BMW 1 Series Coupe Forum / 1 Series Convertible Forum (1M / tii / 135i / 128i / Coupe / Cabrio / Hatchback) (BMW E82 E88 128i 130i 135i)
 





 

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      02-14-2018, 01:57 AM   #375
bbbbmw
Major General
2012
Rep
5,644
Posts

Drives: 135i
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Southwest

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
According to the bible - God tortures people to test their faith in him. There are a lot of stories about the strongest believers losing everything and it being played off as "a test".
Few weeks ago in my neighborhood , a 2 year old baby girl died from leukemia . The poor little child didn't even got the time to find out what faith in God was !
Yeah right...Gods test is awesome !
Where did the child's soul/being go when it died? Do you think God shunned it? Where do all of us go when we die, regardless of age? Should you be blaming God, or the devil, or the will of mankind?
__________________
<OO (llll)(llll) OO>
Appreciate 0
      02-14-2018, 01:59 AM   #376
bbbbmw
Major General
2012
Rep
5,644
Posts

Drives: 135i
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Southwest

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Incontinentia Buttocks View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaaQaf View Post
Overthinking an answer is when you go full circle in thought not being able to answer the question like you have done. What is the construct of religion ?

Its not difficult to answer at all. G-d does what He wills. Furthermore you are thinking sentimentally not logical. Why not say human beings rather than children ?
You're leaping ahead of yourself. Let's take your premise of "God does as he wills". Why did your God create a parasite that infects children and burrows its way out through their eyeballs?
Why do you think God created a parasite that harms people? Why don't you think Satan did that?
__________________
<OO (llll)(llll) OO>
Appreciate 0
      02-14-2018, 02:04 AM   #377
bbbbmw
Major General
2012
Rep
5,644
Posts

Drives: 135i
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Southwest

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by fravel View Post
Y'all are oversimplifying. God doesn't torture people. What he does do is allow bad things (even things that might be considered torturous) to happen without intervening.

The doctor who takes a brain-dead patient off of life support isn't killing them, but they are allowing them to die.

It's subtle, but there's a difference.
No I don't believe I am and I don't agree with your analogy.

This is why I have a hard time reading the Bible and with religion in general and I'm not just picking on Christians here. They say God is all loving all merciful, but then teach stories like this from the Bible. It portrays God as a very maladjusted adult that is extremely narcissistic. This doesn't correlate for me and just shows me that the Bible (and other holy books) was/were written by men with human traits and emotions. Not the word of God IMO, but the word of man from their view point.
The same narcissistic God who spent thousands of years telling people that He loves them, and pleading for people to reconcile with Him, so they wouldn't spend an eternity separated from Him? The God who finally sent his son to die, so that mankind could be offered a path to reunite with God, if they choose to do so?

That narcissistic guy?
__________________
<OO (llll)(llll) OO>
Appreciate 1
SakhirM46733.50

      02-14-2018, 02:12 AM   #378
bbbbmw
Major General
2012
Rep
5,644
Posts

Drives: 135i
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Southwest

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
I believe you are referring to Job whose faith was tested by Satan, not God, although God allowed it with the caveat that Satan would not take his life. No matter what Satan did, Job would not renounce his love of God and in the ended, God rewarded him by restoring his fortune and giving him twice as much as he had in the beginning.

God did not torture Job. God protected and rewarded him.
God told the Devil to do anything to Job to test his faith short of killing Job himself. Satan killed all of his kids, all of his servants, all of his livestock, and gave him painful sores all over his body... all with God's blessing.

If you want to try and say that was not God torturing him then be my guest...
You really should read the book of Job.... you sound like his friends. God used Job as an example for all of mankind. And God did well by Job in the end, and I'll bet in the afterlife as well. In fact, I'm willing to bet that God brought all of Job's wives, children, etc. to be with Him when they died. And, the reality is, Job and all of his families ultimately died - and God most likely gathered them all to be with Him.

Spoiler Alert: here's the Epilogue:


10 After Job had prayed for his friends, the Lord restored his fortunes and gave him twice as much as he had before. 11 All his brothers and sisters and everyone who had known him before came and ate with him in his house. They comforted and consoled him over all the trouble the Lord had brought on him, and each one gave him a piece of silver[a] and a gold ring.

12 The Lord blessed the latter part of Job's life more than the former part. He had fourteen thousand sheep, six thousand camels, a thousand yoke of oxen and a thousand donkeys. 13 And he also had seven sons and three daughters. 14 The first daughter he named Jemimah, the second Keziah and the third Keren-Happuch. 15 Nowhere in all the land were there found women as beautiful as Job's daughters, and their father granted them an inheritance along with their brothers.

16 After this, Job lived a hundred and forty years; he saw his children and their children to the fourth generation. 17 And so Job died, an old man and full of years.
__________________
<OO (llll)(llll) OO>

Last edited by bbbbmw; 02-14-2018 at 02:32 AM.
Appreciate 0
      02-14-2018, 04:34 AM   #379
LobB
Banned
2371
Rep
5,823
Posts

Drives: M135i
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Manchester

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
Why do you think God created a parasite that harms people? Why don't you think Satan did that?
I was under the impression that God created everything. And everything that happens is God's will.
Appreciate 1
minn193085.50

      02-14-2018, 08:57 AM   #380
Zlaatan
Captain
Sweden
521
Rep
858
Posts

Drives: RWD
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Sweden

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaaQaf View Post
Shadow is used interchangeably with illusion. It is a very much established theory and wide spread.

https://theunboundedspirit.com/5-min...s-not-so-real/
Since I can't understand everything of what they're saying I have to ask, where in that link does it confirm that your shadow theory about our reality is an established fact?

When you say established theory btw, do you mean that as a simple theory or a scientific theory? My take on that article points very much to the former.


Nonetheless, let's say that this reality is a shadow of the "real" reality. Can the real reality be self sufficient? Couldn't we make the exact same arguments for the real reality as we have done for the shadow one? Can we even make an argument about the real reality when none of us has observed it? Or should we just not have a giant rabbit hole discussion and put it all to bed?..

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaaQaf View Post
That is not being self designed. Being self designed is having no association with another in order to produce an effect.
I've made myself more than clear about this, my point is that the universe as we see it changes because of things happening within it. We have an explanation for how it looks and why it looks the way it does (in most cases), and none of it requires a designer/will.
Appreciate 0
      02-14-2018, 09:17 AM   #381
MKSixer
Brigadier General
7829
Rep
4,688
Posts

Drives: 2015 BMW i8, E63 M6, 328d
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Southeast United States

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2016 M4 GTS (Allotted)  [0.00]
2013 BMW 328d  [0.00]
2007 BMW M6  [5.00]
2015 BMW i8  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zlaatan View Post
Since I can't understand everything of what they're saying I have to ask, where in that link does it confirm that your shadow theory about our reality is an established fact?

When you say established theory btw, do you mean that as a simple theory or a scientific theory? My take on that article points very much to the former.


Nonetheless, let's say that this reality is a shadow of the "real" reality. Can the real reality be self sufficient? Couldn't we make the exact same arguments for the real reality as we have done for the shadow one? Can we even make an argument about the real reality when none of us has observed it? Or should we just not have a giant rabbit hole discussion and put it all to bed?..



I've made myself more than clear about this, my point is that the universe as we see it changes because of things happening within it. We have an explanation for how it looks and why it looks the way it does (in a few cases), and none of it requires a designer/will.
FTFY.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtodd_fl View Post
Hell, I get random sausage attacks when I go anywhere.

@[Nyet. Not Russian Hacker](contact:368080)
Ask me hacker question. Hacker question I get answer.
Appreciate 1
SakhirM46733.50

      02-14-2018, 09:44 AM   #382
Zlaatan
Captain
Sweden
521
Rep
858
Posts

Drives: RWD
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Sweden

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirdaft1 View Post
Zlataan, I appreciate you asking questions. They are welcome. Mind if I share a quick scenario relating to your question?

What if this all-powerful, all-knowing, ever present Being whom is far beyond any human comprehension understood that you would have a very difficult time comprehending Him? So in an effort to help you and I understand, he sent a much simpler version of himself down in a far simpler form... as a fellow man. This Man then spoke in very easy to understand 101 level language (ie: parables) providing the “Cliffs Notes/TLDR” version of what you needed to know right now (Just trust Him, he’ll make sense of the rest later)? This Man then performed incredible miracle after miracle after miracle on others whom had nothing, serving them with humility and love. And to seal the deal... this Man backed His claims by cheating death (not in some Evel Kneivel way, but by ACTUALLY dying and then coming back days later in an event that is documented by both supporters and those deeply against this Man?). To me, this would make for an incredibly compelling case. And for me, it did. Upon further investigation I found that it actually required MORE blind faith for me NOT to believe than to believe the claims of Christ. (Check out Josh McDowell’s “Evidence that Demands a Verdict”. It helped serve as a starting point in my investigation with many similar, rational and challenging questions).

One last thing, the irony with this thread is that MANY of those posting in this thread whom are vehemently opposed (dare I say ‘offended’) by the claims of Christ, would be incredible followers of Christ. Seriously. You care enough about asking extemely challenging questions, you conduct due diligence and you’re not timid to tell others about your beliefs (just don’t be the bullhorn guy if you ever do become a bro or sis in Christ, it’s a bit embarrassing for us all). Unfortunately, for many Christians in today’s society, we’ve had the luxury of becoming comfortably numb... complacent in our faith and convictions. Too afraid to engage with others in a post modern world full of relativism. We need more passionate and outspoken warriors to spread this inconvenient Truth with the world).

That said, I appreciate the dialogue in this thread. Props to MKSixer for helping keep it civil. And while I’m far from a scholar on the topic, I’d be glad to share insights/answer questions on some of the particular “obstacles” that I had to overcome in my faith.
I would like to say that I appreciate the dialoge in this thread as well, it's surprisingly (or maybe not that suprisingly when I think about it) much more civil than the rest of this sub-forum, which is refreshing. It's downright scary friendly to be an internet discussion about religion, that's for sure..

However, I'm afraid that you are going to have to count me out of becoming a future fellow Christian though. I'm very interested in the topic but it's more because I'm interested in why people believe what they believe and how they reason, not because I'm on the fence about what I believe to be true or not.
Like I said in the other thread, even if I was wrong and the Christian god was real and wanted a relationship with me I would gladly turn him down simply based on the way he's chosen to construct his whole system. It's madness all the way through imo.. but that's just me.

Anyway, what's interesting is that the thing you describe as a compelling case for an incomprehensible being is to me a very unplausible story. I think that something like what you describe should require extraordinary evidence, and a book just doesn't do it. Even if it would, why should we believe the bible and not the quran or some other scripture instead? They all depict the "truth" depending on who you ask.
Appreciate 2
minn193085.50
sirdaft11810.00

      02-14-2018, 09:47 AM   #383
Zlaatan
Captain
Sweden
521
Rep
858
Posts

Drives: RWD
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Sweden

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
FTFY.
What would you include in those few cases?
Appreciate 0
      02-14-2018, 09:56 AM   #384
MKSixer
Brigadier General
7829
Rep
4,688
Posts

Drives: 2015 BMW i8, E63 M6, 328d
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Southeast United States

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2016 M4 GTS (Allotted)  [0.00]
2013 BMW 328d  [0.00]
2007 BMW M6  [5.00]
2015 BMW i8  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zlaatan View Post
What would you include in those few cases?
The few things that we can confirm experimentally relative to the overall size of the universe. A few. That's it.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtodd_fl View Post
Hell, I get random sausage attacks when I go anywhere.

@[Nyet. Not Russian Hacker](contact:368080)
Ask me hacker question. Hacker question I get answer.
Appreciate 0
      02-14-2018, 10:14 AM   #385
Zlaatan
Captain
Sweden
521
Rep
858
Posts

Drives: RWD
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Sweden

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
The few things that we can confirm experimentally relative to the overall size of the universe. A few. That's it.
So the shape of planets, the light of the stars, colors, rivers, the feathers of an owl's wings, the teeth of a great white, a heart.. I could literally go all day. We know why most things look the way they do, there's just no two ways about it.
Appreciate 0
      02-14-2018, 10:14 AM   #386
bbbbmw
Major General
2012
Rep
5,644
Posts

Drives: 135i
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Southwest

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Incontinentia Buttocks View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
Why do you think God created a parasite that harms people? Why don't you think Satan did that?
I was under the impression that God created everything. And everything that happens is God's will.
God allows things to happen.

He gave man free will ("creating man in His image").

Man chose, and all of us choose to separate from God in favor of our unhealthy pursuits/motives.

Since the first man made this choice, God has had open arms hoping to welcome us back to Him. He finally sent His son, to show show everyone how serious He is.

Since then, man (all of us) have rejected this offer.

God sees the bigger picture of eternity. To Him, death can either be a homecoming, or an eternal separation from Him. He clearly doesn't want that.
__________________
<OO (llll)(llll) OO>
Appreciate 0
      02-14-2018, 10:33 AM   #387
minn19
Brigadier General
minn19's Avatar
United_States
3086
Rep
4,010
Posts

Drives: 18 M3, 16 F150,
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Minnesota

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
The same narcissistic God who spent thousands of years telling people that He loves them, and pleading for people to reconcile with Him, so they wouldn't spend an eternity separated from Him? The God who finally sent his son to die, so that mankind could be offered a path to reunite with God, if they choose to do so?

That narcissistic guy?
Yup that one to, there are a lot of contradictions in his behavior. I look at it as a whole and a bunch of us have already replied about what you posted here.
Appreciate 0
      02-14-2018, 10:52 AM   #388
LobB
Banned
2371
Rep
5,823
Posts

Drives: M135i
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Manchester

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
God allows things to happen.

He gave man free will ("creating man in His image").

Man chose, and all of us choose to separate from God in favor of our unhealthy pursuits/motives.

Since the first man made this choice, God has had open arms hoping to welcome us back to Him. He finally sent His son, to show show everyone how serious He is.

Since then, man (all of us) have rejected this offer.

God sees the bigger picture of eternity. To Him, death can either be a homecoming, or an eternal separation from Him. He clearly doesn't want that.
So hold on.

I can spend my life raping, looting and dining with Don Trump and still get into heaven?
Appreciate 1
      02-14-2018, 10:53 AM   #389
///M Power-Belgium
Major General
///M Power-Belgium's Avatar
Belgium
16892
Rep
9,977
Posts

Drives: ///M3-DCT- E92 Silverstone II
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
Where did the child's soul/being go when it died? Do you think God shunned it? Where do all of us go when we die, regardless of age? Should you be blaming God, or the devil, or the will of mankind?
I blame no one , because there is nothing when our lights go out..
But *IF* there is a God , I would surely blame him ! Knowing we are talking about a innocent 2 year old baby girl !
__________________
BPM DEV-Tune & DCT software update & Servotronic & coding///Alpine HID Angeleyes///Oem.exhaust mod.
Appreciate 0
      02-14-2018, 10:56 AM   #390
MKSixer
Brigadier General
7829
Rep
4,688
Posts

Drives: 2015 BMW i8, E63 M6, 328d
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Southeast United States

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2016 M4 GTS (Allotted)  [0.00]
2013 BMW 328d  [0.00]
2007 BMW M6  [5.00]
2015 BMW i8  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zlaatan View Post
So the shape of planets, the light of the stars, colors, rivers, the feathers of an owl's wings, the teeth of a great white, a heart.. I could literally go all day. We know why most things look the way they do, there's just no two ways about it.
Lol. This proves that you don't understand how are and expansive the universe is or how complex our own living environment is. We don't know most things...only a few. Only arrogant presumption would allow one to think otherwise. For your consumption:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...ear-alone.html
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtodd_fl View Post
Hell, I get random sausage attacks when I go anywhere.

@[Nyet. Not Russian Hacker](contact:368080)
Ask me hacker question. Hacker question I get answer.
Appreciate 0
      02-14-2018, 11:12 AM   #391
minn19
Brigadier General
minn19's Avatar
United_States
3086
Rep
4,010
Posts

Drives: 18 M3, 16 F150,
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Minnesota

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Incontinentia Buttocks View Post
So hold on.

I can spend my life raping, looting and dining with Don Trump and still get into heaven?
Not too mention God knew humans would make the choices they since he supposedly gave us freewill and created us in his image. Which is a scary though in itself. It is a design that was setup to fail IMO.
Appreciate 0
      02-14-2018, 11:20 AM   #392
Ali Shiralian
Lieutenant Colonel
Ali Shiralian's Avatar
Canada
729
Rep
1,927
Posts

Drives: 2014 335i xdrive, 2014 X5 3.5d
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Owen sound, Ontario, canada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
I beleive in Ian Callum, the mighty creator of Jaguar F-Type.
Appreciate 0
      02-14-2018, 11:35 AM   #393
Zlaatan
Captain
Sweden
521
Rep
858
Posts

Drives: RWD
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Sweden

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
Lol. This proves that you don't understand how are and expansive the universe is or how complex our own living environment is. We don't know most things...only a few. Only arrogant presumption would allow one to think otherwise. For your consumption:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...ear-alone.html
You are attacking a strawman, I've never said that we have discovered everything in the universe or that we know most things about everything. This was my original statement;

"I've made myself more than clear about this, my point is that the universe as we see it changes because of things happening within it. We have an explanation for how it looks and why it looks the way it does (in most cases), and none of it requires a designer/will."

"the universe as we see it" should make it clear that it doesn't include the things we haven't discovered yet.
Appreciate 0
      02-14-2018, 12:13 PM   #394
LobB
Banned
2371
Rep
5,823
Posts

Drives: M135i
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Manchester

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
I blame no one , because there is nothing when our lights go out..
But *IF* there is a God , I would surely blame him ! Knowing we are talking about a innocent 2 year old baby girl !
I just don't get the abject fear that this religious lot have about death. And needing a friendly guy to hold your hand.
I came from oblivion when I was born. When I die, I return to oblivion. What's the problem?
There is no need to invent some special place to go when you die
Appreciate 1
      03-12-2018, 10:20 PM   #395
El Conquistador
Lieutenant
228
Rep
453
Posts

Drives: 14 XD 335 - 6M as god intended
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Washington DC

iTrader: (3)

Make it out for $130,000, that should keep the bitch quiet.

Appreciate 3
tuco44322.50
minn193085.50

      03-13-2018, 02:26 AM   #396
SoCalS2k
First Lieutenant
SoCalS2k's Avatar
111
Rep
348
Posts

Drives: S2K!
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: LA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2001 Honda S2k  [0.00]
I can't believe someone drew that. This is so disgusting
Appreciate 2
SakhirM46733.50
RickFLM42738.50

Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:39 PM.




1addicts
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST