e9x M3 front and rear end swap

[Traf]

Originally Posted by ilikebmxbikes

That is very interesting. So you are saying a standard 135i shaft can be adjusted with the central bearing and just by bolting the v8 flange to the n54 shaft it bolts up? This is absolutely new information. Everyone prior, myself included all got custom shafts made.

What was your issue with the diff? I have had an m3 diff for years and have only had good success with it.

Na, you still need to cut, weld and balance as the V8 flange can't be bolted to the 135i shaft. I'm just saying that the lenght is not that important because of the adjustability, 1325mm or 1339mm will work in all cases.

The shaft i used was not mine actually, it was a N55 135i shaft that i got for cheap, in case i screwed it up, i didn't want to be left with no shafts.
And so i told the guy to leave the front part alone, cut and weld to 1339mm total lenght. Knowing that it was supposed to be too long for my N54.

When i went to bolt everything up, it was very nice to see that it is so adjustable, that the difference in lenght between the N54 and N55 gearbox actually makes no difference.


As for my diff, it barely locks, and has a ton of play on the right output flange. So i'm switching to a E39 M5 redone to 2way 45/45% of lock, a real torque sensing symmetrical flanges diff, instead of the speed sensing GKN assymetrical flanges bullshit.

[ilikebmxbikes]

Originally Posted by drwillb

Bikes and Traf, the item you are calling a V8 flange is actually a full CV joint connection vs the stock 135 simple 50mm nut coupler thing.

I've got one those CV joint flanges for sale. BNIB. I was going to rebuild the M3 shaft that I bought.

Anyone interested? M3 driveshaft and/or CV joint for sale

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1443492

the driveshaft is not listed in that post but I have it.


**Traf: great contribution on that driveshaft conversion. Too late for me, but others will benefit.

What ultimately did you spec your shaft length to? Im likely going to get a carbon shaft made for my second 1er. It would make my life a lot easier to have a proven final length so I can order a shaft and have it on hand prior to swapping the rear subframe so the car will be down a lot less time.

[Traf]

Originally Posted by drwillb

Bikes and Traf, the item you are calling a V8 flange is actually a full CV joint connection vs the stock 135 simple 50mm nut coupler thing.

I've got one those CV joint flanges for sale. BNIB. I was going to rebuild the M3 shaft that I bought.

Anyone interested? M3 driveshaft and/or CV joint for sale

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1443492

the driveshaft is not listed in that post but I have it.


**Traf: great contribution on that driveshaft conversion. Too late for me, but others will benefit.

Lol yes it is a CV joint, i used a M5 E60 shaft as donor for the CV joint.

[drwillb]

Originally Posted by Traf

As for my diff, it barely locks, and has a ton of play on the right output flange. So i'm switching to a E39 M5 redone to 2way 45/45% of lock, a real torque sensing symmetrical flanges diff, instead of the speed sensing GKN assymetrical flanges bullshit.

So the problem is not that the M3 diff lacks performance, It's that your diff (as I expect mine to be) is tired and needs the clutch plates replaced and, while you're in there, tweak ramp angles and lock up rates.

[ilikebmxbikes]

Originally Posted by Traf

Na, you still need to cut, weld and balance as the V8 flange can't be bolted to the 135i shaft. I'm just saying that the lenght is not that important because of the adjustability, 1325mm or 1339mm will work in all cases.

The shaft i used was not mine actually, it was a N55 135i shaft that i got for cheap, in case i screwed it up, i didn't want to be left with no shafts.
And so i told the guy to leave the front part alone, cut and weld to 1339mm total lenght. Knowing that it was supposed to be too long for my N54.

When i went to bolt everything up, it was very nice to see that it is so adjustable, that the difference in lenght between the N54 and N55 gearbox actually makes no difference.


As for my diff, it barely locks, and has a ton of play on the right output flange. So i'm switching to a E39 M5 redone to 2way 45/45% of lock, a real torque sensing symmetrical flanges diff, instead of the speed sensing GKN assymetrical flanges bullshit.

I see what you are saying now. So you built it long and could shorten it by adjusting by the center support bearing.

[Traf]

Originally Posted by drwillb

So the problem is not that the M3 diff lacks performance, It's that your diff (as I expect mine to be) is tired and needs the clutch plates replaced and, while you're in there, tweak ramp angles and lock up rates.

You can't to that to the OEM M3 diff man, thats what i'm saying.
It is a viscolok gkn speed sensing diff, there is no ramps and no lock up rates to tweak.
It has a pump that activates from the speed difference between the two axles, the fluid from the pump then passes in a piston that presses against the clutches and locks the diff.

[Traf]

Originally Posted by ilikebmxbikes

I see what you are saying now. So you built it long and could shorten it by adjusting by the center support bearing.

Absolutly !
As for you carbon shaft frankly the best solution is to measure the distance with a stick.
The CV joint will still provide you with a little bit of adjustability anyway.

[drwillb]

Originally Posted by Traf

You can't to that to the OEM M3 diff man, thats what i'm saying.
It is a viscolok gkn speed sensing diff, there is no ramps and no lock up rates to tweak.
It has a pump that activates from the speed difference between the two axles, the fluid from the pump then passes in a piston that presses against the clutches and locks the diff.

Freakin' BMW has to make everything difficult. Things used to be so simple with e30 and e36 M3.

[Traf]

Hey ilikebmxbikes, i thought the difference in lenght between the N55 and N54 gearbox was 14mm ? I see you are using 12mm in your calculations.

[ilikebmxbikes]

Originally Posted by Traf

Hey ilikebmxbikes, i thought the difference in lenght between the N55 and N54 gearbox was 14mm ? I see you are using 12mm in your calculations.

My calculation was just made by comparing the difference between the n54 and n55 driveshaft. Then comparing that to the 1m shaft.

[Traf]

Originally Posted by ilikebmxbikes

My calculation was just made by comparing the difference between the n54 and n55 driveshaft. Then comparing that to the 1m shaft.

I wonder if there is a difference in lenght between the insert nut and guibo type shafts.

[ilikebmxbikes]

Originally Posted by Traf

I wonder if there is a difference in lenght between the insert nut and guibo type shafts.

my number was only 2mm off what VTL measured and what he had made.

[drwillb]

I finally sat down to start ordering the parts for the rear end part of the conversion. My plan is to buy stock quarters, cut the flare section off, and graft them onto the stock rear quarters. Thanks to all those that have come before me I'm even thinking of doing the cut and initial fit myself then send it off to finish.

As if this wasn't expensive enough to start with, I just found out that the small repair quarter panels are NLA. The right side is listed as NLA and the left is listed as none available so it's just a matter of time before that gets changed to NLA.

Fortunately, the medium sized panel is still available. However, these are listed for $1100 vs. the $511 that the small panels listed for. Yup, $1k extra just got burned.

I've been through this with the e30 M3s but I was ahead of the curve on getting parts for those. BMW actually sent a letter out to all dealers worldwide asking they ship all EVO parts in their possession back to Germany. They then made it so that you could only buy EVO parts with proof of ownership (registration) for an actual EVO car.

I can see this happening with 1M parts as more and more fenders, quarters, and bumpers are bought for converting regular E82s.

[James stewart]

Interesting read I'm just doing some research into changing over the hub carriers from an m3 to my 135 and came across your thread.

I've got a question can you use the 135i suspension with the m3 hub carriers?
I basically want to use the m3 carriers so I can use a set of AP racing brakes on the front of my car, which I can't seem to find for the 135i just m3

[drwillb]

Originally Posted by James stewart

Interesting read I'm just doing some research into changing over the hub carriers from an m3 to my 135 and came across your thread.

I've got a question can you use the 135i suspension with the m3 hub carriers?
I basically want to use the m3 carriers so I can use a set of AP racing brakes on the front of my car, which I can't seem to find for the 135i just m3

James, I'm not sure what the answer would be to your question since I was only concerned about doing a full M3 swap. I do have a feeling that the shock tube diameter will be different and will cause a problem. 135 being smaller than M3.

[James stewart]

Originally Posted by drwillb

James, I'm not sure what the answer would be to your question since I was only concerned about doing a full M3 swap. I do have a feeling that the shock tube diameter will be different and will cause a problem. 135 being smaller than M3.

Thanks for the reply I suppose I will have to do some more research

[drwillb]

Status update:

1. got the M3 subframe assembled and ready to plug and play

2. all parts for rear bodywork are now sitting in my storage unit. As per BillDaCat's build, I added the inner quarters to the buy list in order to have factory wheel housings. What's another $500 at this point. All the rear bodywork is getting farmed out.

3. my valve cover gasket (possible cracked valve cover?) is leaking intermittently and things are getting messy. I've also assembled all the parts for valve cover gasket, plugs, coils, OFH gasket, pulleys, serpentine belt, vacuum lines, DP, and, what the hell I'm in so deep already, PS1 turbo.

Just need time and I can't buy that.

[Traf]

Originally Posted by James stewart

Interesting read I'm just doing some research into changing over the hub carriers from an m3 to my 135 and came across your thread.

I've got a question can you use the 135i suspension with the m3 hub carriers?
I basically want to use the m3 carriers so I can use a set of AP racing brakes on the front of my car, which I can't seem to find for the 135i just m3

I don't see why you couldn't, every M3 bit works on the 135i.
Only difference is the toe arm, which i believe is not attached in the same position between M and non M subframes.

Originally Posted by drwillb

Status update:

1. got the M3 subframe assembled and ready to plug and play

2. all parts for rear bodywork are now sitting in my storage unit. As per BillDaCat's build, I added the inner quarters to the buy list in order to have factory wheel housings. What's another $500 at this point. This part is getting farmed out.

3. my valve cover gasket (possible cracked valve cover?) is leaking intermittently and things are getting messy. I've also assembled all the parts for valve cover gasket, plugs, coils, OFH gasket, pulleys, serpentine belt, vacuum lines, DP, and, what the hell I'm in so deep already, PS1 turbo.

Just need time and I can't buy that.

Dayum man nice ! i just finished my 1M conversion, made the mistake of not using the inner wheel arches... But whatever it works anyway
Good luck !

[mistawall]

Originally Posted by drwillb

Status update:

1. got the M3 subframe assembled and ready to plug and play

2. all parts for rear bodywork are now sitting in my storage unit. As per BillDaCat's build, I added the inner quarters to the buy list in order to have factory wheel housings. What's another $500 at this point. All the rear bodywork is getting farmed out.

3. my valve cover gasket (possible cracked valve cover?) is leaking intermittently and things are getting messy. I've also assembled all the parts for valve cover gasket, plugs, coils, OFH gasket, pulleys, serpentine belt, vacuum lines, DP, and, what the hell I'm in so deep already, PS1 turbo.

Just need time and I can't buy that.

i want to know who you end up using for the driveshaft.

[drwillb]

Originally Posted by mistawall

i want to know who you end up using for the driveshaft.

For simplicity and zero downtime I went with a brand new factory 1M driveshaft.

According to several posts, this will work with N55 cars but not N54 because of a difference in transmission lengths. The 1M is N54 with an N55 tranny.

However, look above at post #67, the tranny difference may be a non-issue.

Don’t ask me about length. I did not need to make that a factor in my build but there are several posts with that info.

[mistawall]

Originally Posted by drwillb

For simplicity and zero downtime I went with a brand new factory 1M driveshaft.

According to several posts, this will work with N55 cars but not N54 because of a difference in transmission lengths. The 1M is N54 with an N55 tranny.

However, look above at post #67, the tranny difference may be a non-issue.

Don't ask me about length. I did not need to make that a factor in my build but there are several posts with that info.

Oh haha duh I actually read that post where you mentioned that

[Matticus91]

Looking great! Will have to keep a closer eye on this build