Track day after suspension mods

pixelblue · 05-02-2010, 04:19 PM

mods
-m3 lower wishbone
-m3 connecting rod
-m3 front sway bar
-adjustable end link
-vorshlag camber plates

let me first start by thanking Harold and Brandon from HP Autowerks for their support and guidance.

Driving impressions
The most noticeable thing about these mods was the absolute lack of body roll through high g corners. The car cornered absolutely flat. The front sway bar mod was the biggest bang for your buck. The m3 arms didn’t yield a noticeable difference in feel at least as far as I could tell. There seemed to be a marginal improvement in the steering response if any. The Vorshlag plates did dial out a whole bunch of understeer but I am not sure if I got the correct setting dialed in at the track. The adjustment was not as easy as thought. This was clearly a two man operation. There is a good amount of force required to push the wheel in and then keeping it there while another person to tighten the difficult to get to nuts. I can’t imagine setting up for anything other than the min or max with any measure of accuracy. The markers are hard to see from the small opening. Also, trying to keep the wheel steady at one location in between the min and max setting would be daunting task. I would appreciate any thoughts on an easier solution than what I just described. Overall I was able to shave off 4 seconds from my previous best time. Track is 2.2 miles. I was able to attack the corners harder with minimum understeer. Mind you I am still running my rft. I am sure once I switch out to better tires I would be able to reduce my lap times even more.

Conclusion
I feel upgrading the sway bar along with some good rubber should yield the max noticeable improvement overall for the 1er. Adding camber plates or the control arms are finite improvements over the sway bar and rubber upgrade. Of course if you are tracking, those finite improvements are everything but for the average daily driver, just upgrading the sway bar and adding some good rubber would address most of the major short comings of the 1er handling characteristic.

Post script
I had shut off DTC and DSC for this event. At first I was a bit hesitant but I must say the car didn’t skip a beat and no problems with stability or wheel spin. I did notice the light flickering on and off during certain parts of the track but never caused any alarm while driving near limits. My instructor was really impressed with the car and I got a lot of compliments at the track. Mind you there were a lot of nice vehicles and some really hard core ones. I am attaching a link to a few hot laps from my final run of the day. I must say during this video I had a friend in a Nissan sentra SE-R spec V that had been stripped out and weighed a mere 2500 lbs giving a hard chase. He would tighten up my lead when we got into the corners but then I would pull away on the straights. Goes to show you how important low weight is compared to high horsepower at least when it comes to attacking the corners. I feel if he had another 50 horsepower he could have over taken me.

zsapphire7 · 05-05-2010, 04:29 PM

remove the wheel before you change camber! less weight so its a lot easier to do that by yourself.

pixelblue · 05-05-2010, 09:43 PM

good advise. thanks!

pixelblue · 05-05-2010, 09:49 PM

here are a few more videos. I am chasing a modded B5 S4 with 460hp. another is me being chased by a sentra se-r spec v which was stripped out with track tires and weighed 800 lbs lighter. the last one is a fun multi-angle edited piece. hope you like it

CDR_UK · 05-06-2010, 01:38 AM

Nice videos! How and where did you attach the GoPro to front (using the quick release clips or the suction mount)?

pixelblue · 05-06-2010, 06:23 AM

thanks man. used the suction cup mount on the front bumper

ianc · 05-06-2010, 10:20 AM

Great video! What do you think you're getting for camber with the plates?

ianc

pixelblue · 05-06-2010, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianc

Great video! What do you think you're getting for camber with the plates?

ianc

not sure exactly but I am supposed to get max -3 degrees. it is difficult to tell because the markings are hard to read and they don't seem to be a very accurate measurings. when I was at the track I could see the negative camber but it didn't seem very pronounced. that's why I wasn't sure if I had gotten it right. next time I will take the wheel off so it can be more manageable to set the camber.

bradford · 05-06-2010, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pixelblue

not sure exactly but I am supposed to get max -3 degrees. it is difficult to tell because the markings are hard to read and they don't seem to be a very accurate measurings. when I was at the track I could see the negative camber but it didn't seem very pronounced. that's why I wasn't sure if I had gotten it right. next time I will take the wheel off so it can be more manageable to set the camber.

The markings are completely useless. You need a real alignment to yield correct benefits.

AussieRacer · 05-07-2010, 04:43 AM

+1
Changing camber will ALWAYS change toe to some degree. In BMW's setup I'm not sure how much, but you'd just be guessing where the wheels are pointing if you adjusted the camber via the top hat and didn't check toe.....

Also interested in how you arrived at the conclusions of which mod works best. Where your mods done in stages?

pixelblue · 05-07-2010, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AussieRacer

+1
Changing camber will ALWAYS change toe to some degree. In BMW's setup I'm not sure how much, but you'd just be guessing where the wheels are pointing if you adjusted the camber via the top hat and didn't check toe.....

Also interested in how you arrived at the conclusions of which mod works best. Where your mods done in stages?

mods were done in two stages. the last one consisted of the m3 parts and the camber plates. like I mentioned earlier the most noticeable was the lack of body roll through tight corners. I am contributing that to the sway upgrade. also, there was a clear reduction in understeer through the same tight corners. so I am contributing that to the camber plates. the control arms were the only upgrade that were not so clearly noticeable. I must say the ride now is very harsh through rough surfaces. I am guessing the rft are the main culprits. can't wait to run them down and swap them out for something better

My135 · 05-07-2010, 04:09 PM

No coil over in your suspension setup?

pixelblue · 05-07-2010, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by My135

No coil over in your suspension setup?

no not yet. I am debating whether my next mod should be an lsd or coilovers. I think I will change the tires first though. should be a significant improvement.

bradford · 05-07-2010, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pixelblue

no not yet. I am debating whether my next mod should be an lsd or coilovers. I think I will change the tires first though. should be a significant improvement.

Why not the rear subframe bushings?

pixelblue · 05-08-2010, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bradford

Why not the rear subframe bushings?

mainly because I didn't notice a big difference changing the front bushings and arms. I guess eventually I will though. just need to prioritize the significant mod first

bradford · 05-08-2010, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pixelblue

mainly because I didn't notice a big difference changing the front bushings and arms. I guess eventually I will though. just need to prioritize the significant mod first

Two totally different things. The bushings should be first one anyone's list IMHO.

Jaguar66 · 05-09-2010, 02:19 PM

Don't you mean attribute instead of contribute?

pixelblue · 05-09-2010, 04:23 PM

wrong forum smartie pants

Jaguar66 · 05-09-2010, 06:38 PM

Eh, sorry.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobMason

Don't you mean attribute instead of contribute?

Quote:

Originally Posted by pixelblue

wrong forum smartie pants

RPM90 · 06-04-2010, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pixelblue

Nice track. Looks to be very high speed, giving our engine room to stretch it's legs.
Cool.

pixelblue · 06-05-2010, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPM90

Nice track. Looks to be very high speed, giving our engine room to stretch it's legs.
Cool.

actually this is a slow track. it's 2.2 miles with 19 turns. there are two straights which you can hit 110 or so. this is a great track! can't wait to go back

RPM90 · 06-07-2010, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pixelblue

actually this is a slow track. it's 2.2 miles with 19 turns. there are two straights which you can hit 110 or so. this is a great track! can't wait to go back

Wow, really?
Looked fast to me given that it looked like most of the turns were higher speed sweepers, as some tracks have some slow hard turns.
Nice run. You made it look fast to me.

05-02-2010, 04:19 PM	#1
pixelblue Colonel 140 Rep 2,234 Posts Drives: the silver bullet Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: northern virginia iTrader: (2) Garage List 2010 135i [8.90]	Track day after suspension mods mods -m3 lower wishbone -m3 connecting rod -m3 front sway bar -adjustable end link -vorshlag camber plates let me first start by thanking Harold and Brandon from HP Autowerks for their support and guidance. Driving impressions The most noticeable thing about these mods was the absolute lack of body roll through high g corners. The car cornered absolutely flat. The front sway bar mod was the biggest bang for your buck. The m3 arms didn’t yield a noticeable difference in feel at least as far as I could tell. There seemed to be a marginal improvement in the steering response if any. The Vorshlag plates did dial out a whole bunch of understeer but I am not sure if I got the correct setting dialed in at the track. The adjustment was not as easy as thought. This was clearly a two man operation. There is a good amount of force required to push the wheel in and then keeping it there while another person to tighten the difficult to get to nuts. I can’t imagine setting up for anything other than the min or max with any measure of accuracy. The markers are hard to see from the small opening. Also, trying to keep the wheel steady at one location in between the min and max setting would be daunting task. I would appreciate any thoughts on an easier solution than what I just described. Overall I was able to shave off 4 seconds from my previous best time. Track is 2.2 miles. I was able to attack the corners harder with minimum understeer. Mind you I am still running my rft. I am sure once I switch out to better tires I would be able to reduce my lap times even more. Conclusion I feel upgrading the sway bar along with some good rubber should yield the max noticeable improvement overall for the 1er. Adding camber plates or the control arms are finite improvements over the sway bar and rubber upgrade. Of course if you are tracking, those finite improvements are everything but for the average daily driver, just upgrading the sway bar and adding some good rubber would address most of the major short comings of the 1er handling characteristic. Post script I had shut off DTC and DSC for this event. At first I was a bit hesitant but I must say the car didn’t skip a beat and no problems with stability or wheel spin. I did notice the light flickering on and off during certain parts of the track but never caused any alarm while driving near limits. My instructor was really impressed with the car and I got a lot of compliments at the track. Mind you there were a lot of nice vehicles and some really hard core ones. I am attaching a link to a few hot laps from my final run of the day. I must say during this video I had a friend in a Nissan sentra SE-R spec V that had been stripped out and weighed a mere 2500 lbs giving a hard chase. He would tighten up my lead when we got into the corners but then I would pull away on the straights. Goes to show you how important low weight is compared to high horsepower at least when it comes to attacking the corners. I feel if he had another 50 horsepower he could have over taken me. __________________ "I would quote everything pixelblue said, but you've already read it. Take it from someone who's put the 1 through its paces"
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05-05-2010, 04:29 PM	#2
zsapphire7 Colonel 104 Rep 2,368 Posts Drives: 08 e92 M3 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: SF Bay Area iTrader: (21)	remove the wheel before you change camber! less weight so its a lot easier to do that by yourself.
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05-05-2010, 09:43 PM	#3
pixelblue Colonel 140 Rep 2,234 Posts Drives: the silver bullet Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: northern virginia iTrader: (2) Garage List 2010 135i [8.90]	good advise. thanks! __________________ "I would quote everything pixelblue said, but you've already read it. Take it from someone who's put the 1 through its paces"
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05-05-2010, 09:49 PM	#4
pixelblue Colonel 140 Rep 2,234 Posts Drives: the silver bullet Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: northern virginia iTrader: (2) Garage List 2010 135i [8.90]	here are a few more videos. I am chasing a modded B5 S4 with 460hp. another is me being chased by a sentra se-r spec v which was stripped out with track tires and weighed 800 lbs lighter. the last one is a fun multi-angle edited piece. hope you like it __________________ "I would quote everything pixelblue said, but you've already read it. Take it from someone who's put the 1 through its paces"
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05-06-2010, 01:38 AM	#5
CDR_UK Second Lieutenant 15 Rep 226 Posts Drives: AW 1M Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: home iTrader: (0)	Nice videos! How and where did you attach the GoPro to front (using the quick release clips or the suction mount)?
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05-06-2010, 06:23 AM	#6
pixelblue Colonel 140 Rep 2,234 Posts Drives: the silver bullet Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: northern virginia iTrader: (2) Garage List 2010 135i [8.90]	thanks man. used the suction cup mount on the front bumper __________________ "I would quote everything pixelblue said, but you've already read it. Take it from someone who's put the 1 through its paces"
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05-06-2010, 10:20 AM	#7
ianc Ex '87 Carrera 246 Rep 1,259 Posts Drives: '10 TiAg 6MT 135i Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Redwood Shores, California iTrader: (0)	Great video! What do you think you're getting for camber with the plates? ianc __________________ "I will tell you there is a big difference between driving money and driving blood, sweat and tears." - PorscheGuy79 "I got 328 loaner and was impressed with performance. It feels much faster than my 135i." - MOCKBA
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05-07-2010, 04:43 AM	#10
AussieRacer Major 24 Rep 1,058 Posts Drives: 2008 135i Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Aust iTrader: (0)	+1 Changing camber will ALWAYS change toe to some degree. In BMW's setup I'm not sure how much, but you'd just be guessing where the wheels are pointing if you adjusted the camber via the top hat and didn't check toe..... Also interested in how you arrived at the conclusions of which mod works best. Where your mods done in stages? __________________ Current: 135i Auto, Le Mans Blue - w/ Bridgestone RE-11 rears, GP Thunder 7500k angels, & "golf tee" mod plus a few M3 suspension bits and pieces...
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05-07-2010, 04:09 PM	#12
My135 Lieutenant Colonel 85 Rep 1,609 Posts Drives: Join Date: Mar 2008 iTrader: (0)	No coil over in your suspension setup? __________________ 7/08 135 Coupe, Crimson Red, 6 SP, Sport, Taupe Lette/Aluminum. Performance Mods: JB4 on Map 5, BMS DP Fix V3, Injen polished intake, AR Catless DP, Maddad resonated mid-pipes, aFe exhaust polished tips, ST Suspension Coil Over and Hotchkis front sway bar. Others: BMS OCC, BT Scanner, Mud Flap. Next Mods: AA Front Strut Brace.
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05-09-2010, 02:19 PM	#17
Jaguar66 M Power 41 Rep 1,469 Posts Drives: '09 ///M-Sport 135i Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: San Rafael iTrader: (3)	Don't you mean attribute instead of contribute? __________________ Last edited by Jaguar66; 05-09-2010 at 06:34 PM..
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05-09-2010, 04:23 PM	#18
pixelblue Colonel 140 Rep 2,234 Posts Drives: the silver bullet Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: northern virginia iTrader: (2) Garage List 2010 135i [8.90]	wrong forum smartie pants __________________ "I would quote everything pixelblue said, but you've already read it. Take it from someone who's put the 1 through its paces"
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