F8X M3/M4 vs 1M specs

[ozinaldo]

I thought I could note a few primary data of the new M3/M4's (not yet complete) specs here just to compare them with the 1M since it looks to me like it is the successor of the 1M as much as it is for the E9X M3 and there are some pretty numerical coincidences as well as differences.

So no order followed and well thought format is absent here, I am just throwing them out. As usual everyone is welcome to just comment, add or subtract:

1) Weight: It looks like the clearest word about the weight of the F8X is it will be around 80 kg. lighter than its equally equipped E9X predecessor, which means in EU/German DIN terminology it will weigh a flat 1500 kg. (without driver or luggage). 1M was 1495 kg. according to BMW, pretty similar and thinking about the difference in size this is a major improvement imo. Not as big as the weight loss like it was in the E46 M3 CSL but they managed to keep the weight a full size adult male less in a visibly bigger car, so kudos there. What it means to a 1M driver though? Not much, we are already there, albeit in a much smaller package.

2) Engine: It is an inline six and bi-turbo a la N54 but it has Valvetronic too and loosely based on N55 (hence the name S55) so it indeed is in between these two, probably better than both in all aspects and essentially a new engine. Same displacement (3.0 liters) and rev limit 500 rpm higher than a 1M at 7500 which is very good for a FI engine.

3) Power/tq: 430 hp (435ps maybe?) and an identical 369 lb.ft torque (far more they say but it is far more than that in 1M too) vs a 1M. Way too soon to comment; it may be underrated as the N54 or maybe not so much this time around. Why so? Because the max boost is quoted as 18.9 psi already. I won't be surprised if it will be around 450ps engine and around 400 tq since that's what 1Ms had as tq. Powerwise it indeed is similar to a tuned 1M, out of the box with factory warranty. Nothing bad at all then

4) Performance: Promising power to weight figure should give closer to F10 M5 like straight line acceleration and very clearly faster than a stock 1M or a E90 M3.

5) Transmission: Auto rev matching blips added to a 6 speed manual unit as standard and 7 speed DCT is optional. Enough to please manual fans but nothing special there vs 1M, I would take the transmission without any "auto" feature anyway. How good and strong is the clutch would be my real question here.

6) Steering: Electric. Even if it is as good as Porsche's, which I doubt but still possible, I am not happy with this. I did not like the comfort oriented, clinically perfect Boxster S steering when I test drove it.

7) Brakes: They will be better in CCB option, that's guaranteed. Stock compound/steel brakes may or not be better than already very good performing brakes in the 1M (not enough detailed info yet).

8) Wheels/tires: Lightweight forged wheels and Michelin PSS standard (255/275 maybe, they say staggered) so stock to stock there is progress there.

9) Cooling: Heavy artillery and high tech stuff mentioned in the released documents. I bet M division and BMW won't let new M3 suffer from any depressive heat issues, they won't risk anything there. The wording is "track ready".

10) Aero: Anything is better than a 1M but this new M3 seems to be taking it very seriously and I am sure we will see some impressive down force figures. This is going to be a very stable car in high speeds, helped with its size and wheel base too. 1M's air curtain technology finally complimented with "air breather" behind front fenders...they say.

11) Exhaust: I noticed secondary (or are there the only?) huge sized cats. There seem to be electronically controlled flaps and a video showing DTM racers driving the prototype car on the Ring demonstrated a good sounding engine/exhaust from inside the car. No idea if they used the fake amplifier technology again or not, hopefully not. EDIT: A few days on and BMW confirmed that M3/M4 has the active sound technology in the sense that real time (not pre-recorded or fake) engine noise is amplified through the speakers of the car!

12) Suspension: For people who are not crazy for adapting this and that whenever the road or their mood changes, a passive suspension is standard and EDC optional a la E9X.

At first sight, at least for me, these are the really important stuff among the released specs, and my comments on how they compare vs a 1M.

To put it in a nut shell: It is M-ified new 3/4 series body, a new and high tech 3.0 liter in-line six bi-turbo that delivers a tuned N54/tuned 1M level power and tq with a new 6 speed manual standard and electric steering obligatory. A big coupe/or sedan which weighs almost as low (!) as a 1M (which is not low in my book but it is OK).

A lot of things to like I see, a few possible dislikes as well (size and steering most obvious) but honestly speaking I am not super excited the way I was when the E46 M3 or even E92 M3 was launched back in their time. Not even close when I first heard that they would produce a 1M. It must be my cronic dislike concerning cars getting bigger and bigger and also more and more electronics involved which I see as complicating the purity of driving experience.

So, for me, I have no doubts that it will be a high performer but real driving experience must be tested out there to get really impressed; after all most important for a M car is the "feel", for me it is all that matters, and competition is fierce out there. Hopefully, this car like the 1M before, will also be "more than the sum of its parts" and for its price, its heritage, its awaiting competition, its development costs (both as money and time spend), it better be so.

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by ozinaldo

11) Exhaust: I noticed secondary and huge size cats. There seem to be electronically controlled flaps and a video showing DTM racers driving the prototype car on the Ring demonstrated a good sounding engine/exhaust from inside the car. No idea if they used the fake amplifier technology again or not, hopefully not.

Car & Driver has a review up already....and they say it has fake exhaust sounds! FAIL!

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...st-ride-review

[Jason]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

Car & Driver has a review up already....and they say it has fake exhaust sounds! FAIL!

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...st-ride-review

We were in attendance at this M3/M4 workshop event (see our write-up here). We asked and were told by one of the BMW engineers that there was absolutely no artificial sound feature, but others have written today that the M3/M4 will use the speakers to amplify the sound. A request for clarification is in at BMW and we should have an answer by tomorrow morning.

[FIRSTM]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

Car & Driver has a review up already....and they say it has fake exhaust sounds! FAIL!

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...st-ride-review

please say it ain't so!!

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by Jason

We were in attendance at this M3/M4 workshop event (see our write-up here). We asked and were told by one of the BMW engineers that there was absolutely no artificial sound feature, but others have written today that the M3/M4 will use the speakers to amplify the sound. A request for clarification is in at BMW and we should have an answer by tomorrow morning.

oh interesting! thanks for that info. look forward to the clarification.

[Artemis]

Check also these, Oz:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...st-ride-review
http://www.motortrend.com/features/p...m4_first_ride/

"The F80 M3 sedan and the F82 M4 coupe come armed with a powertrain that BMW enthusiasts know well but is a first for 3-series–based Ms: a twin-turbocharged, 3.0-liter inline-six. [...] Despite its similarity to the 1M’s N54 engine, both in concept and characteristics, this inline-six is an all-new, M-developed unit. [...] Compared to the previous M3’s naturally aspirated V8, the inline-six offers 74 additional lb-ft of torque, as well as 16 more horsepower for a total of 430. Will it raise your blood pressure if we point out that that the 1-series M made 1 more pound-foot of torque with its overboost function?"

"[C]orralled within the aluminum hood and front fenders lies an all-new, 3027cc twin-turbo inline-six that BMW promises will provide the instantaneous throttle response, linear power delivery, and stirring engine note of a high-revving naturally aspirated engine, and the stout, broad-as-Ayers-Rock torque curve of a turbo. And yes, it's an all-new engine, with an 89.6mm bore and 80.0mm stroke (the 335i measures 84.0 x 89.6, for 2979cc) that we're told will produce somewhere in the neighborhood of 430 hp and 370 lb-ft of torque. That's 25 percent more torque with a claimed 25 percent less fuel consumption. A choice of six-speed manual (with automatic rev-matching in Sport, but not Sport Plus mode) or seven-speed M Double Clutch Transmission (using the M5/M6's taller gearing) will route all that furious twist to the rear wheels."

...but also - as feared - reference is made to the "Active Sound Design" feature too (http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=588968 - http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=680384 [M5]| http://f20.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=786318 [M135i]):
"As does the M5, the M3 complements the soundtrack by using stereo speakers to amplify the engine’s natural frequencies"

[ozinaldo]

Originally Posted by Ian///M

Just pull the fuse for active sound and buy an Akra.... Solved

+1. That won't be a dealbreaker. Electric steering is the one to keep an eye on.

[Stratus650]

All sounds fine to me, electric steering is no big deal its just a new thing, no negative comment from the DTM drivers on that. My only hope is to offer the m4/m3 in a stripped form, i need zero gadgets

[Robin_NL]

The whole package looks and sounds good to me. EPS is my only worry(coming from a F30 335i) and the pricetag in my country....

Cheers
Robin

[RimasRS]

Once again we will get oem upgraded parts. Turbos, injectors, coils and many other things.

[Advevo]

Nice car but even the weight is under 1500kg i stick with my 1M coupe. Smaller wheelbase give you much agiler car. The 3 and 4 series are very big cars.

The engineering of the new M4 is perfect like throttle blip on 6 speed manual awesome.
Also carbon drive shaft.
carbon roof and rear boot
better brakes
lots of alu used

Now give us detuned engine of the M4 ---> 350hp is enough for me and 1360kg M2 then my 1M Coupe comes for sale.

[TunedM2C]

M next car without a doubt. It's a technological marvel.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by ozinaldo

8) Wheels/tires: Lightweight forged wheels and Michelin PSS standard (255/275 maybe, they say staggered) so stock to stock there is progress there.

The M3/M4 teaser video features the following comment of test driver Bruno Spengler and the BMW reply:

• test driver Bruno Spengler: "For me, the sides of the tires are too soft/weak ["zu weich"]. A different constellation of the tire sides would be a very good improvement."
• Reply by a BMW person: "The tire development is not ended ["abgeschlossen"] yet."

OK, it's a marketing trick of BMW to show that BMW takes into account all kinds of feedback of their test drivers to further perfect the car. That Spengler comment would not have survived the BMW editing room if the M3/M4 tire choice would remain as is. Expect an upgraded Michelin Pilot Super Sports tire, especially for the new M3/M4.

Check 01:52-02:02:

[Artemis]

As we now have more clarity about the M3/M4 specs, it would be interesting to know where BMW M will coin the future M2 as regards engine displacement, power output, torque, etc.

Certainly more than the M235i (officially ± 320 hp and ± 330 ft lbs torque) but less than M3/M4 (officially ± 430 hp and "more than" 329 ft lbs torque).

If BMW M wants to coin the M2 right in-between those two, the M2 is supposed to get officially ± 375 hp (thus also more than the ± 340hp of the 1M).

[Advevo]

I really don t need 375hp i rather have a very low Co2. Our car price is based in co2 the lower the better for us. For me is 350hp more then enough if the weight is going under 1400kg.

[ozinaldo]

Originally Posted by RimasRS

Once again we will get oem upgraded parts. Turbos, injectors, coils and many other things.

That's such a good way of looking in the whole situation, I completely agree, thank you BMW, for indirectly spending the money and making the research for my beloved 1M, while you refrained from doing most of that job 3 years ago

[ozinaldo]

Originally Posted by Advevo

I really don t need 375hp i rather have a very low Co2. Our car price is based in co2 the lower the better for us. For me is 350hp more then enough if the weight is going under 1400kg.

I would seriously consider M2 and selling the 1M for it, only if it provides similar (not necessarily more) power but especially less weight.

1M would be a really mind blowing car if they could take around 100 kg. from it without doing any other changes; almost 1500 kg. is a lot for the size of this car and restricts its abilities. We don't feel it most of the time because the engine is so torquey. My ex E90 sedan with a 3.0 liter engine and decent level of equipment was almost 100 kg. lighter than the 1M but it could swallow the 1M when you look at the sizes.

[eeghie]

Originally Posted by Advevo

I really don t need 375hp i rather have a very low Co2. Our car price is based in co2 the lower the better for us. For me is 350hp more then enough if the weight is going under 1400kg.

+1

Whilst being ambivalent about the new M3/M4, the news that the CO2 emission level is brought under 200g/km is the most annoying. That means that, with some additional engineering efforts, we could have an even lower value for our DD (currently 224g/km) without any compromise to top end performance.

[ozinaldo]

That's another tricky part to see; will it work better...too much better for its own good...or simply worse? I hope some individual testers comment on this essentially electronic unit vs our mechanical differential when the car is out for reviews.

[RimasRS]

Originally Posted by ozinaldo

That's such a good way of looking in the whole situation, I completely agree, thank you BMW, for indirectly spending the money and making the research for my beloved 1M, while you refrained from doing most of that job 3 years ago

BTW 3 yrs ago I thought we can use some engine parts from 1M but it wasn't the case. Now they cant get away

[Gtrain]

So who will be the first to put this engine in a 1M?

[Artemis]

Did you notice that the whole M3/M4 specs presentation is pretty low key about the 1M ? Yes, referencing to E46 M3 and E9X M3, but what about the 1M ?

Imagine for a moment an ///M car featuring a 6-cylinder, 3.0 litre displacement, at least 500 Nm, at least 369 lb-ft of torque, two turbos, flirting with 1500 kg weight, manual transmission, 50:50 weight distribution, air curtains and standard 19" wheels.

"Ah, exists already: those are the specs of the new M3/M4", you say ? You're right ...however, those are also the specs of the 1M (and not particularly those of an E46 M3 or of an E9X M3).

So the referencing to E46 M3 and E9X M3 is nice, but IMHO the M3/M4 - although a kind of its own - has closer family ties with the 1M. The 1M may have been a love child of the ///M Division, but nevertheless it's part of the ///M family.

The new M3/M4 will undoubtedly be a great car. Side-effect of its specs: the value of the 1M has further increased. The little brother ain't that little. The future (2013) proved that, back in 2010, the 1M was more than decently powered. Maybe BMW now considers that, from hindsight, the 1M should have been powered and designed a bit less spectacular. But BMW should never forget that the mere existence of the 1M unexpectedly sparked some sort of "Life Cycle Impulse" (LCI) for the ///M brand and reputation, providing some extra wings to fly again as it used to do in the past, refocusing towards what matters for the aficionados: more speedboat - less yacht.