : an auxilliary to the engine cooling system. limp mode no more

[1ster]

Originally Posted by 135SF

Another rationale : an auxilliary to the engine cooling system. limp mode no more

I originally thought this argument might have some teeth, but this photo shows that there is a rubber gasket that would prevent any airflow over the headlights from reaching the engine.

[cracka]

I like the gap; I think it adds an element of interest to the front. Too smooth & sculpted just reminds me of an '86 Taurus, and that look is still so pervasive these days.

Then again, I also like the amber reflectors and a moonroof, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

I'm more bothered by the framing of the main air intake, and how it looks like a funhouse clown smile... but I'm over that. :wink:

[Imola.ZHP]

I was thinking about this while working...

Is the same gap on the hatch? If so, then yeah, you can expect it in production coupes...

Unless I'm crazy and the coupe and the hatch do not share body parts from the a-pillar forward (which could be likely, I dont pretend to know everything)...

[ZweierCoupe]

Originally Posted by spinzero

What aesthetic statement does a simulated misaligned hood make? :iono:

Your average Joe-Blow-Sixpack consumer dude probably wouldn't care about seemingly minor stuff like this, but I think amongst industry insiders and car enthusiasts this is an interesting issue. If it should turn out that this flaw (to use the shortest possible word) will soon be corrected without much ado then the potential early buyer will have to decide whether he cares about possibly getting stuck with what will eventually be reagrded as an early production flaw or wait for the corrected version. As I said, the BMW sales representative at the presentation event conceded it was a flaw rather than saying it was an intentional design feature, which is why I chose the word "Verified" for the title of this thread. Had the intent of the design of a new series making its debut in the US really been to challenge convention (I just don't buy that line) then the sales people would have been instructed in advance to say this and we would have already read about it in the press releases.

[BForbes]

-Yawn- I dont see any surprises. We've noticed the gap since day one. Does it bother me? No. Are strangers going to walk up to me everytime I park and ask me what the hell happened. No.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by joelk

this thread kills braincells.

Indeed...

[BMWeber]

Originally Posted by larryn

Hey! Maybe it's a design element to keep the headlight washers from spraying blue water all over your freshly cleaned hood. :wink: :biggrin:

I'd buy that........but then again I've killed a lot of brain cells reading this thread so what do I know:biggrin:

[ZweierCoupe]

Originally Posted by ZweierCoupe

(d) Keep the headlights and change the dyes for the sheet metal.

Perhaps I should have elaborated in my Post (#52) on what this would entail in order to emphasize that this option is highly unlikely and thus more theoretical. Minor modifications to the dies for the hood and side panels would need to be made. Each large sheet metal part goes through a very expensive automated press made by Müller Weingarten in various stages. At each stage an initially flat piece of cut sheet metal gets progressively deformed by passing through various stamping steps until it attains the final shape. I think there are four or five prior stamping steps, under extremely high pressure. Each step entails two dies, male and female.

Taking the worst case scenario (six stamping steps) would mean 6x2x3=36 dies that need to be changed just slightly. Additionally, each of the three sheet metal parts would have to be cut just a bit differently. Aside from the additional costs, there are also re-engineering tasks associated with a modification like this, plus all the costs of maintaining the spare part inventory for the next couple of decades. You can imagine that this scenario is not likely to happen to fix a minor flaw like the oversized gap.

However, an additional option for BMW, that I didn't mention, would be:

(e) Quietly acknowledge the mistake without much fanfare when asked about it, swallow a bit of deserved ridicule, but score points for being open and forthright about it(after all, the other German premium competitors make mistakes too), then state categorically and unequivocally that the mistake is too small to warrant any modifications to the headlights, and then proceed to plan for the next facelift perhaps a year earlier than had been envisioned.

[ghusheshe]

Originally Posted by ZweierCoupe

(e) Quietly acknowledge the mistake without much fanfare when asked about it, swallow a bit of deserved ridicule, but score points for being open and forthright about it(after all, the other German premium competitors make mistakes too), then state categorically and unequivocally that the mistake is too small to warrant any modifications to the headlights, and then proceed to plan for the next facelift perhaps a year earlier than had been envisioned.

And you think BMW gives a hoot about your suggestions.. Give a rest now will you...:mad::mad::mad:

[kere]

Originally Posted by imola.zhp

Is the same gap on the hatch? If so, then yeah, you can expect it in production coupes...

http://www.babybmw.net/forum/garage....d&image_id=990
http://www.babybmw.net/forum/garage....y&image_id=354

[EniLab]

Originally Posted by kere

http://www.babybmw.net/forum/garage....d&image_id=990

Thanks for posting this, kere!

In this pics it can be clearly seen the INTENTIONAL design feature I was talking about: the concave upper edge of the headlight cluster. It's not a "flaw", it's not a "poor execution" ... It's done intentionally. Look at the left headlight cluster in the pic - and imagine it without concave upper edge, but with convex one: the cluster would appear bulbous. Yet now it flows nicely with the hood panel, and creating hood overhang over the cluster for more aggressive appearance.



So, ZweierCoupe, give it a rest now. Your point was made: you do not like this feature. Period. Now it's time to move on.


Btw, do you even dare to look in the mirror in the morning since you are so picky & being such perfectionist? :wink:

[R32]

i'd have to guess that this design element has to do with air movement over the headlight fixture. perhaps allowing the water that hits the headlamp to progress up further over the curve of the top of the fixture keeps it cleaner, and allows water to be pushed out the side.

if the headlamp were really flushed up with the hood, unless there was a seal there, there'd probably be some water remaining in that gap even at speed. as it is now, air pushes the water past the gap.:iono: