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      02-03-2017, 10:02 AM   #177
Bubes29
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M3 bushings vs. Inserts

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Originally Posted by 02rsxpilot View Post
All-in-all it's definitely worth a shot for $50 and a DIY versus M3 subframe bushings at $1,000 parts + labor. If it doesn't cut it, you can always uninstall them and sell them here on the forum and go for the real deal.
I have seen several people state that the M3 bushings cost $1,000 PLUS labor costs for install... am I missing something? Turner sells the M3 bushings for just over $300. Even buying them from a dealer, you could easily do $500 for them.

I am debating which upgrade I want to do: inserts or M3 bushings. Considering the price and ease of installation for the inserts, I may just start there and then move up to M3 bushings if I still feel dissatisfied.
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      02-03-2017, 10:44 AM   #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubes29 View Post
I have seen several people state that the M3 bushings cost $1,000 PLUS labor costs for install... am I missing something? Turner sells the M3 bushings for just over $300. Even buying them from a dealer, you could easily do $500 for them.

I am debating which upgrade I want to do: inserts or M3 bushings. Considering the price and ease of installation for the inserts, I may just start there and then move up to M3 bushings if I still feel dissatisfied.
That should read $1000 including parts & labour not labour on top of that. With inserts the parts are like $50, labour is maybe 1 hour so it's much cheaper. But having said that, I personally prefer the full fix so either M3 bushings or aftermarket full replacements (get the 2 piece kind, saves a bit on labour as the install is easier).
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      02-03-2017, 10:57 AM   #179
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I think they're saying "Parts and Labor" meaning inclusive.
Regardless, in my area, dealer installation is some $800 and I could only find one shop willing to consider it in the $500 range.
So I went with inserts. ( Not Whiteline, though.)
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      07-04-2017, 09:19 PM   #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVU View Post
Yesterday I installed a set of Whiteline subframe inserts (KDT918). Thanks to Freon and others who posted instructions, photos, and torque values… I found them to be very helpful. I am extremely pleased with the results. Only one test drive so far, but initial impressions are that the rear wheels now feel much more planted and secure.

I thought I’d pass along a couple comments on the installation process:

As shown in the photo, I found that the bolts attaching the diagonal subframe brace to the chassis on my car are 16mm Torx bolts, not hex bolts as others have mentioned. Good thing I had a complete set of Torx sockets!

The position of the subframe and load on the various hardware can be controlled by either lifting or lowering the rear differential with your floor jack. Unless you adjust the jack to either compress or relax the rear suspension for the specific task you are trying to accomplish, you’ll be working against yourself. Here are the steps I recommend:
  1. With the suspension compressed, remove the rear subframe bushing bolts and loosen the front subframe bushing bolts. Remove the 16mm bolts securing the diagonal subframe braces. Note: the right diagonal brace on my car was loaded outboard and aft by the cross brace that runs inboard and forward to the center of the car. I chose to leave the forward bolt installed a few threads to prevent the diagonal brace from finding a new location and making it difficult to restart the bolts.
  2. With the suspension relaxed, insert the upper and lower rear subframe bushing inserts.
  3. With the suspension compressed, loosely reinstall the rear subframe bushing bolts, then remove the front subframe bushing bolts.
  4. With the suspension relaxed, install the upper front subframe bushing insert.
  5. With the suspension compressed, install the lower front subframe bushing insert.
  6. Loosely reinstall the front subframe bushing bolts and diagonal cross brace bolts.
  7. Snug down all the loosened bolts first, then tighten and torque. I used 74 lb ft on the subframe bolts, and 'good’n tight' on the cross brace bolts.

Here are photos of the bushings before install, before and after photos of the front and rear bushings, and a photo of the 16mm Torx bolts securing the diagonal cross braces. In the last photo (without the inserts installed), you can imaging that with the front subframe bushing lower inserts installed, the diagonal cross brace is displaced by the thickness of the insert (approximately 3/8”). I’m sure that tightening the cross brace bolts results in a fair amount of stress on the cross brace. Ideally a spacer would be fabricated to take up some of this space and reduce the amount of compression/bending load on the brace. I left it as is and tightened the bolts.
I'm considering the Whiteline inserts given the low cost and relatively easy DIY involved and have a couple of questions.

First, have any of you been concerned by the cross brace (called a push rod on RealOEM) displacement mentioned in the quoted post or seen any negative effects from this small displacement?

Second question - how much more difficult are the 2 piece bushing replacements to install?
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      07-09-2017, 10:22 PM   #181
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Quote:
The subframe bolts are reusable. The 16mm or etorx ones are not. Neither are the 18mm bolts connecting to the V brace.
Subframe bolts: 108Nm
V brace 18mm bolts: Use new bolts. 100Nm + 90 degrees
16mm/etorx bolts: Use new bolts. 47Nm (or 45 i cant remember) + 90 degrees.
Thank you thank you! Going from the inserts to the full kdt917's next weekend and this saved me some thread combing time. Only thing needed is the the PN's of the 18mm V brace and 16 mm etorx's. Will look them up and try to add here later...

ianc
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      07-10-2017, 12:35 PM   #182
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For the M12 Torx bolts through the bushings look for 33326760340.
The M10 torx on the Push Rods should be 33326796225.
I think the V-Brace ones you're looking for are M12 Hex screws. 07147203503. But those don't come up on my E88 so it's hard to say for sure.
Be sure to double check my work - I'm just trying to get you pointed in the right direction.

Best of luck!
I got stuck pulling the old struts, so DIY was shelved and had a local race shop do my install. But bought all the parts in advance from ECS.
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      07-12-2017, 05:18 PM   #183
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Bumping my query about displacing the push rod (see post #181 above) Anyone notice this happening or just not concerned about it?

Also, in starting to plan for this and looking at replacement bolts, be aware there is a part no. change on the thru the bushing bolt from 06/2011. Not sure if there is a difference in the bolt or not.
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      11-10-2017, 09:39 PM   #184
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I installed black rear subframe inserts from whiteline a few weeks back. All bolts came out easy and bushings went in with no trouble. Easy install, inexpensive product and firmed up the rear nicely. Overall happy.
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      11-11-2017, 01:54 PM   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebeemer View Post
I installed black rear subframe inserts from whiteline a few weeks back. All bolts came out easy and bushings went in with no trouble. Easy install, inexpensive product and firmed up the rear nicely. Overall happy.
Can I ask how long the whole thing took you?
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      11-11-2017, 07:09 PM   #186
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Can be done in half a day.
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      07-01-2018, 06:50 PM   #187
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Anyone have issues getting the rear bolt back in? I cant. it's just a little too short.
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      11-06-2022, 02:23 PM   #188
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just did this and took about 2.4 hours. took my time and was super careful about lowering the subframe on the jack to avoid brake line stress. Well worth the effort IMO and with the m control arms has transformed the car!!!
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      11-06-2022, 02:29 PM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommm View Post
Anyone have issues getting the rear bolt back in? I cant. it's just a little too short.
Might be a little late but there was no issues on my end. everything went in smooth like butter. Just the jack to compress the bushings first and you'll have no problems
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      01-17-2024, 02:53 PM   #190
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I just installed these inserts and on first impressions, I'm very impressed. I used to get some jerking back and forth when accelerating hard over uneven surfaces and sometimes some FWD-like torque steer. Those have both gone with these inserts. Also since my car is a manual, if I don't rev match properly on shifts, you could feel a thump through the drivetrain, and these inserts have tamed that as well. NVH might be increased a bit, but I still think that's a worthwhile tradeoff.

Installation was fairly easy, and definitely much easier than changing the entire subframe bushings. I used a QuickJack to lift the entire car, but when doing the rear bushings, when I first tried jacking the diff up, the whole rear of the car started to lift so the gap between the subframe and body didn't close up. So instead, you have to put the jack on the subframe cross member behind the diff, to lift the rear of the subframe enough to get the bolts in.

So overall these are a great upgrade for just $54.

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Last edited by Stubbie Blue; 01-19-2024 at 06:52 AM..
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