BMW 1 Series Coupe Forum / 1 Series Convertible Forum (1M / tii / 135i / 128i / Coupe / Cabrio / Hatchback) (BMW E82 E88 128i 130i 135i)
 





 

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-11-2010, 07:46 PM   #67
HondaGoneRogue
They like my Swag...
HondaGoneRogue's Avatar
433
Rep
3,762
Posts

Drives: 15 GSM 435i GC
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: South Dakota

iTrader: (4)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by turner23 View Post
I can't tell if the wall papers are photoshoped...is the white car a hard top vert? Or a coupe with NO sunroof? Any ideas?
It also has Halogens and no Adaptive Xenons. I thought ALL 135's came with AHL.
__________________

2015 435i Gran Coupe - Current
2008 AW 135i - Sold
Appreciate 0
      01-11-2010, 08:00 PM   #68
RPM90
Major General
890
Rep
7,047
Posts

Drives: 340i M-sport AT
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chicago

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwzone View Post
The entire reason I bought my car was the N54.

BMW realized this and now will make you pay for a 335i to get this 3-time engine of the year.

The N55 is a cheaper, lighter motor that will fit the 1 series application well. Glad I got the 1 with the better engine


There is NO reason to think the N55 is not as powerful as the N54 while also being more efficient. It's been tuned to give these benefits.
To me this is the first TRUE modern BMW turbo engine as it incorporates more of BMW's modern engine design than the N54, which is basically the E46 era block with 2 turbo's designed onto it.

And what's with this BS about it being "cheaper"?
That just reads like someone who's trying to win an argument by making a person insult that isn't true.
A twin scroll turbo design is higher tech than a basic small turbo, which is what we have in the N54. The engine is lighter overall due to not needing all the added plumbing the basic little turbos require.
The N55 does require a more sophisticated and better designed exhaust manifold to be able to properly feed a twin scroll turbo.
And finally, the N55 is going to have a very high tech and costly valvetronic system. How does all that translate to "cheap or cheaper"?
And when in the world of auto performance is lighter weight considered a bad thing? You make it seems as if the older tech and heavier N54 is "better" due to those things. Well, I don't agree.
Yet another reason why leasing is a beautiful thing. 2 years from now the N55 will have it's wrinkles ironed out, then, come to daddy.

Last edited by RPM90; 01-11-2010 at 08:18 PM..
Appreciate 0
      01-11-2010, 08:07 PM   #69
Monterra
Captain
Monterra's Avatar
17
Rep
619
Posts

Drives: 15 X1 msport sdrive28
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: HVNY

iTrader: (0)

To be honest I was a bit confused too. My current understanding is that all 35 models will get N55 with basically the same numbers the N54 put out and probably a bit better fuel efficiency. BMW will introduce new range topping is models like the Z4is, 335is and I have a feeling the M1 with a tweaked- 335hp tuned N54. If I'm wrong, I'd appreciate someone in the know shedding light.
__________________
2015 Valencia Msport X1 sdrive28i
2014 Mazda CX-5 AWD gt
Was:
2009 Montego/terra 128i 6MT (ouch)...great car
Appreciate 0
      01-11-2010, 08:12 PM   #70
RPM90
Major General
890
Rep
7,047
Posts

Drives: 340i M-sport AT
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chicago

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monterra View Post
No, I don't, do you have quantitative data that shows otherwise? Valvetronic while I'm sure was costly to DEVELOP is not as costly to PRODUCE vs. one less turbo if I had to bet. Until someone shows me data to the contrary- that is my belief- you can believe what you want. Those of you that think N55 will cost more to produce than N54 because of valvetronic- well I'd say its very highly unlikely that BMW will:
A: See their margins drop because of this engine
B: Would be willing to increase pricing because of this engine to maintain margins (in this environment)
They will however tweak the TT on the Z4is and happily charge you more for it- hmm.
I draw my own conclusions- you can draw yours.
When exactly did making something simpler, less costly, yet better- become a bad or negative thing?
I know....when current 135i TT owners feel like the new engine shouldn't be better than what they already have.

Even if the costs are about equal, which is probably more true, the N55 delivers the same power with slightly better low rpm torque and higher rpm torque, though it's small, it's there. Stock for stock, the N55 gets the nod.
Better fuel economy? N55 gets it again.
Lighter weight up front means better overall handling. N55 again.

What is exactly better about the N54 vs the N55?
Please don't give the very American answer, "It's got MORE turbo's!"
As far as tuning, other than the pro tuners, we just don't know yet.
But, more importantly, most owners don't tune these cars, so it's more important what stock performance can deliver.
A legit concern is whether or not the promise of the N55 will deliver in the 1.
For that, we'll have to stay tuned.
Appreciate 0
      01-11-2010, 08:22 PM   #71
sparoz
Brigadier General
sparoz's Avatar
Australia
191
Rep
4,848
Posts

Drives: VO 1///M; Macan Turbo
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sunshine Coast

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luvmybmw View Post
I also am not an engineer, but found this...

It it better for the turbo-spool up when it is only 3-cylinders that banging into the impeller. 6-cyl it to smooth if you understand what i mean. Why do you think the old Alpina B10 Biturbo had two turbos, and why does the new 335i have two. Toyota Supra, Nissan Skyline and so on.
I have a friend that is working on Saab. He is mapping the turbo engines for them, and he says it is a little bit better to have twin turbo on a strait six engine than just to have one. But like i said, one works good also, but maybe you will have little more lag.

Another thing is if you have one turbo with two intakes... then it is also best to have 3-cylinders in one hole and the other 3 in the other. So just don´t put all cylinders to one pipe.

But of course like you said, it is easier and cheaper to only have one turbo.
It is a twinscroll with 2 intakes each responsible to 3 cylinders each.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mapezzul View Post
Your logic is in this case incorrect. The N55 has better response and spools quicker, while being lighter and more fuel efficient it is a better product for the mainstream consumer. The 1 will premier the DCT in an N55 application.

The N54 Twin Turbo will only remain in performance models- "iS" cars, the reason is that they have already successfully tuned it reliably, the 1 ///M version will be the first tuned N55 and feature two-dual scroll turbos.

It is funny to me writing these posts as people doubted the 1 would get the DCT last week when many of us new it was coming now some are doubting that the 3er will see the DCT with the N54 only.... trust us people!!
+1! However, I do think the N54 might be easier to tune, and BMW now have reliability data to produce more power and hence it is going to the new 3series as a 340i. N55 TT would be reserved for ///Ms - ie S55(?).

Quote:
Originally Posted by turner23 View Post
The upgraded 'hi-fi' system in 2008's (and I assume throgh 2010) is a Harmon Kardon system, it doesn't say HK on the head unit, but HK makes the system.
Looks like HK decided to pay BMW more for advertising or vice versa again - they have always made the upgraded sound system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DBFIU View Post
You are all forgetting, the biggest advantage that the N55 will have over the N54 is not the turbocharger, it's the VALVETRONIC.

Take the perfect valve lift and cam timing and factor that into the equation at every RPM and you have an OPTIMUM design. The turbos are the least of our worries, whats the turbo gonna do? Just boost air pressure, been there done that with the N54.

The valvetronic is the winner in all this, forget about the turbos already.
+1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monterra View Post
Why change the 135 to N55 if they've- "already tuned the N54 reliably"? Cost and CAFE regulations- those are the reasons, don't kid yourself. If you're buying what BMW is selling- that it will have better response that's your right. Stock to stock 6MT 135i- I would bet the N54 car will walk away (or at least edge out) on the N55. I could be wrong, but why would BMW reserve the N54 for the 'performance models' if that weren't the case?
They have data on a uprated N54 without going to the path of TT the N55. I think efficiency is definitely the key, remember we all whinge about how much gas it drinks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwzone View Post
The entire reason I bought my car was the N54.

BMW realized this and now will make you pay for a 335i to get this 3-time engine of the year.

The N55 is a cheaper, lighter motor that will fit the 1 series application well. Glad I got the 1 with the better engine
\

It has a more advance engine block, more electronics - the N55 is definitely going to be more expensive to develop. I believe the N54 going to the more expensive models are only the uprated versions with larger intercooler, fan and more HP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DBFIU View Post
The N54 stock for stock may be the better engine, that is only speculation.

But from a tuning perspective, now that the chip tuners have the opportunity to tune for valve lift, you can kiss the N54 advantage goodbye. You now have complete control over the engine with the valvetronic, there is the advantage.
Interesting, you may be right, but it will be harder to tune even though the potential may be greater.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monterra View Post
No, I don't, do you have quantitative data that shows otherwise? Valvetronic while I'm sure was costly to DEVELOP is not as costly to PRODUCE vs. one less turbo if I had to bet. Until someone shows me data to the contrary- that is my belief- you can believe what you want. Those of you that think N55 will cost more to produce than N54 because of valvetronic- well I'd say its very highly unlikely that BMW will:
A: See their margins drop because of this engine
B: Would be willing to increase pricing because of this engine to maintain margins (in this environment)
They will however tweak the TT on the Z4is and happily charge you more for it- hmm.
I draw my own conclusions- you can draw yours.
No one knows how much each engine is going to cost to produce - in a marketing perspective, I do think at the moment, they can only have a solution at that power spec with the uprated N54. As they do need an advanced engine for the ///M.

As someone was saying before, if it is going to be a twinscroll twin turbo for the current series M1, it would be very interesting how they would route 4 pipes into 6 cylinders. I would say the easiest option is have a standard TT setup.

What might be interesting would be the ///M1 for the next redesign - a twinscroll, twin turbo on a four banger would means each cylinder has its own exhaust. With a much lighter engine... thinking about it, that might not be that bad afterall.
__________________
Macan S Diesel - Carrera White
Macan Turbo - White
1///M - Valencia Orange
Appreciate 0
      01-11-2010, 08:37 PM   #72
Monterra
Captain
Monterra's Avatar
17
Rep
619
Posts

Drives: 15 X1 msport sdrive28
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: HVNY

iTrader: (0)

Hey RPM- never said it was a bad thing- my assumption is its saving them money- maybe not but I bet its not costing them more. The R&D costs for valvetronic tech are long in the past- it debuted in 2001 btw. They did evidently have to develop a new compact version of valvetronic to work in conjunction with the direct injected engine. I'm not a current TT owner- no axe to grind or pride to stroke. Having not yet driven the N55 endowed 1er vs. N54 I can't say what will be better or worse about it. My guess is that the N55 while weighing less, burning less gas will display more lag. If not maybe I'll consider one next time around- or will it be the M1
__________________
2015 Valencia Msport X1 sdrive28i
2014 Mazda CX-5 AWD gt
Was:
2009 Montego/terra 128i 6MT (ouch)...great car
Appreciate 0
      01-11-2010, 08:57 PM   #73
Nicky G
Private First Class
United_States
13
Rep
197
Posts

Drives: 2010 135i (M Sport, Premium)
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Baltimore, MD USA

iTrader: (1)

Well, my 6-week-old N54 2010 135i has gone the way of the dodo, and has a shortened model year to boot. Kind of reminds me of EXACTLY what happened with my 2004 RSX-S, one model year before that engine got tweaked.

Anyway, how do I feel -- pretty good, I got the deal of the century on my 2010, I love it, it loves me, and I knew it wouldn't be the newest model forever. This is a bit sooner than I was expecting, but, I can always through JB+ or BMW Performance Power on this thing, edge out a stock 2011, and still feel good about myself.
Appreciate 0
      01-11-2010, 09:55 PM   #74
nesrevival
First Lieutenant
nesrevival's Avatar
28
Rep
392
Posts

Drives: Z4MC 07'
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: CA

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by imported_pinoy View Post
i still <3 my 2010
yup I love 135i MT more than dct
Appreciate 0
      01-11-2010, 11:18 PM   #75
Robert
Major General
414
Rep
6,968
Posts

Drives: 135i -> is350 -> Tesla M3 perf
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Socal

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
I'm not sure if this was posted before, but here's a comparison between both engines. The first graph shows power graphs, the second graph the response time.

Best regards,
south
I wish BMW addresses that sharp torque decline after 5000. It's like heaven before 5,000 then car feels like someone dropped an anchor yet there's still 2000 more rpm before redline.
Appreciate 0
      01-11-2010, 11:31 PM   #76
DBFIU
Crack Addict
DBFIU's Avatar
United_States
84
Rep
759
Posts

Drives: Fast
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hollywood, Florida

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monterra View Post
No, I don't, do you have quantitative data that shows otherwise? Valvetronic while I'm sure was costly to DEVELOP is not as costly to PRODUCE vs. one less turbo if I had to bet. Until someone shows me data to the contrary- that is my belief- you can believe what you want. Those of you that think N55 will cost more to produce than N54 because of valvetronic- well I'd say its very highly unlikely that BMW will:
A: See their margins drop because of this engine
B: Would be willing to increase pricing because of this engine to maintain margins (in this environment)
They will however tweak the TT on the Z4is and happily charge you more for it- hmm.
I draw my own conclusions- you can draw yours.

Sorry but I disagree with you. A turbocharger is a very simple device, it has one or two moving parts including the wastegate, and is a technology that is tried and true and has been around for years. Mitsubishi turbos are probably cranked out of the factory with no hiccup.

Valvetronic is a complex NEW system, therefore QC (quality control) over every surface, every finish, every mechanism is now scrutinized much more intensively to try and keep it a success. I dont have data either, but I have experience designing turbomachinery for a living as a mechanical engineer. And a turbocharger can be made cheaply with todays process.

Valvetronic on the other hand, that is an impressive peice of machine, not cheap either.

BMW probably pays more for the N55, they offsett his cost by cutting costs elsewhere, they just wont tell you exactly where. Thats whats going on.
__________________
2009 - Titanium Silver - Steptronic - 135i - Nasty
Appreciate 0
      01-12-2010, 12:53 AM   #77
Blader
Lotus Exige ClubRacer
Blader's Avatar
Australia
26
Rep
157
Posts

Drives: MY15 Lotus Exige CR
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Sydney

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2010 E88 125i  [0.00]
BMW have been building valvetronic engines for years. It is not new technology except for its introduction in the USA.

I bought a valvetronic engined BMW over 7 years ago.
__________________
Lotus Exige CR …. Upgraded Stereo, Cruise Control, Rear Parking Sensors, Full carpet kit with sound insulation ..... its a daily driver
Charge Cooled TVS 1900, 3" bi-modal Exhaust, Moroso Sump, LSD, 60l Alloy Tank, Upgraded 2 Piece Rotors, 46mm Nitrons, Harness Bar and Forged Track Wheels with Yokohama AO50 R Specs for play time
Appreciate 0
      01-12-2010, 01:30 AM   #78
1ToBeOn2Wheels
Freude am Fahren
United_States
31
Rep
703
Posts

Drives: B9 Audi S5 Coupe
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Sierra Nevada Foothills, California

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwguy58 View Post
Led Tail Lights Please
+1000!!

I was looking forward to doing an LED tail light retrofit like I did on my 2001 E46 M3 when the 2004's came with a pretty new set of rear lights.
Appreciate 0
      01-12-2010, 04:23 AM   #79
jayely1
Colonel
jayely1's Avatar
223
Rep
2,076
Posts

Drives: 335i
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: New Mexico/Illinois

iTrader: (1)

0 exterior changes?
Appreciate 0
      01-12-2010, 04:47 AM   #80
fun2drv
Lieutenant
fun2drv's Avatar
United_States
260
Rep
558
Posts

Drives: '19 M5 Comp
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Columbia, TN

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2023 BMW M5  [10.00]
2023 BMW M5  [0.00]
If valvetronic is related to VANOS and I think it is, you don't want it in your car. Just take a look at the E46 M3 forums to learn about the $4 to $5K VANOS failures that are popping up all over the place. I have an '04 M3 with 29K miles and already got a VANOS failure code. These do not show up as early as the HPFP issues, but will also be a cause for worries...
Appreciate 0
      01-12-2010, 05:40 AM   #81
ChrisK
Major General
ChrisK's Avatar
United_States
4449
Rep
7,594
Posts

Drives: '19 M2C
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chicagoland

iTrader: (7)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayely1 View Post
0 exterior changes?
That's a good question. My gut tells me we will see slight changes, but who knows.

I hate to get the new M1 to find out the body style completely changes next year.
Appreciate 0
      01-12-2010, 05:41 AM   #82
Blader
Lotus Exige ClubRacer
Blader's Avatar
Australia
26
Rep
157
Posts

Drives: MY15 Lotus Exige CR
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Sydney

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2010 E88 125i  [0.00]
Check the following links -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VANOS

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valvetronic
__________________
Lotus Exige CR …. Upgraded Stereo, Cruise Control, Rear Parking Sensors, Full carpet kit with sound insulation ..... its a daily driver
Charge Cooled TVS 1900, 3" bi-modal Exhaust, Moroso Sump, LSD, 60l Alloy Tank, Upgraded 2 Piece Rotors, 46mm Nitrons, Harness Bar and Forged Track Wheels with Yokohama AO50 R Specs for play time
Appreciate 0
      01-12-2010, 07:15 AM   #83
BForbes
Moderator
BForbes's Avatar
Bahamas
556
Rep
4,240
Posts

Drives: BSM 135i/AW E90 M3
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Orlando, FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisK View Post
That's a good question. My gut tells me we will see slight changes, but who knows.

I hate to get the new M1 to find out the body style completely changes next year.

Chris, the M1 is a 1er "send-off." It will go on sale right beside an all-new designed 1 coupe. Just as the E46 M3 did with the E92 3er's.
__________________
- 04 Honda S2000(gone)
Appreciate 0
      01-12-2010, 09:23 AM   #84
bmwzone
Captain
bmwzone's Avatar
39
Rep
777
Posts

Drives: Black 5.0 (ordered), 135i
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: USA

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2008 135i  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by fun2drv View Post
If valvetronic is related to VANOS and I think it is, you don't want it in your car. Just take a look at the E46 M3 forums to learn about the $4 to $5K VANOS failures that are popping up all over the place. I have an '04 M3 with 29K miles and already got a VANOS failure code. These do not show up as early as the HPFP issues, but will also be a cause for worries...
Give me the two-time global engine of the year N54 twin turbo 135i any day of the week over a cheaper, single turbo N55. I couldn't be happier having the N54 (reason I ordered this car).

Since when does a company release a new engine for a vehicle line with LESS or the same HP? We all know the N54 was under-rated at 306hp. The N55 is 300 and supposedly closer to spec too? Heck 15% is the norm on any new engine replacing another.

N55 = COST SAVINGS FOR BMW with one turbo in the 1 series application.
Appreciate 0
      01-12-2010, 09:58 AM   #85
crew09
Private First Class
United_States
33
Rep
101
Posts

Drives: 2017 540 xdrive
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Pittsburgh

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
It seems to me that the engine has less to do with BMW saving money by reducing the number of turbos, and more with them trying to meet CAFE standards. BMW is trying to save money by meeting CAFE standards. When a car company fails to meet mileage standards for the their entire fleet of vehicles, I'm pretty sure they end up having to pay a penalty on a per car basis. Porsche for instance, has paid this "tax" $4.6 million in 2007 because their model range did not meet CAFE standards. BMW sells far more cars than Porsche and could get hit by a much larger tax as CAFE standards increase.
Appreciate 0
      01-12-2010, 10:44 AM   #86
oasis3582
Lieutenant
oasis3582's Avatar
146
Rep
582
Posts

Drives: 2021 BMW X3 M40i
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Cincinnati, OH

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwzone View Post
Give me the two-time global engine of the year N54 twin turbo 135i any day of the week over a cheaper, single turbo N55. I couldn't be happier having the N54 (reason I ordered this car).

Since when does a company release a new engine for a vehicle line with LESS or the same HP? We all know the N54 was under-rated at 306hp. The N55 is 300 and supposedly closer to spec too? Heck 15% is the norm on any new engine replacing another.

N55 = COST SAVINGS FOR BMW with one turbo in the 1 series application.
They are both rated at 300 hp/300 tq.

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx
__________________
Current: 2021 BMW X3 M40i
Previous: VW GTI, Tesla Model 3 LR, Mazda MX-5 RF, Ford Mustang GT (x2), Mazda 3, BMW Z4 sDrive35i, Acura TSX, BMW 135i, Acura TSX, Honda Accord Coupe V6, Acura RDX, Pontiac GTO 6.0, Pontiac Grand Prix GTP
Appreciate 0
      01-12-2010, 11:01 AM   #87
Monterra
Captain
Monterra's Avatar
17
Rep
619
Posts

Drives: 15 X1 msport sdrive28
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: HVNY

iTrader: (0)

Valvetronic- impressive or not is nearly decade old technology.
They did have to adapt it to be more compact to fit in the N55's head.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valvetronic
__________________
2015 Valencia Msport X1 sdrive28i
2014 Mazda CX-5 AWD gt
Was:
2009 Montego/terra 128i 6MT (ouch)...great car
Appreciate 0
      01-12-2010, 12:28 PM   #88
Mark M
Major
Mark M's Avatar
United_States
240
Rep
1,288
Posts

Drives: E30M3 E83X3 E90335D
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lancaster, PA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by oasis3582 View Post
They are both rated at 300 hp/300 tq.

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx

Oasis....I think what BMWzone was saying is that it is well known here that the N54 really makes more than 300hp even in stock trim. Meaning that BMW purposely underrated the N54 engine. Believe he is speculating that the N55 may be rated at an actual 300hp, thus potentially a lower hp engine than the N54. However, until we get an N54 and an N55 on an independent dyno, this is all just lunchtime conjecture.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:07 PM.




1addicts
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST