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09-29-2011, 10:18 AM | #155 | |
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To cooler. I only mentioned Kersher because they are the cheapest. Personally I do not plan on buying any of them. Which is why I said the argument is im not spending $900 on anything that will get broken after 2 days of use.
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:edit: Also remember what companies, such as iCarbon and Fiber Optix before them, said before these initial group buys? They get one guy to give them a car that guy says yay this thing is awesome, then 1 year later they run off after pissing off many people and stealing people's cash and time. Im just saying that this is a lot of money to throw into a product that a) is dumb and b) is sight unseen. Youre just taking this companies word and the word of one guy on the forum that this is a good product. Its a risky investment considering the track records of companies that have started their CF lives in this manner. :end edit: Also, if I was spending $900 on the front of my car why would I get a lip when for $400 more (which is the argument being thrown out there) I can have a brand new widebody front end from ER racing? Or for $900 I could get a BMW Performance front bumper and have it painted. Do you understand my point about prices? Lips should be 4-500 dollars maximum and I dont understand why people are willing to spend so much when for nearly 1K you can have a whole host of other functional, better looking pieces. IE my OZ Ultras (payed just under 1K for the set) or Apex ARC 8s, a BMW perf bumper, A new cat back exhaust from many manufacturer,s almost every engine tune available, a new intercooler, Charge pipe/Methanol/DVs kit, intake boxes, 4 brand new tires for whatever wheels you already own, BMW M front suspension pieces, 2/3s of an LSD if you have an automatic, a set of Koni Yellows, a BMW Perf steering wheel, an SSK and a new clutch to handle the power youre throwing down from smartly investing your money in mods that make a difference , and the list goes on. Ill continue it here A driver's school, 4 1/2 track days at $200 a day, 18 autox days at $50 a day, round trip airfare to Europe, if youre Bill Caswell you can buy 1 4/5 of a WRC rally car...and the list keeps going still albeit in a slightly silly fashion So you understand why I dont want to spend that much cash on a lip? When I can have any one of the listed things that will actually do things for me instead of pissing me off the first time I back down a driveway??? ^those are things that id much rather spend my hard earned $1000 on personally Last edited by BrokenVert; 09-29-2011 at 10:30 AM.. |
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09-29-2011, 10:20 AM | #156 | |
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If you have a high quality CF manufacture near you, feel free to get a quote on a similar front lip including the R&D and molding process. Add the cost of making a few prototypes and you will quickly find out that $1000 isn't bad and that is if you can sell 30+ just to break even. Sure, SleK can price it higher, but the market won't support it. |
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09-29-2011, 10:24 AM | #157 | |
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$250 doesn't even pay the labor work fo 2-3 guys working in Southern California the full day to get one lip done, are you kidding me! |
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09-29-2011, 10:26 AM | #158 | |
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On second thought...don't answer that....because as a vendor I don't think you can answer it subjectively |
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09-29-2011, 10:29 AM | #159 | |
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Go through the process for a quote and you will find out. |
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09-29-2011, 10:33 AM | #160 | |
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also 1) why would it take 2-3 guys to do it? 2) assuming your labor rate is about $120 an hour. So why is this taking 2-3 man hours to accomplish? Am I missing something? Also, like I said my argument is against spending nearly $1000 on something that doesnt enhance anything and will get broken in the real world within a week. |
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09-29-2011, 10:36 AM | #161 | |
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My point is, there is no other lip on the market for our cars that provides the same type of quality and design that SleK has come out with on this lip. Other than 3D Design which is even more expensive because it is made in Japan. The reason as posted above by another person is why SleK is not outsourcing the product to China and offering it for 500$. Because they do not want any kind of issues with their products. Not having any issues means you need to be able to over see the quality control of your products which you cannot do unless your facility is local. If any kind of fitment problem comes up then SleK can easily fix it because they are right next to where all their products are made. So yes the lip will cost more because labor and materials are more expensive here but you will be guaranteed to get a quality product. SleK isn't trying to deceive us or anything like iCarbon by saying their stuff is high quality, no fitment problems, etc etc when it actually has all those issues because they manufactured in China. |
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09-29-2011, 10:39 AM | #162 | |
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What Harold is implying is that you need to hire skilled workers that have certain knowledge and traits about manufacturing this stuff. Here is the low end estimation: 3 workers, 15$ per hour 8 hours a day = $360. That is JUST labor for 1 lip. What about materials? What about research and development such as hiring a designer, creating a mold, test fitment, electricity, machines, etc........ |
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09-29-2011, 10:42 AM | #163 | |
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Its not apples to oranges at all. Im simply saying all of the awesome things that I can buy instead of this for the same amount of money. You cant claim to want to make functional improvements to the car and not want to improve the suspension (its easily the most horrid part of the factory car) Looks are subjective I have always preferred the BMW perf front end to stock. Ok and I bet you werent around then. But iCarbon's main tag line was we arent Fiber Optix. iCarbon also claimed to be in Miami and Fiber Optix was based in New Jersey. So what country its from has absolutely no bearing on my opinion or decision. Do you see the parallels? and until we see actual production pieces whose to say what the quality and fitment actually are. Im not putting up $900 because one anonymous guy on a forum posted photos of a preproduction piece and said it was good. |
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09-29-2011, 10:42 AM | #164 | |
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Sorry I should have said Ojectively: Uninfluenced by emotions or personal prejudices I understand R&D and all of the work involved....but the price for the part is NOT to pay for R&D. It is the perceived notion that those in the market for said parts have more disposable (or non-disposable for some) income and can "afford" to pay those prices. By your logic there should be comparable R&D costs involved with other makes (Subie, Evo, whatever else you may choose) and their initial price point should be in the same range IF it has nothing to do with Brand cachet... |
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09-29-2011, 10:44 AM | #165 | ||
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And dont talk to me like im unexposed to the CF making process. Im an aero engineer and I know, and have personally made, pieces out of Carbon Kevlar, Carbon Fiber, and several other composite materials. So I know exactly what goes into it. Quote:
Them wanting $900 is because thats "what everyone else charges" there is fault to that logic as this community has complained for years that prices are too high. |
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09-29-2011, 10:48 AM | #167 | |
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Would you work for free? I'll be more than happy to put you to work. Last edited by HP Autosport; 09-29-2011 at 11:30 AM.. |
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09-29-2011, 10:50 AM | #168 | |
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You're missing the point. Any company can say they are from the country they are based off of but where they manufacture the product is the most important part. Manufacturing the product = quality control, materials, skilled labor which are the most important parts of getting a good product. Why do you think there is no official group buy thread and SleK isn't taking anyone's money? I posted this earlier so if you would have read the thread then you would have seen it. The lip has been sent out to the molding process and once the mold comes back then I will receive a call to drive down and have them test fit the first production lip. Which will also have pictures posted and etc. Once again I will repeat it: SLEK IS NOT TAKING ANYONE'S MONEY UNTIL FITMENT IS CONFIRMED. P.S. I actually like this healthy discussion because it keeps everything in the air and people don't realize what it takes to manufacture quality stuff. |
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09-29-2011, 10:52 AM | #169 | |
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09-29-2011, 10:57 AM | #170 | |
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When I first made this thread people asked me what cost would be so I asked SleK and their response was that they cannot give me an exact price because they haven't finished the prototype or sent it out to molding yet but they said they will try to keep it around iCarbon MSRP as best as they could. Now that the prototype has been finished and a mold is being created they have a good sense of what it would cost them to make the lip and take into the account every other variable that they have. They are charging 900+ MSRP because of the quality of the product and process it takes to make it. Could they charge less? Sure, any company can charge less. But making only say 5% profit on a product is not sustainable for a company. |
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09-29-2011, 10:57 AM | #171 | |
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I am not bashing you. I am saying that you cannot give the same answers or have the exact same point of view as us OBJECTIVELY, because you are invested in the part we are discussing here. To be honest it is not just the SleK lip...it is for MANY of the parts available for BMW, Audi, Mercedes...etc, etc...I mean Harold the M3 suspension upgrade kit you sell is almost as expensive as this one little CF piece...I still believe the price is driven up in part because of the brand of vehicle and not as you mention R&D(at least a large %). To be honest I HOPE they sell a lot of these lips...maybe they can then recoup their R&D costs and drop the price (like that is a reality) |
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09-29-2011, 11:02 AM | #172 |
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this takes me back to the RPi scoop fiasco of 2008 on E90post.
$199 for a set of scoops and the basis of the price was "R&D cost $15000". WTF are you doing for R&D for that much money, looking over aerodynamics... at NASA? People need to think cheap overhead and sell cheap (with quality products of course). I realize the market equilibrium comes into effect but you can also sell MORE at a lower price which would net you the same earnings (theoretically). Maybe they just don't have enough confidence in the fact they'll sell enough to turn a profit. |
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09-29-2011, 11:03 AM | #173 | ||
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You are missing my point entirely. If it isnt the as for sale piece that I could buy tomorrow if I wanted to it is a per-production piece.
Therefore I cant trust its quality. Have you heard of the rumors that car makers give journalists tweaked pre-produciton cars to test? Anybody can lie. Its how Ferrari keeps being considered fuel efficient. The point being this piece may be nicer because it wouldve been worked on for longer or made with extra care because its the first one shown with quality dimming due to higher demands. Or the finished product could be better. You proved that point yourself! The point being im not trusting that much money into it. And the first pieces to actually be inspected wont be until the group buy is taken and the intial run is delivered. So yes. Id be investing my cash sight unseen of a product that costs 7-900 dollars. Again! I am comparing things that I can have for the same price as this lip that are actually functional. Its a list of things id rather put my $900 and i think ive pretty well explained my rational. And you said it yourself. You said that the price of $900 was good on the last page because iCarbon products were $900 and they were of superior quality. Thats a classic sales line that just doesnt fly with me. The rational of that statement is that the price is ok because this guy sold theirs at it and our product is better, so ha! :edit: here is is quoted for you Quote:
It just makes no sense to me. Quote:
Last edited by BrokenVert; 09-29-2011 at 11:10 AM.. |
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09-29-2011, 11:11 AM | #174 | |
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And what was the outcome? Now RPi sells their scoops at half of what they originally wanted
heres the link if you dont believe me http://www.wstoshop.com/servlet/the-...duction/Detail Quote:
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09-29-2011, 11:15 AM | #175 | |
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Well, I do not know the specifics of the group buy since I am not a vendor or associated with SleK so I am just going to assume the following: Since it takes them 1 whole day to make 1 lip, it is going to be on a first come first serve basis. So unless you are top 3 on the list you will not be giving your money and receiving a product that no one else has seen except myself and SleK. So you can sit on the side line and wait until the first few people receive their lips since they won't all be shipped out at the same time and will be a first come first serve basis and make your judgements then. But honestly if HP Autowerks / Harold is supporting SleK and putting his reputation on the line for them then you know it is a quality product. Harold is one of the few vendors in our community that provides exceptional customer service and knowledge. This isn't SleK's first rodeo, they created this brand to cater to the BMW crowd. If you really want specific history and links to other products I am sure SleK would be more than happy to provide it. Or next time I am visiting I can just take a picture of the 150k Porsche Panamera Turbo that they have sitting in the facility having its hood and etc cut up to have a kit created for it. If someone is trusting a company with 150k+ prototype vehicles then you know it is the real deal. |
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09-29-2011, 11:21 AM | #176 | |
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1. I am willing to believe in SleK just a wee bit more just because Harold/HP are involved. That being said I still don't like the price 2. I believe they are a company...and they intend to do this. But just like I mentioned above Vorsteiner is the real deal as well and STILL had fitment issues. I guess we really will have to wait until some people receive a production finished lip. |
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