Can a 135i be modded to feel visceral?

[CharsadehBEAST]

I've been car shopping for 6+ months, tried about a dozen different models so far and have recently found my way to the E82 world. I was excited to find one for sale locally in supurb condition and took it for a spin: https://www.sunnyvalevw.com/used/BMW...a402a1bd7c.htm. Unfortunately, I was let down in terms of it being a visceral/engaging driving experience especially after reading thru multiple posts on here labeling it so. It's not a matter of HP, straight line acceleration is more than enough for my wants. I've test driven far more powerful cars and found them kinda boring i.e. R35. My modification plans would be primarily focused on suspension, brakes, and exhaust - for those of you that have upgraded the suspension did it completely transform the driving experience? Did it feel more "go-kart" like?

I have not owned a vehicle with hydraulic steering for some time maybe that's why the 135i steering is throwing me off? Reminds me of modern EPS equipped cars that have artifically heavy steering in sport+ settings failing to achieve "rawness".

Hard to describe what I'm after but if you have ever driven a Lotus Evora you will know what I mean, that car feels like an extension of your arms. I don't expect a 135i to have Lotus like steering/handling feel but if I can modify it to be 50% like the Evora I'd be

[Esteban]

Try one with a 6-speed. You'll find it much more engaging and "visceral." Flicking a paddle or driving in auto mode just isn't the same. That's my opinion. And you'll need some suspension mods. Start with the rear subframe bushings. The stock ones are loose and wiggly and need replacing. Also, replace the run flat tires if not already replaced. Search here or Google for more info.

PS - I see the run flats have already been replaced on the car you tested with Michelins. Somebody made a good choice.

[Thunderguts]

So your primary goal is an engaging driving experience? Except that they are difficult to find right now, a manual 128i might be a more visceral experience. They're still fast enough to be fun, but not on the same level as the 135i.

My Mustang is faster than my little 128i will ever be, but the Mustang is not engaging to drive. I missed that connection I felt to my car so I picked up a gently used 128i and I've never looked back. Just as an audiophile derives pleasure from dozens of different elements that create sound, I love all the touchpoints and inputs that make a car fun to drive. I've been slowly working my way though all these various points in my car, refining them for improved feeling, sound, texture, etc. I'm the kind of person who will sit there and click a mechanical switch over and over just for the tactile sensation in my fingers. This is why I chose my 128i and these are the improvements I'm making.

1) Shifter - A short throw shifter and stiffer selector rod bushings will make for a much more pleasant shifting experience.

2) Suspension - There are many options here, but yes, a suspension upgrade vastly improves your "feel" of the road. Subframe bushings are notoriously soft for a luxury ride. There are many upgrades for these also. My setup is relatively mild compared to some, but it's perfect for an engaging daily driver. I can even take the wife for short trips without her complaining about the ride.

3) Steering - The E82 has good steering, but it can be improved even more by upgrading to M3 control arms and tension struts or even more aggressively with monoball bearings. The 128i benefits from a significantly lighter front end and crisper steering. I think the weight of mine is just about perfect.

4) Brakes - Upgrade to more aggressive pads and code out all the nannies. This is my most recent upgrade and I love the more connected and linear feel that comes from actually braking with my foot and not a computer.

5) Clutch - Whatever you do, get rid of the delay valve. It's the worst device I've ever experienced in a manual car. I'm planning to eliminate the dual-mass flywheel also. A simple single-mass clutch should provide a far more linear engagement.

6) Sound - None of the E82 models really sound good from the factory; it's a shame we can't have individual throttle bodies. You can make some improvements for intake sound and exhaust. Both of these create a more visceral connection to your car.

7) Intangibles - This is also true of the 135i, but I love the short wheelbase and balance of the 128i. It's light(ish) and very nimble without feeling like a tin can. There's just no substitute for perfect balance and a lively chassis.

I would rather have a Exige for a track toy, but I couldn't live with one daily. My little 128i is by far the best I have driven that's still comfortable enough to daily. You'd be hard-pressed to find a more engaging car for the money.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Thunderguts

a manual 128i might be a more visceral experience. They're still fast enough to be fun, but not on the same level as the 135i.

Agree. And the tuning potential of the 135i is clearly on another level. Not putting down the 128i because a lot of people like the N/A engine versus a turbo. I, personally, prefer a turbo but not everybody feels that way, so to each their own.

I must say that my GLI has less hp than the 128i and I'm perfectly happy with it, but if you want more, there is the 135i.

[CharsadehBEAST]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Try one with a 6-speed. You'll find it much more engaging and "visceral." Flicking a paddle or driving in auto mode just isn't the same.

Manual is not an option, been there done that and I'm over it. I picked up a Corrado VR6 not long ago to get back into a manual and sold it within months, knees are too beat up after a lifetime of playing sports. I do acknowledge the transmission factor is one of the most important features along with steering feedback when it comes to an engaging driving experience and my options will be limited as a result. With that said, the Evora I drove had a torque converter automatic with paddles and I still found it incredibly engaging. Spent a day in automatic C7 Z06 which has a modern EPS system and had a blast. I used to own an E60/V10 M5 for a number of years, despite the size/weight it was surprisingly visceral in M mode and the SMGIII transmission is the best clutchless manual I have ever driven including modern PDK's. That's one other thing I was a little disappointed in with the DCT in the 135i, it's too smooth, the SMG in my M5 had a single clutch and would bang into gears during spirited driving similar to a traditional manual. Are there tunes available for the DCT? If so, do you happen to know how it alters the shifts?

Originally Posted by Thunderguts

So your primary goal is an engaging driving experience?

Yes!

Originally Posted by Thunderguts

3) Steering - The E82 has good steering, but it can be improved even more by upgrading to M3 control arms and tension struts or even more aggressively with monoball bearings. The 128i benefits from a significantly lighter front end and crisper steering. I think the weight of mine is just about perfect.

If I were to take an E92 M3 for spin, would it give me some insight to what the 135i would feel like with the upgrades you mention?

Originally Posted by Thunderguts

6) Sound - None of the E82 models really sound good from the factory; it's a shame we can't have individual throttle bodies. You can make some improvements for intake sound and exhaust. Both of these create a more visceral connection to your car.

I'm with you here, in stock form the 135i I test drove did not sound great (not horrible) and an exhaust/CAI that is not obnoxious can alter the driving experience quite a bit. A family member just had a throaty exhaust installed on his 428i, I'm hoping to meet up with him soon to hear it in person. He has stated the exhaust made him fall in love with the car all over again. After I tested out the 135i, I took a Fiat 500 Abarth for a spin. While driving the 135i I had a relatively straight face but behind the wheel of the Abarth I was grinning ear to ear mostly because of the sounds it made.

Originally Posted by Thunderguts

7) Intangibles - This is also true of the 135i, but I love the short wheelbase and balance of the 128i. It's light(ish) and very nimble without feeling like a tin can. There's just no substitute for perfect balance and a lively chassis.

I would rather have a Exige for a track toy, but I couldn't live with one daily. My little 128i is by far the best I have driven that's still comfortable enough to daily. You'd be hard-pressed to find a more engaging car for the money.

I agree with your last sentence 100%, I'm having a hard time accepting that my options are limited due to budget and I have to make a compromise. Also, the seating position is too high even with the seat in it's lowest setting. The black 135i I test drove was equipped with sport seats and did a good job holding my pudgy ass in place in the corners but part of a visceral driving experience is being lower to the ground. A co-worker had a 911 cab that was slammed and I felt like my butt was inches off the pavement, it made it more thrilling. An aftermarket seat would be a must if I pick up a 135i.

[Esteban]

I believe there is a tune for the DCT. You'll have to do a search for it here to find out more. I have a problem myself with a manual because of an accident involving a fracture to my left ankle that left me unable to work the clutch in my '06 Mustang GT (or any clutch). Will forever miss a manual because of it. DCT is not the same for me but had to make do nevertheless. 135i with DCT was a fun car with very fast shifts in manual mode but still prefer a manual transmission.

[Thunderguts]

Originally Posted by CharsadehBEAST

I picked up a Corrado VR6 not long ago to get back into a manual and sold it within months

I loved the Corrado! I only got to drive the G60 version. The engine felt like a tractor, but the chassis and interior were sublime. I still remember the experience fondly.

Originally Posted by CharsadehBEAST

If I were to take an E92 M3 for spin, would it give me some insight to what the 135i would feel like with the upgrades you mention?

You would see how nice the steering can be, but obviously there are significant differences. You can install the faster M rack into the E82 chassis and the stiffer bushings communicate the road much better.

Originally Posted by CharsadehBEAST

I agree with your last sentence 100%, I'm having a hard time accepting that my options are limited due to budget and I have to make a compromise. Also, the seating position is too high even with the seat in it's lowest setting. The black 135i I test drove was equipped with sport seats and did a good job holding my pudgy ass in place in the corners but part of a visceral driving experience is being lower to the ground. A co-worker had a 911 cab that was slammed and I felt like my butt was inches off the pavement, it made it more thrilling. An aftermarket seat would be a must if I pick up a 135i.

I should have said that you'd be hard-pressed to find a car with modern safety and convenience features for the same money. You absolutely can get a cheap NA Miata or a Porsche 914 which offer dramatically more "feel" than a modern BMW, but I couldn't live with either as a daily. I don't know why so many of the fun cars had to be convertibles. I hate convertibles so my choices are limited. My ultimate goal is to own and restore an E30 M3.

Have you looked at the Cayman S? Those are semi-affordable now and the PDK is probably one of the best out there.

[dtla1]

I think smaller cars, or lighter more sportier cars (like that C7 Z06 that you drove) will always feel overall more visceral.

I think the only thing on my car currently that negatively affects the driving feel is my larger front wheels. I'm running rear wheels with 255 section (so square all around), on the stock wheels. My car isn't the lowest, so could probably gain a bit in camber if I lowered it a bit more, and I DD my car so I don't run a crazy amount of toe (like an 1/8" total in the front), but that setup does make the front feel a bit heavy/sluggish.

But If I'm on a fun windy backroad, that front grip really helps me to be able to feel confident on tight roads to be able to stay in my lane, and still feel a good amount of grip and response, while keeping to the speedLimit. That's the main point of my car setup anyways. It's a DD, that can also be a good amount of when you get on a fun road, or a casual track day.

OP, I have the Performance Exhaust on my car if you feel you need to hear that in person, local.

[Esteban]

Here's a thread that talks about the tune for the DCT that I mentioned above.

XHP DCT Flash released

[MightyMouseTech]

Put four donut spare tires on it, guarantee it will never be dull.

[CharsadehBEAST]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Here's a thread that talks about the tune for the DCT that I mentioned above.

XHP DCT Flash released

Thank you for looking that up, I'll read thru it tonight.

Originally Posted by Thunderguts

I loved the Corrado! I only got to drive the G60 version. The engine felt like a tractor, but the chassis and interior were sublime. I still remember the experience fondly.

I've owned both G60 and VR6 versions over the course of 20 years, it's what started my interest in cars. I preferred the balance and lightness of the G60 and with a few bolt ons it was a lot of fun. The VR6 sounds fantastic and has a bit more go but you feel the added weight up front. Both had hydraulic steering and communicated well.

Originally Posted by Thunderguts

Have you looked at the Cayman S? Those are semi-affordable now and the PDK is probably one of the best out there.

Yes I checked out a 718 Cayman S (4 cyl turbo) with PDK not long ago, beautiful in/out, has more legroom than a Miata or S2k but still not enough for my frame, after 20 minutes I was getting uncomfortable. My brother has a 2018 Porsche turbo with PDK which replaced a 2010 with PDK, I've had plenty of seat time with them. One of the better DCT's for sure but I can't lie I still prefer the SMGIII in my previous M5.

I've looked at a bunch of cars, started off with mostly higher HP GT's but realized they were not for me: Maserati Granturismo Sport, Audi S5, B8.5 (2014) RS5 V8, F-Type both V6 and V8 versions, R35 GTR, Golf R, 718 Cayman S, 991 911 S, M2, several M4's, M235i, etc. I have the budget to go the 911/Evora 400 route but if I can find something cheaper like a 135i I'll have enough left over for a new Wrangler or possibly the new Bronco when it finally comes out.

[iminhell1]

And you have not yet bought a Cayman why?

[Blader]

Short answer to the question is no unfortunately.

[krhodes1]

I feel the same about this generation of BMW's steering. It's too damned heavy, and takes a lot of nimbleness out of the car. But I am not really looking for that with either of my BMWs. Different horses for different courses and all that.

But have you tried a MK7 GTI? I have one of those too ('17 Sport with all the factory performance goodies), and it is MUCH more engaging to drive than a stock e8x. Lighter, nimbler, more planted right out of the box. And if you must have an automatic, they don't get much better than VW's DSG for this sort of thing unless you can afford something with a PDK in it. The nasty slushers in these BMWs are sure nothing to get excited about.

[2008e92328i]

Honestly, if you drove the Evora and loved how the car handled, and have the money to buy it, do it.
I just bought a 128i base manual coupe. The reason for buying it was I wanted to have a "fun" car. If I was little bit smaller, I would buy an S2000 (loved that car, but I was pretty uncomfortable in it). Next best thing I came up with is 128i. If I can make it "handle" 80% as good as S2000, I'll be very happy. The car is fun to drive stock, but I think it needs much better suspension. People are recommending a bunch of upgrades from M cars that can be fitted on 1 series, but my first upgrade is gonna be some type of coilovers (I'm still researching that subject)
Good luck on your search

[CharsadehBEAST]

Originally Posted by iminhell1

And you have not yet bought a Cayman why?

See above your post

Originally Posted by Blader

Short answer to the question is no unfortunately.

Coming from an Exige owner your answer has a lot of merit

Originally Posted by krhodes1

But have you tried a MK7 GTI? I have one of those too ('17 Sport with all the factory performance goodies), and it is MUCH more engaging to drive than a stock e8x. Lighter, nimbler, more planted right out of the box. And if you must have an automatic, they don't get much better than VW's DSG for this sort of thing unless you can afford something with a PDK in it. The nasty slushers in these BMWs are sure nothing to get excited about.

Haven't driven a GTI but I'll give it a try as my car roots started in the VW world. Tried out an older R32 and did not like it.

[iminhell1]

Austin Martin DB7?
Seen a video saying they are getting very affordable. No idea on anything about them really. Look neat though, especially for the pricepoint.

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by iminhell1

Austin Martin DB7?
Seen a video saying they are getting very affordable. No idea on anything about them really. Look neat though, especially for the pricepoint.

Quite boring to drive actually. They are a very nice GT car that make some very nice noises. My 1er is significantly more fun to drive.

I have driven many, many high end "super cars". Honestly, the only car I find more exciting is the Ferrari F430 Scud., the Gallardo is close. Some day will have a grey F car.

Even my sisters V10 Audi R8 (manual) I find less exciting, it's just too composed. Her 97 Integra Type R is just pure bliss.

If you want exciting, it can't be perfect. There has to be that hint of "this car is trying to kill me" twinkle in its headlights. I love that the 1er has that sparkle. Who the hell stuffs that much power in a car the size of a Civic?

[Eyeman]

If the M2 did not feel visceral to you then I'm not sure you'll get there with a 1series. I'd say see if you can find a 1M to test drive. Us early 1 series modders thought it was great that the 1M received such great reviews and it was basically what we were trying to create. I'm surprised the Cayman felt cramped to you, but I am small and have not driven one. Sure sounds like a Cayman is what you want, or a 968 if you want to go older.

[krhodes1]

Originally Posted by CharsadehBEAST

See above your post


Coming from an Exige owner your answer has a lot of merit



Haven't driven a GTI but I'll give it a try as my car roots started in the VW world. Tried out an older R32 and did not like it.

The R32 and R are very different to drive than a regular GTI. You DEFINITELY want to try one with the VAQ differential - it's transformative in how the car drives. Magic really. And of course, like every turbo car if you feel the need for speed it is easy to turn up the wick, but I find 220hp to be waaaay more than enough.

[Lester]

The driving experience you desire is probably available in an E30 M3. They come up every once in a while on bring a trailer. A recent pristine one, with low miles went a few months ago for $150k. It had been sitting in a dealer's showroom all these years. But others have sold for more reasonable amount.

[CharsadehBEAST]

Naw that's too old, I'm mostly focused on DCT equipped cars as this will be used for my daily commute.

The 135i I took for a spin and was considering buying sold, I'm still on the lookout for another one available locally. If I don't click with it I might start looking into a Mini