135i + $6k vs 1m

[Aries932]

I am telling you right now there is absolutely no possible way you are going to match the 1M's suspension with only 6k. The entire subframe is different. On top of that unless you are an expert at tuning suspension you are going to have a very hard time tuning to the same levels that are seen by the M division.

[Focusedintntions]

He's not trying to match the 1m's suspension...he's trying to surpass it. Basically this thread is a "which car should i start with to reach this goal". Regardless of choice the full suspension will be reworked on both cars.

[FactorX81]

Originally Posted by Aries932

I am telling you right now there is absolutely no possible way you are going to match the 1M's suspension with only 6k. The entire subframe is different. On top of that unless you are an expert at tuning suspension you are going to have a very hard time tuning to the same levels that are seen by the M division.

I dot think he wants copy the suspension he wants to get to the same level of handling which is probably possible. I don't get this notion of the m cars having the worlds most perfect suspensions. I'm pretty sure the m guys swap for aftermarket just as much as the non m guys.

[onefastman]

1m hands down

[uberschnell]

Originally Posted by FactorX81

I dot think he wants copy the suspension he wants to get to the same level of handling which is probably possible. I don't get this notion of the m cars having the worlds most perfect suspensions. I'm pretty sure the m guys swap for aftermarket just as much as the non m guys.

Great post and right on the money. Both cars can be improved - only it's going to cost the 135i more to get to the same place.

[Aries932]

Originally Posted by FactorX81

I dot think he wants copy the suspension he wants to get to the same level of handling which is probably possible. I don't get this notion of the m cars having the worlds most perfect suspensions. I'm pretty sure the m guys swap for aftermarket just as much as the non m guys.

Its not that they have the perfect suspension...but you are probably talking about a years worth of suspension research from the M engineers. If you seriously think you are going to be able to slap on some coilovers, brakes, sway bars, and strut bars and be good to go you are sadly mistaken.

They spend a ton of time just in the development stages, then spend a lot more time having the car run around a track while listening to their top racing drivers feedback and tweeking it bit by bit.

There is so much time that goes into the exact parts of these cars I just find it funny that people think they can come in with minimal research and slap on a couple aftermarket parts and be better. Most people do not even have enough experience to know how to tweek coilovers let alone everything else.

[Dubso]

Originally Posted by Aries932

Its not that they have the perfect suspension...but you are probably talking about a years worth of suspension research from the M engineers. If you seriously think you are going to be able to slap on some coilovers, brakes, sway bars, and strut bars and be good to go you are sadly mistaken.

They spend a ton of time just in the development stages, then spend a lot more time having the car run around a track while listening to their top racing drivers feedback and tweeking it bit by bit.

There is so much time that goes into the exact parts of these cars I just find it funny that people think they can come in with minimal research and slap on a couple aftermarket parts and be better. Most people do not even have enough experience to know how to tweek coilovers let alone everything else.

I agree that they spend years testing and whatever, but look at the people that drive M cars, my gut is telling me that 20% are enthusiasts like most of us here, I see lots of M3s around here and most of them are driven by how should I say, status drivers. The development time goes to how to get a grippy suspension and do not sacrifice daily driveability. Ive sat in some track cars, and if you hit a few potholes in those...goodbye spine.
BTW K&W does most of the set up for M's according to their specs.

I also agree that most people dont have experience tweaking things, but thats what forums are for to learn from people who do know. Or pay $$ and get it done by pros.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by Dubso

Appreciate the input
I agree with the cooling issue.
One more thing that Ill give the 135i is its sleeeper status. The 1M looks aggressive and you expect it to haul a**. The face of those 5.0 mustangs in my rear view is just priceless.

You can mod your 135i to be faster in the 1/4 mile than the stock 1M, but overall the 1M is purpose build model with all the BMW engineering included. The biggest thing is that BMW stands behind the 1M 100% with a full warranty at that performance level.
Once you mod the warranty is gone as is the overall engineering.

The price difference is not as big as it probably should be given how great the 1M is.

The new 5.0 Mustang GT won't be behind your 135i stock.
The GT is that powerful and fast.
We'll have to see how the 1M compares to the GT in overall performance in accel, braking, handling once tests are done.
The 1M is more comparable to the Boss 302, which is nearly as fast as the V8 M3.

It'll be interesting to see a comparo between the 1M and a Boss 302 for all around performance. The 5.0 Boss is no slouch, and I doubt it'll have that 5.0 driver smiling.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by miiipilot

Are you looking at a stipper 1///M?

Aren't the 1///Ms going for $52000 with the normal options?

a 2012 135 at $40 has what options? a $46 1///M has none right? So you are probably looking at a $12000 difference for similar equipment right?

miiipilot

2012 135i with M sport, MT - $41,225
2012 1M with no options - $47,010
$5785 difference.

You have to add the sport pkg to the base 135i so that you can compare same seats, steering wheel, as the 1M doesn't have a sport pkg. option. It IS THE sport pkg option for the 1 series.

Same/similar options in either car is about the same cost.
135i prem pkg., M sport, HK audio - $44,450
1M prem pkg., HK audio - $50,285
$5835 difference.

The options prices are about the same for either car.
1M has only non cost color, white.
135i has 3 non cost colors white, black, red.

The price difference really is about all the M goodness, and that does make it a pretty good deal, AND you get the full BMW warranty.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by 1speedbike

Also, take into account that a 135i can be had for under msrp whereas the best you can get for a 1M is at msrp. Also the obnoxious waiting time and all the games you have to play with dealerships to actually get one at msrp at this point. You're gonna chip the motor, upgrade the exhaust, downpipes, brakes, intake and many other things on both cars anyway, so you really are paying 6K for a body kit and a suspension. However you might upgrade the M suspension anyway. People tend to revere the ///M engineers as golden gods sent from the heavens to create perfect parts. I don't think so, all the proof you need is that video floating around of the manager of the performance line and see what a clueless dweeb he is. You'll get roughly the same performance whether you upgrade a 135 with KW springs vs BMW's M springs. In my opinion at least.

If any older members remember, in the beginning when the 135i came out lots of threads were about "what do I need to beat an M3?" And it was a definitely attainable goal without too much crazy stuff. Now, the sentiment seems to be "M will never be beat by non-M" which I disagree with. So if you upgrade the M suspension anyway, it's basically 6K for a body kit. Worth it? Up to you

So, you think the only difference is a suspension and body kit, and you'll have the same handling performance in a 135i as you would with the 1M?
I don't think so.

And, you're missing the full warranty issue, which the 1M has where the modded 135i will not have. To me, that's a major bonus in favor of the 1M.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by Dubso

I agree that they spend years testing and whatever, but look at the people that drive M cars, my gut is telling me that 20% are enthusiasts like most of us here, I see lots of M3s around here and most of them are driven by how should I say, status drivers. The development time goes to how to get a grippy suspension and do not sacrifice daily driveability. Ive sat in some track cars, and if you hit a few potholes in those...goodbye spine.
BTW K&W does most of the set up for M's according to their specs.

I also agree that most people dont have experience tweaking things, but thats what forums are for to learn from people who do know. Or pay $$ and get it done by pros.

This is some truth in what you say.
However, let's be clear, the 1M isn't so much promoted or designed to be a track car.
It's a M series BMW designed to be an overly capable car for the street, daily driver.

If the question is, how much will it take me to turn my 135i into a track car, then it's pointless in comparing it to the 1M.
Anything you can do to the 135i to make it a competitive track car, you can also do to the 1M.
So, which is better to start with?

You can buy a cheap steak and add seasonings and you'll probably get a good steak dinner. But, if you start with a "prime" cut of that same type steak, you can also add those seasonings, but in the end the prime steak will be better. Why? Cause you started with a higher quality steak in the first place. I'm hungry, in case you can't tell.

The 1M is a better starting platform than a 135i.
So ask yourself this question, will the 1M's $6k premium price result in a better track car once the equivalent amount of money and time is spent on getting either car to a competitive track level?
I'd say, YES.

The bigger question is, if you want to invest all that time and money to create a track car, why bother with comparing new cars?
Buy a used 1 series, then you'll have lot's of money to make that one an exceptional track car.

The base platform of the 1M is superior to the 135i, cause it's not just a suspension and body kit only.
Does anyone have detailed spec's on what was done to the internals of the 1M's N54 engine? I'll bet there's more work done inside than just upping the boost. BMW warrants this engine to run at the stock power level it's sold at. To make sure everything works reliably they've done their homework.

Let's say 5 years from now you had the choice of buying equally performing cars. Each car has about 50K miles on it.
One is a CPO'd stock 1M, the other a warranty expired, modded 135i. Let's say the price of each was about $3k more for the 1M, as the 1M has the added cost of CPO and the 135i had higher than normal price due to all the parts added to it. I'll bet most of us wouldn't touch the modded 135i.

[roo97ss]

big advantage for 1m is the ability to put bigger rubber under the flared fenders and the rear diff. Realistically you probably won't go with the wider fenders on a 135 so that will always lack, and a good diff will prob be at least 2 and probably more like 3-4k.

Plus if you ever consider selling the 1m will be worth a fair bit more than the 135, even if it's only 3-4k more, that makes up for the diff, plus all the other stuff is a bonus.

i'd say 1m obviously, or if you're going to mod the crap out of it and aren't interested in warranty, then it's simple, spend 30k on a used 135 and go from there.

[1speedbike]

Originally Posted by RPM90

So, you think the only difference is a suspension and body kit, and you'll have the same handling performance in a 135i as you would with the 1M?
I don't think so.

Well... what's different other than the suspension and the fatter wheels?

The same intake, same exhaust up to the axleback, same engine, same intake manifold, cooling systems etc, same "lightweight" flywheel and crankshaft post '09, same body, same everything.. except the software, suspension and the body work allowing for fatter wheels. And bigger brakes I forgot. I get that the "overall package is greater than the sum of its parts" but if all those parts are the same... You can even look up part numbers on realoem.com. Mostly the same.. Only a couple things changed between 2010 135's (2011 moved to N55) and the 1M, including updating the exhaust to be more emissions compliant in the cats (and probably more restrictive) and giving the same DP's and midpipes a different part number.


And don't get me wrong... I'd LOVE a 1M... I'm honestly just disappointed. Build a new engine for X5 and X6 SUV ///M's and not for a 1M? I love that it has the M3 suspension.. but beyond that it's a lot of recycled parts. I'd get it just for the big-ass fenders and the serious rubber, if time and money allowed... but it could have been more :/

[mtla4]

Let me chime in. Those 1M 135 are not sports car. I don't see the obsession about the ring etc. IMO 0-60 etc don't mean crap since there are so many variables out there. The 135 and 1M are probably the best sporty DD out there just slap a tune some suspension decent tires and end it there. Unless serious stripping for major racing is needed it's a waste of money might as well just buy a used 996 GT3 or a competent race car. Enjoy the car for what it is which is being one of the best DD out there.

P.S If I would still own my 135 I would never trade it in for a 1M it is not worth it...for the loss might as well just grab a used e46 m3 and add it to the stable. But if I have to grab an other 1er anytime soon I would grab the 1M. Why? well I liked my N54 and would own an N54 over the N55 plus it has a better suspension.

Own a 135=keep it, In the market= 1M

[RnmEvo9]

Originally Posted by mtla4

Own a 135=keep it, In the market= 1M

+1

[aerobod]

The biggest frustration of the 135i that the 1M fixes is the limited slip diff. The ///M diff on our Z4M gives it a major advantage in pushing hard out of a corner, the 135i just takes it's merry time spinning the inside wheel to little effect. You can also steer the rear of the car with the throttle much more easily with the ///M diff compared with the open diff on the 135i, leading to a much more satisfying driving experience when pushing the car hard. A $6K price difference is worth it just for this capability, in my opinion, bearing in mind upgrading the welded diff to a limited slip on most 135i will cost about $4.5K plus labour.

[Prof T]

Originally Posted by Dubso

2012 135i ~$40k
2012 1m ~$46k

Bigger bang for the buck?

nurburgring 1m = 8.12min
135i= 8.40min

would I be able to catch up to 1m for $6k or less?
Call me crazy or insane, but my ultimate goal over the next years is to get a 1er platform car with 7:30 min or less around nurburgring for a total cost of less than a new Skyline GTR. and street legal. Ideas? input positive or negative would both be gladly appreciated.

Dub, So why not get a used 135 54N that's out of warranty. Probably get a good deal and have at it. I think you could save about 14k off a M and get closer than a 2012 135 could. Mod away.