Seat Harnesses

[Gdschaf]

What'a the best and safest way to setup harnesses?
I'm guessing running harnesses without an actual racing seat is not recommended?
The issue is, I'm a bigger guy, the seats that I fit into don't fit into the 1 series.
I have thigh bolsters, they're called the center console and the door. Lol
I've seen harness hooked up to the back seats before but isn't that sharp of an angle dangerous?
Is there a bolt in harness bar option?
Sorry for all the questions, I want harness to hold my upper body in place better while on track, but I want to make sure it's done correctly and safely.
Thanks in advance!

[fe1rx]

I am running a Schroth Quickfit Pro Harnessbelt

https://www.schrothracing.com/products/quickfit#3317

https://www.schrothracing.com/docs/B...structions.pdf

They work very well.

[kioneo]

I'll second the Quick Fit Pros. I ran some for a while and they are by far the easiest and safest method. And they'll let you use a HANS.

[Gdschaf]

Sweet! I didn't know there was a legit safe option for our cars that worked with the stock seat! This saves me from trying to jam a seat that fits me into the car.
Thanks!

[jvb6806]

+3 on the quickfits



Pop up the rear seat bottoms and the outer seat belt bolt and I had both of these in the car and ready to go in less than 30 mins. Even better than the ability to safely mount harnesses is how easy it is to swap back to the 3 point for driving home from the track.

I am sure this is a stupid question... but have you tried the pro XL? A buddy of mine had them in his z4 and an am pretty sure they would fit in the 1 series as well. I have some extra room with my pole positions.

[Gdschaf]

I've never heard of the Pro XL, who makes that? I was looking at the Recaro Sportster CS seats. Any seat that has bolsters that aren't completely vertical or perpendicular, I think would work. (If that makes sense) but those seats are quite expensive.

I had these seats in my last car, I didn't have any harnesses but these seats were some of the most comfortable automotive seats I've ever sat in and they hugged me perfectly and felt great around corners.



If I could find a seat like those for the 1er that I could also use harnesses with, I'd be set!

[MightyMouseTech]

If you want to do this properly/safely, not a good idea to run a harness unless you put in a roll bar. Don't want to be stuck upright in a roll over if the roof can collapse.

Many groups won't let you run a harness without it.

[Gdschaf]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

If you want to do this properly/safely, not a good idea to run a harness unless you put in a roll bar. Don't want to be stuck upright in a roll over if the roof can collapse.

Many groups won't let you run a harness without it.

Yeah that would be ideal, there's currently no bolt in option for a roll bar correct?
So I'd have to go through all the work of pulling most of the interior out and get one built. That is something I wanna do in the next couple years. Right now the car is my daily driver and I only do a handful or track events a year. I want that to change over the next couple years. I wanna get more into doing time attack and having this car be a dedicated track car eventually. But, safety is defiantly the highest priority.

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by Gdschaf

Yeah that would be ideal, there's currently no bolt in option for a roll bar correct?
So I'd have to go through all the work of pulling most of the interior out and get one built. That is something I wanna do in the next couple years. Right now the car is my daily driver and I only do a handful or track events a year. I want that to change over the next couple years. I wanna get more into doing time attack and having this car be a dedicated track car eventually. But, safety is defiantly the highest priority.

Then would recommend not using a harness.

You can do what I do. Move the seat back about a inch, put the seatbelt on snug, and give it a quick tug to lock it, then while holding tension on the belt, move the seat forward back into position. Takes some practice to get it right. Will hold tight like a harness, but still allow you to slip out to the side in case of a roll over.

[Gdschaf]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

Then would recommend not using a harness.

You can do what I do. Move the seat back about a inch, put the seatbelt on snug, and give it a quick tug to lock it, then while holding tension on the belt, move the seat forward back into position. Takes some practice to get it right. Will hold tight like a harness, but still allow you to slip out to the side in case of a roll over.

That's not a bad idea, I've never thought of that. I'll give it a try next time I'm about to go on track.

[jvb6806]

Recaro ProfiXL.
https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-3...at/?pdk=AQEBAQ

Yes you should have a cage if you are running harnesses attached to a harness bar... but like you mentioned I don't know of any off the shelf harness bars available for our cars. Walk up and down the autoX grid and count the number of harnesses vs the number of cages. The schroth quickfit harnesses are designed to work with factory seats and supposed to be safe against spinal compression and submarining.

I would guess that most peoples shoulders are not at the perfect height for the harness holes in their seats either. If you are 6' tall the pole positions are a little low.

I drive to the track with my 3 point and race with the harness. I'm pretty confident I am not going to flip in a parking lot. I have never had an issue running my harness and seats w/o a cage at any SCCA events autoX or PDX. But if you are running a wheel to wheel road race event I can see where one would want a cage and a full kit of safety gear. I personally think that is a bit overkill for autoX & PDX.

I did the flip the belt and move the seat forward trick for years with many different cars... it got old pretty quick. Being held into a good seat with a 4/5 harness is much better IMO.

[kioneo]

One thing to think about is that you have to use a harness to use a HANS.

But life is about tradeoffs. The harness may be bad for certain situations (rollovers without a cage/roll bar) but the 3-point may be bad for other situations (e.g. a crash without HANS, considering your helmet has just increased the weight your neck must support). Though one can argue that because the 3-point gives your upper body much more room to move (as opposed to restricting it with a harness), the deceleration is achieved over a longer period meaning the extra weight of the helmet is less of a factor.

Just have to weigh the pros and cons and look at the research.

The guys at HMS Motorsport can provide quite a bit of good info. They do quite a bit in regard to safety gear.

[fe1rx]

Originally Posted by Gdschaf

That's not a bad idea, I've never thought of that. I'll give it a try next time I'm about to go on track.

The cg-lock device accomplishes this better and more consistently.

http://www.cg-lock.com/autocross.html

[fe1rx]

Originally Posted by kioneo

One thing to think about is that you have to use a harness to use a HANS.

But life is about tradeoffs. The harness may be bad for certain situations (rollovers without a cage/roll bar) but the 3-point may be bad for other situations (e.g. a crash without HANS, considering your helmet has just increased the weight your neck must support). Though one can argue that because the 3-point gives your upper body much more room to move (as opposed to restricting it with a harness), the deceleration is achieved over a longer period meaning the extra weight of the helmet is less of a factor.

Just have to weigh the pros and cons and look at the research.

The guys at HMS Motorsport can provide quite a bit of good info. They do quite a bit in regard to safety gear.

I think this is a fair assessment. The ability to run a HANS, and how much easier it is to drive when truly restrained in the seat trump my concern regarding any increased rollover hazard.

The Quikfit Pros are DOT legal for street use, so objecting to them on the track is a logically dubious position. Of course organizers can do whatever they want though. The local BMW Club chapter has "let" me use them when solo but objected to them when I had an instructor in the passenger seat - but that was based on the "equal protection for both occupants" rule, as I didn't have them installed on my passenger seat.

[Dyno Junkie]

Originally Posted by jvb6806

+3 on the quickfits



Pop up the rear seat bottoms and the outer seat belt bolt and I had both of these in the car and ready to go in less than 30 mins. Even better than the ability to safely mount harnesses is how easy it is to swap back to the 3 point for driving home from the track.

I am sure this is a stupid question... but have you tried the pro XL? A buddy of mine had them in his z4 and an am pretty sure they would fit in the 1 series as well. I have some extra room with my pole positions.

I would not use the harness like you have it mounted.
The rear mounting points are too low if you do not have bar work.
Much safer to have the harness parallel to the ground and have it mounted on the rear parcel shelf area.

I don't have a harness on our 135i, but I do in our Monaro.

[kioneo]

As one point of clarification, the picture by jvb6806 shows how the Quick Fits are designed to be mounted. They are specifically meant to attach to the seat belt areas and are designed as such.

You are correct that "normal" harnesses should be mount there, but Quick Fits aren't "normal" harnesses. They are designed to overcome certain practical limitations.

I'm not affiliated with Schroth or HMS Motorsport, but having talked to a number of safety folks prior to purchasing mine, I have faith in what Schroth has engineered.

[jvb6806]

Originally Posted by kioneo

As one point of clarification, the picture by jvb6806 shows how the Quick Fits are designed to be mounted. They are specifically meant to attach to the seat belt areas and are designed as such.

You are correct that "normal" harnesses should be mount there, but Quick Fits aren't "normal" harnesses. They are designed to overcome certain practical limitations.

I'm not affiliated with Schroth or HMS Motorsport, but having talked to a number of safety folks prior to purchasing mine, I have faith in what Schroth has engineered.

Thanks for backing up on this one. They are DOT, they still use the factory charges in the OE buckle connectors, etc. If I had a cage in the car I would 100% have them parallel. But it is an autoX car. I completely understand the reluctance to run harnesses at that angle in a full race car, I wouldn't run them this way either if I had a fully prepped caged race car. But if you are looking for an easy cost effective way to keep you into your seat for autoX, that doesn't affect drivablilty, these are a good option IMO. But to each their own.

I have seen folks hook harnesses up to child seat hooks and that seems worse than having them into the seat belt locations. Neither of them are perfect solutions, or as good as running a full cage, but of the two I feel more comfortable with them in the seat belt locations. A child seat anchor is designed to hold down significantly less weight than the rear belts. But again... to each their own.

I will say though... this thread has got me looking at making a harness bar. Then people will say I should not have fixed back seats and harnesses without a cage (which is true for a race car).

[GoodMoodley]

Originally Posted by fe1rx

I am running a Schroth Quickfit Pro Harnessbelt

https://www.schrothracing.com/products/quickfit#3317

https://www.schrothracing.com/docs/B...structions.pdf

They work very well.

I'm also running these and find them to work quite well and like the OP I am on the larger side.

[beattiecj]

There are a few bolt in roll bars you can purchase for harnesses, like the one below. I'm not an expert but I think this would also work.

https://www.vividracing.com/catalog/...FVVRoCgjXw_wcB

Also a good thread:
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=460080

[fe1rx]

The Quickfit Pro buckle has a bottom receptacle which is compatible with an anti-sub strap. I have had a spare Schroth anti-sub strap here for a while and have finally gotten around to installing it. My intent is not to make the restraint system "safer", but to better secure me in the seat for ease of driving on the track. An anti-sub strap better positions the lap belt and opposes the pull of the shoulder harnesses so that everything can be just a bit tighter.

I removed a couple of existing screws securing the thigh support mechanism and installed my brackets with a couple of AN4 bolts, using a backing plate to distribute any up loads into the profiled bottom tray.

[AndyW]

Originally Posted by fe1rx

The Quickfit Pro buckle has a bottom receptacle which is compatible with an anti-sub strap. I have had a spare Schroth anti-sub strap here for a while and have finally gotten around to installing it. My intent is not to make the restraint system "safer", but to better secure me in the seat for ease of driving on the track. An anti-sub strap better positions the lap belt and opposes the pull of the shoulder harnesses so that everything can be just a bit tighter.

I removed a couple of existing screws securing the thigh support mechanism and installed my brackets with a couple of AN4 bolts, using a backing plate to distribute any up loads into the profiled bottom tray.

]

That set of bolts and metal pieces looks pretty specific...where did you get them? Thx!

[fe1rx]

Originally Posted by AndyW

That set of bolts and metal pieces looks pretty specific...where did you get them? Thx!

I made them. As have race seats now, the brackets and the sub belt are surplus to me now. If you are interested in either, send me a PM.